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MW BOM 1975-11-19 Everyone Knows Your Philosophy
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ANNOUNCER: The following is
a morning walk conversation
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on the 19th of November
1975, in Bombay, India. [splice]
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Yes, Sunday, the sun is
the center, and I mean,
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that is, I recall, first sun, and
then Monday is next day,
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then Tuesday, which is next to the
earth, and Wednesday next to the sun.
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Then sun is first, then moon.
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But they say moon
is first, then sun.
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Who says?
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The scientists. No. Yes.
They say the moon is…
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DR. PATEL: So far the
distance is concerned,
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moon may be nearest.
How it is, that?
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It is so, sir.
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Huh?
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Our science says so.
Your science may not.
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And we don’t want to
clash the sciences here.
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Let us talk about
philosophy. [laughs]
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Jump over.
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Chandra is the upagraha, isn’t it?
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As guru has got many such grahas.
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It is one of the celestial planets.
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And they say there is no life.
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It is not self-luminous.
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All grahas are not self-luminous.
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When we observe in the sky,
those stars are bleeping like this.
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The grahas are straight as that,
the Sukra behind us,
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just steady light. [break]
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…philosophy is also incorrect,
there is no life after death.
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Who says so?
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Oh, so many, all Westerners.
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The Easterns… That
does not mean…
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The Eastern philosophy is only with the jāgrati stage.
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But the jīva has got three stages, and the fourth stage,
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the turīya stage, is the real stage that we understand.
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They don’t have idea
of it, unfortunately.
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So that philosophy is not
the real philosophy of life.
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Life as a whole should
have its own philosophy.
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They don’t understand that there is anything beyond
the jāgrati stage.
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But then there is a svapna stage, there
is a sleep stage and the turīya stage.
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In that if I am wrong
you may correct me, sir.
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You cannot be corrected.
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I cannot be wrong, say that.
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No, I cannot correct you.
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You?
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You cannot be correct…? Why
I should not be corrected?
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Because the philosophy must encompass
the whole life, not a part of it.
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All Western philosophers, only
except Schopenhauer and Eckhart,
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they only thought
about the waking stage.
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They have never thought about the
dream and the deep sleep stage
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and the stage beyond the three.
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None of them, excepting
Eckhart of Germany.
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So the Western
philosophers are all wrong
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or partially true [break]
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The Western philosophers have never
thought about the three other stages,
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none of them. [break]
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…philosophy rejects any
philosophy based on thinking.
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But you see thinking is an apparatus
which takes you beyond thinking.
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That is another.
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That takes you beyond thinking.
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You cannot go beyond thinking
without thinking to be taken as a fact.
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But thinking must be
intelligent thinking. [splice]
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under the direction of intelligence. Buddhi [splice]
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are separate arrangement,
although they are one.
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They are the different
facets of the same
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internal organ as a whole.
[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya [break]
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…set is there, but beyond that
mental stage there is intellect.
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Beyond intellect there is soul.
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To go beyond intellect
for a body conscious ego,
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the ego must dissolve and find itself to be a jīva,
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and then he travels further
up to find his own identity
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and his own relation with God.
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Before, I mean, mind is one,
you cannot go beyond it.
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That is what my conjecture.
I may be wrong for all that.
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One has to go beyond the
mind, but those who are
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stuck up with the
mind, they are useless.
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So the Western philosophers,
they are stuck up with the mind.
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That is the defect [break]
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…bhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā
mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [?].
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Manorathena, mental
concoction, asataḥ.
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Western philosophers, they take the
mind as the soul [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
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Hm? Yes.
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And the Communists think even the
matter is more important than the mind.
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What do you call?
Dialectical materialism,
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that the matter
produces consciousness.
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It is not the consciousness which,
I mean, collects matter around it.
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That is their philosophy.
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That is this dialectical materialism.
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They are absolutely wrong.
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They are even further down
than the Western philosophers,
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mental philosophers.
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[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa [break]
…is already mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā.
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Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ
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manaḥ manasas tu parā buddhir… [Bg. 3.42].
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Buddhi tu… Paraṁ buddhva [?]? [splice]
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That mind has to… I mean, isn’t
it out for itself that it is false?
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That comes to that. Not false.
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I mean false so far as
higher category is concerned, the jīva.
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Nothing is false, but
there are different steps.
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One step is important than the
other, but they are not false.
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Just like the water, the sand,
then earth, then the building.
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You cannot construct
a building here.
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So these are different
stages of reality.
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[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
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…is taken from the earth.
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There is no doubt about it.
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Why the scientists cannot take?
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This is a fact, that there is aroma,
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and the flower has taken
the aroma from the earth.
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But why the scientists cannot take?
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They can make
chemicals, the flavors.
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They can make flavors,
aromas, from chemicals.
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As good?
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No [laughter]
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: They make a
flavor and then say it’s a rose flavor.
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That is also not all kinds of flavors.
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: I think if
they want to produce rose flavor
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they must use the roses
somehow or other.
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I don’t think they can just produce.
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GOPĀLA KṚṢṆA:
They use a little bit.
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: Yes.
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They must use.
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They are taking
chemicals, making flavor,
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and the flower is coming
out without any chemical.
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So who is more artist,
better artist? [break]
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…they will wilt and die.
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Hm?
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These flowers, they
will wilt and die,
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but they can make flowers that
will not die, will not wilt [laughter]
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Of course, they have no smell.
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Therefore they make without smell [break]
…earth is this side and moon is this side,
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then which is first?
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Both of them are both sides.
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The sun is larger in the sky, so that
means it is nearer to the earth?
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Yes. Should be.
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Because you calculate about
the stars, very, very far away.
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Is it not? Oh, yes.
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Then which is smaller
is far away [break]
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YAŚOMAT-NANDANA: …systems
are bigger than the smaller ones?
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Hm?
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The upper planetary systems,
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are they bigger than
the lower ones?
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sun is bigger than the
earth, the moon is bigger…
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PRABHUPĀDA: Yes, there
is measurement [break]
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JAYAPATAKA: Some
people say that
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“You are coming to India for
preaching, but we Indians,
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we already know all the,
about Kṛṣṇa and Rāma.
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Why don’t… You should be preaching in
the West, where the people don’t know.”
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But you know from
the Western people.
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They are not… They are
imitating Western people.
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You know from the
Western people;
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therefore you have to learn from
this Western people this also.
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They are learning everything
else from the Western people,
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so why not… PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
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ŚRĪDHARA: Everyone in India knows the līlā of Kṛṣṇa,
but the science of Kṛṣṇa,
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that they have forgotten.
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They know līlā of Kṛṣṇa but they do not know Kṛṣṇa.
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Huh? Who was…?
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You were telling that Mr. Bajaj, he wants to
take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa without Kṛṣṇa.
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Yes.
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Then how you will take this
instruction when Kṛṣṇa says,
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man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]?
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If they do not take Kṛṣṇa, then
how this instruction will be taken?
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It can’t be.
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Well, rasa-līlā is more important than those instructions
[Prabhupāda laughs]
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: Actually,
the real scholars of Bhagavad-gītā,
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they admit that later on this Bhagavad-gītā came out,
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which was stressing more on bhakti.
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Later on. Later on.
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These scholars, these mundane scholars,
those who have studied Bhagavad-gītā,
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they accept that Bhagavad-gītā
is based around bhakti principle.
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So how it came later on?
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: That
they are rascal. That they don’t.
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And what was the beginning?
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All these Vedas and everything.
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No, bhagavad-gītā? They say, “later on.”
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Who was the first…
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: He
says that it was the Vaisnavites
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who introduced Bhagavad-gītā.
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Then why Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā?
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He is not a Vaiṣṇava.
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
That they cannot answer.
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PRABHUPĀDA:
Then they’re foolish.
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
That they cannot answer.
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Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā.
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Śaṅkarācārya accepted
Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord.
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Sa bhagavān svaya kṛṣṇaḥ [?].
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He has written… YAŚOMATĪ-
NANDANA: It is like that.
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They think that Śaṅkarācārya also liked Bhagavad-gītā,
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but the personal Kṛṣṇa
was not very important.
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No. According to his bhāṣya, they think like that.
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No, he has written
many prayers on Kṛṣṇa.
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Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ
bhaja govindaṁ mūḍhā-mate [?].
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That means those who are not worshiping Govinda,
they are mūḍhā-mati.
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He is addressing mūḍhā-mati: “You rascal…”
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
This verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda,
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vāsudeva sata devam, is also written by him?
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Huh?
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Vasudevaṁ-sutaṁ devaṁ kaṁsa-cāṇūra-mardanam
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devakī paramānandaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ vande jagat-gurum [?].
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Maybe, but I do not know.
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Because they say, these
mundane scholars,
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that Bhāgavata was
after Śaṅkarācārya
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because he did not write a
commentary on Bhāgavata.
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Because there’s a mention of Kaṁsa
and Cāṇūra and Vasudeva and Devakī,
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that means that Śaṅkarācārya did
believe in the personal of Kṛṣṇa.
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But Vedavyāsa is
after Śaṅkarācārya?
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They don’t accept it is
written by Vedavyāsa.
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Huh?
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They don’t… They are
such atheistic people,
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they do not accept that it
is written by Vedavyāsa.
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That’s all right, but
others accept it.
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Yes, the vast people do accept.
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Vedavyāsa is accepted
by Śaṅkarācārya.
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Vyāsadeva. Vyāsa-guru.
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They think that some Vaiṣṇava wrote
it and put the name of Vedavyāsa.
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They are so demoniac.
Yes, they say like that.
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Then other ācāryas, they are also fools?
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I think they place all the other ācāryas after Śaṅkarācārya.
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Ācāryas… But their
paramparā system is very old
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…Bhagavad-gītā? No.
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
They don’t accept it as…
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They do not accept Gītā as spoken by
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some person Kṛṣṇa five
thousand years ago.
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Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā or not?
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They say it’s a very nice
book of knowledge.
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They don’t want to
pursue spiritual life.
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Then why they become authority?
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
Yes, that is their rascaldom.
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If they do not accept authority,
why they become authority?
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Who will accept them?
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If everything is depending
on mental speculation,
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then why they should be
accepted as authority?
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YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
That they cannot answer.
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Only insincere people, foolish
people, they are misled by them.
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Otherwise I don’t think anybody
even knows their philosophy.
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Everyone knows your philosophy
because they see your disciples,
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and no one goes
to read their books.
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Mostly I see in their books, “First
edition, copies, two thousand,”
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“three thousand,”
something like that.
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And you never see a
second edition.
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Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com