Interv PHI 1975-07-11 Press--Spirits in Alien Machines
ANNOUNCER: The following is a press conference,
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
recorded on July 11th, 1975, in Philadelphia.
WOMAN REPORTER: …[splice] the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement
has been what some people would consider sexist
or racist because certain propensities for women and for blacks have been defined,
either by the devotees or by the Vedic scriptures, I’m not sure which.
And I wondered if you would comment on that.
BRAHMĀNANDA: It has been alleged that our movement is
against women and against Negroes because we do not give them… What is it?
Well, not necessarily against them,
but defining inferior roles for them by their natural traits.
Give inferior roles to women and to Negroes.
PRABHUPĀDA: We give equal roles spiritually.
Materially, one man is servant; one man is master.
How you can avoid this?
Do you think everyone will be master, nobody will be servant, materially?
Materially, one is father, one is son, one is master,
one is servant, one is man, one is woman.
How can you stop this?
But spiritually, they are all equal.
What is happening materially is unimportant? [splice]
but when you come to the spiritual platform, then,
when you discern the spirit soul within everyone, that is equal.
That is… Just like you are differently dressed in red shirt;
I am differently… This dress, this difference, must be there.
There are so many men and women.
They are differently dressed.
You cannot say they are all equal by the dress.
But within the dress, the living entities, they are all the same.
We make this distinction: material, not spiritual.
MALE REPORTER (2): [splice] The question would be:
What is it that he has offered
that has turned out such an emotional response today?
He wants to know what you have offered
that has resulted in such
a wonderful emotional response from all the people here.
Because they are being spiritually educated.
We are above material platform;
therefore we have no distinction that one is American, one is Indian,
one is black, one is white.
We have no such distinction.
Everyone is servant of God.
Is that all right?
I know you are very much aware of all the other gurus,
especially that have been coming to the United States in the recent years,
and I wondered if you could explain why it is that you believe
that you have the truth rather than someone else.
Explain?
She wants to know that there are many other gurus,
and why do you feel that you have the truth?
Because we speak the truth.
We don’t give bluff that “I am God. I am this. I am that.” We don’t give.
We are… Actual position: God is great, and we are all servants.
This is our actual position.
How can I say, “I am God?”
So we do not give bluff.
We say the real truth; therefore it appeals.
And if I say something humbug, it will not appeal.
It may act for some time, but it will not endure. [splice]
REPORTER (2): Your celebration is tomorrow:
Of what will that celebration consist?
Celebration? It is remembering Kṛṣṇa, or Lord.
He, with His brother and sister, visited Kurukṣetra, a place in India.
So in memory of that visit we observe this Ratha-yātrā [break] [in car:] …is nice there.
So again the same question was raised.
So reply was all right? Yes.
She was very nice.
What was the question?
That we have distinction between man and woman, black and white.
Materially, there is distinction.
You are differently dressed; I am differently dressed.
But spiritually,
there is no distinction [break]
…sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18].
So a very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, and a dog.
So materially, how they can be equal?
If I say, “The President Ford and a dog is on the same level,” then it will be very nice?
Spiritually, we are one.
That is real observation.
Artificially, to make man and woman equal, that may be artificially your sentiment,
but actually it is not the fact [break] …other university in Philadelphia?
Yes. The University of Pennsylvania.
Oh.
Oh, yes. That… You also visited there in 1965. Yes. Nineteen sixty-five
I came to see one professor, Dr. Norman Brown [?].
When I was at Temple, they told me that you had come.
This was before I had ever heard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
But they told me that you had come the year before I was there.
I went there, and then the year before, you had been there.
And so I took a course with this Swami Nikilananda.
And you had spoken in his class, and they told me that you asked,
“So you are studying Vedānta. So what is Vedānta?”
And no one knew. No one knew what Vedānta meant.
And you said that “Veda means knowledge, and anta means end.
So Vedānta means the end of knowledge, and that is Kṛṣṇa.”
They had never heard that before,
even though they’d had so many hours of courses in Vedānta.
That is the difficulty, that those who are foolish people,
they are taking leading part.
That is the defect of modern civilization.
One who has no knowledge, he is taking the part of a teacher.
So a hodgepodge, must be. He is speaking something hodgepodge.
Just like this, one does not know what is Vedānta, and he is reading Vedānta.
It is very simple truth.
Veda means knowledge, and anta means end.
There must be something, ultimate, goal.
But the modern process is that we go on unlimitedly, but never we come to the end.
Is it not like that?
What do you think? Yes. It’s a fact, no conclusion.
PRABHUPĀDA: Freight[?] motorcar.
It is a graveyard, automobile graveyard.
This is the end of their knowledge.
A pile of junk.
KĪRTANĀNANDA: Building and breaking.
Yes [break] …spent up in breaking and building. That’s all.
That means that there’s passion and there’s ignorance, but there’s no goodness.
Yes.
They do not enquire why breaking and building? Why not permanent?
That question does not arise, and they cannot solve it.
They think this breaking and building is the nature.
But we are giving information of another nature, which there is no breaking,
no building—permanent.
They cannot believe it, that there is such thing. [splice]
That is chewing the chewed.
They never question, “Why breaking and building?
Why not permanent?”
We are doing the same thing with our body.
We are breaking.
As soon as the body is old, we are breaking and accepting another body,
again building.
Again old, again breaking, again entering another… This is going on.
But the question does not arise, “Why?
I don’t like this breaking and building, but why I am put into this condition?”
That is intelligence.
Who wants to die?
No.
Even a very old man—he is suffering from so many things—still, if somebody comes,
“Oh, I will kill you,” he says, “Oh, no, no, no! Don’t kill me.
I don’t want to die.” Why?
If somebody says that “You are old man. There is no use…” Now this is coming.
The Communists, they are coming to that point, “This is an old man, simply eating.
He is not doing anything. So finish him.”
What is called? Mercy…?
Mercy killing. Mercy killing.
It will be merciful if one is killed.
So this is coming.
But the point is that if you have come to show me the mercy of killing,
but I am not prepared to be killed.
Why?
You have come to show me mercy, but I am not prepared to take your mercy.
Why?
What is the psychology?
KĪRTANĀNANDA: No one wants to die.
That is.
So that means he is eternal.
This death is artificial.
Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20].
He does not die. He is not killed.
There is one verse that “If one thinks that ‘I am killer,’ and one thinks,
‘I am killed,’ both of them do not know what is life.”
In the Bhagavad- gītā there is a verse.
So I am eternal. That’s a fact.
Therefore I do not wish to be killed.
But I do not know how to keep myself.
That I do not know.
We are giving that information, how you can keep yourself eternal.
This is the greatest gift to the human society.
He wants to live eternally, but he does not know how to live eternally.
His energy is being spoiled by this skyscraper building construction.
But he is not very serious to construct his body eternal.
He will not be able to live in the skyscraper building.
Maybe he will be allowed to live, to live there as a rat.
There are rats, so many rats.
Actually, this is the fact.
The person who has got very attachment for that place but he is not to live there,
but on account of attachment, thinking of that place at the time of death—
but he is so sinful he cannot be given the human body—
then he is given the cat’s or the rat’s body: “Live here.”
Or a tree or a plant.
So where is the science discussing all this?
Wherefrom the tree has come?
They are satisfied only that “I have now a skyscraper building,”
but do not know that whether he will be allowed to live here.
Vairāgya-vidyā.
These things are being discussed in meeting, in our meeting anywhere.
But they have no brain to understand.
And they don’t want to hear. No.
Caraṇe sarve varṇe kaye [?].
A thief, if you speak to him, “My dear Mr. Thief, it is not very good work.
You will be arrested. You will be punished.
Why you are taking this risk?”
so will he give up stealing?
He knows himself, “Yes, I will be arrested and punished, but still I shall do.”
This is ignorance.
Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com