MW BOM 1975-11-12 Maya and Her Ministers
ANNOUNCER: Next is a morning walk conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
recorded on November 12th, 1975, in Bombay, India. [splice]
“I am Indian.” “I am American.”
More important: “I am a human being and others are lower animals.”
That is the greatest abhimana. No, that is also. Abhimana.
That is also, what is called, false ego.
Human being or animal, they are not different,
because the body is made of the same ingredient.
If you manufacture a dog like a dog, like a man, what is the difference?
The ingredient is the same, earth.
Five bhūtas, pañca-bhūta. Pañca- bhūta So where is the difference?
A man who knows, he will see so many dolls made of earth.
He knows they are all earth.
Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ.
Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad- bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54].
Some of it all, no?
First of all let me, let me understand.
This bodily transformation does not make any difference.
Either it is made like a dog or it is made like a man, it is made from the earth.
So one who knows the ingredient, he does not make any difference.
Because he knows the dog or the man made of the same ingredient.
Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jaya.
First of all the body.
The bodily conscious even… He has come.
Hare Kṛṣṇa.
He has come.
The bodily consciousness is also material.
That is also one.
And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one.
That is ekatvam.
So for a learned person there is no defect.
Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini [?],
paṇḍitaḥ samaḥ [Bg. 5.18] This is the…
So anyone who is under the bodily conception of life,
either human beings or dogs, they are the same.
But that upādhi amongst human being is stronger than the cats and dogs.
The human being, being advanced in consciousness,
they are making this nationalism.
But it is nothing but dogism.
Is it not? That’s all.
The so-called national people are sacrificing so many lives,
so many politicians, Napoleon and these big, big leaders.
But what is their business?
Business is that doggish mentality: “I am this body.”
So it is very difficult to give up this doggish mentality that “I am this body.”
Very, very difficult.
That is ahaṅkāra.
False ahaṅkāra.
Because he is not body, it is false ahaṅkāra.
So śāstra therefore says, bhagavad- bhakti vihinasya jati japas tapaḥ kriya [?].
A person who has not developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness,
for him this advancement of nationality, big work, industry,
so on, so on, so on, jati japas tapaḥ kriya… Kriya [?], these act… DR. PATEL: Activities.
Prabhupāda: What are these?
Apranasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam [?].
It has no value.
But people are enamored by these things,
“I belong to great nation. I am American.
We have got so many industries.
We have got so many cars.”
Attachment.
So it is very difficult.
Sarvo-padhi-vinirmuktam.
One, after becoming completely freed from all these false designations,
to become a devotee is very, very difficult.
There is no education.
Sarva-bhavena, from all sides and from all degrees. It is very difficult.
So we are dealing with very, very difficult task.
It is not very easy, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Naturally we have got attraction for God.
That is spiritual kingdom.
Just like Vṛndāvana.
Vṛndāvana means center is Kṛṣṇa.
The elderly person like Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśoda, their friends, their…,
they are also attracted to Kṛṣṇa.
The gopīs are attracted to Kṛṣṇa, the cowherds boys, they are attracted to Kṛṣṇa.
The cows, calves, animals and peacock— everyone is attracted to Kṛṣṇa.
The water is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana.
And here in the material world nobody is attracted by Kṛṣṇa.
Who prevents them, sir? Māyā.
Prabhupāda: No.
He wanted this; therefore māyā is there.
Dr. Patel: So that their position may go on. Police is not first.
First you become a thief; then police is there,
not that police comes and arrest you unnecessary. No.
As soon as you become criminal, then police comes and arrest you.
māyā comes next.
If you give up your natural attraction for Kṛṣṇa,
if you are attracted by this material enjoyment, then māyā is there.
Again if you try to… DR. PATEL: But material, all material, is made up of māyā.
No, no. Nothing is made by māyā. Māyā is made by God.
And material is, nothing but the transformation of māyā, is it not? No. No.
Māyā means something false.
Nobody makes anything.
Everything is made by… Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ.
Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything.
māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa.
So just like government creates police department.
But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God.
The police department is creation of government.
Similarly, māyā’s business is to capture, arrest the criminal
who has gone against God, capture him.
Mūḍha janmani janmani [Bg. 16.20]. Mam aprapyaiva.
This is the arrangement.
Nobody is independent. Everything.
Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma [?].
So māyā is also Brahman.
Māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma [?].
Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God.
Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā.
So how māyā can be… The difference is police cannot arrest the president.
Now it has been proved in the law.
The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law.
That is good judgment.
If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well.
So this judgment is very nice.
Therefore in English constitution the first word is “The king can do no wrong.”
You cannot accuse king of doing wrong.
Whatever he does, it is all right.
Dr. Patel: That is when there was Rāma-rajya, sir.
These modern fellows will talk all these things… PRABHUPĀDA: No, no, no. No, no.
Rāma-rajya should be there
as far as possible. Dr. Patel: They are roguish fellows.
Just like Nixon. What did he do? Was it in the place of king?
No, no, he… Nixon, Nixon… Dr. Patel: Most powerful nation
of the world having a leader of the type of Nixon.
So that is… Of course,
in American constitution the president is also impeached.
Is it the law?
Yes. This is the first president who was impeached,
during all the times. Prabhupāda: But that is not very good law.
That is not very good law.
If the president also can be impeached, that is not very good law.
Sir, if the government is made according to the rule
and regulations established by our religions,
then that president or the king is above law.
Otherwise these fools must be within law.
But the way they have been ruling the countries and ransacking
the people’s morals and material… Prabhupāda: No, no.
Anyone, anyone who is within law, he cannot be president.
Dr. Patel: But these are within the law, president.
These are the artificial constitutions made up,
not the constitution as given by Vedas and Vedic religions.
Then king or president is above law—
to my mind. I may be wrong. I am open to correction.
Therefore we want rājarṣi.
We don’t want ordinary king.
Then it is all right.Rājarṣi.
Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Dr. Patel: Ah, those rājarṣis.
A king like Janaka.
No, everyone should be rājarṣi.
Otherwise he has no power to become king.
He should be rejected.
There are instances. Just like Vena Mahārāja.
He was not rājarṣi, so he was killed by the brāhmaṇas: “Get down.”
There are instances.
Then Pṛthu Mahārāja became king.
Pṛthu was the incarnation of God. Prabhupāda: Yes.
So king is supposed to be representative of God if not incarnation.
That’s right. Then he is above law. Yes. Because God is above law.
But these people are representatives of the foolish, ignorant majority,
and majority is made up of fools.
Wise people are few.
That is the difficulty.
Jaya.
Fools’ paradise. Eh? That’s right.
We are living in fools’ paradise.
If the whole today universe was governed as it is ordained
by Vedas and Vedic philosophy and laws,
there would not have been any difficulty for us.
But from time immemorial,
even in the very place of the cradle of Vedic civilization,
there were all these types of
wars and [Hindi] and daityas and devas and all these things.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
I have got some… [break]
Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only remedy
to make everyone the first-class human being.
Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇair tatra samasate suraḥ [?].
Hare Kṛṣṇa.
If you want to qualify the human society with all good qualities,
then bhagavad-bhakti is the only means.
Otherwise not.
That is correct sir. Man- manā bhava mad-bhakto [?].
Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66].
So unfortunately nobody is interested.
This is the only remedy, and nobody is interested.
Rather, they will put blocks in the progress.
Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com