MW CHI 1975-07-04 Scientists Controlling Nature--That --etc
ANNOUNCER: The following is a morning walk conversation,
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
recorded on the 4th of July, 1975, in Chicago, Illinois.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: We’ve been reading in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, that,
there’s a statement that when Caitanya Mahāprabhu
took prasādam at the house of Advaita Ācārya,
there’s a verse quoted from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam
that a sannyāsī should not leave anything.
When he’s taking his meals he should not leave anything on the plate.
But sometimes we have heard in the past
that a sannyāsī should leave something on the plate.
PRABHUPĀDA: No.
Sometimes a guru leaves some remnant to [be] taken by the disciple.
That is meant for the disciple.
Ordinarily they shouldn’t.
SATSVARŪPA: One temple—St. Louis temple—has come to this festival,
and they brought with them their installed Deities which are Gaura-Nitāi.
I wasn’t sure that was right of them to do that.
And They’re now on the altar of the Chicago temple,
but the Deities are not in the St. Louis temple.
- Gaura… - That is closed?
They left one man there.
Better to keep the temple open with the Deities there or can the…?
No, no; when there is Deity, it must be taken care of.
They should not be transported to another temple?
- There is no harm. DEVOTEE: No harm.
May the temple be: Only one man left?
Why? If there is no Deity, what is the use of keeping one man?
[It is] meant for the Deity, not for man. [break]
We get so much description of the sky and planets, but they had no observatory.
How it was possible? [break]
…they can see with the observatory? [break]
VIṢṆUJANA: …see it themselves, Prabhupāda.
They don’t want to just read it in books, they say.
So what they will see? That is my question.
With these limited eyes?
But they say that even what they can’t see, it’s more of the same.
Huh?
They’ve made some conclusion by their mathematics as to what they can see.
Whatever they can’t see, it’s still more of the same: Material sky and planets.
- There’s nothing beyond it. - Seeing and not seeing: The same thing?
That it means you see or not see…
Is that mean: That seeing or not seeing?
This is contradictory.
Either you see or you don’t see.
These are two things.
But what is this “I see; I don’t see.”
For that, they spend millions of dollars on a telescope.
And just see: That which is impossible, they are trying for that.
punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]
Chewing the chewed; that’s all.
When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see?
Whatever you see, that is imperfect.
So what is the meaning of seeing?
Therefore our seeing is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt:
“We should see through the authorized scriptures.”
That is our…
You will see on the description of Śukadeva Gosvāmī of the whole universe.
Conclusion—Śukadeva Gosvāmī: “So far I have described as I have heard.”
He never says, “As I have seen.”
This is required. [break]
We believe in the creation.
And others also, just like Christians, they also believe God created.
But [indistinct] where seen: God is creating?
Who has seen?
Simply hear from God.
He says, “I have created;” that’s all.
But if you [challenge]: “I have not seen that You have created; neither I have seen You.”
Then how can you believe?
God says, “I have created,” so those who are God believers: They will accept that.
So what is the use of seeing again? Observatory?
We trust in God, but don’t trust in His word.
This is going on.
You write in America, “We trust in God,” but don’t trust in His word.
Just see.
If God you trust, then whatever God says, you believe.
“No, that we cannot do.”
This is the [indistinct]. [break]
Kṛṣṇa is so opulent, why did He appear
in the form of Lord Caitanya in such a poor village atmosphere?
That is His opulence.
Here, the material man, if he is rich man, he cannot become a poor man.
That means he is lacking that opulence.
aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.20]
He can become the bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest.
That is opulence.
You cannot manufacture a mosquito.
You can manufacture a 747, but manufacture a mosquito.
Then we shall know your science.
…the same machine.
Otherwise how it is flying?
So imperfect you are, that what are the machine there?
And you are proud of seeing? Nonsense.
See the machine, where it is there, how the mosquito is flying.
- One mosquito can produce many mosquitos. - Yes.
Everything is there complete.
BRAHMĀNANDA: It doesn’t crash either. - No.
And still, these rascals, believing their eyes.
What is the meaning of your eyes?
You see, study mosquito.
Not only mosquito, you will find at night I see a small insect,
less than the magnitude of [indistinct].
The same machine is there.
Now see what is the machine there if you have such eyes.
Huh; what is their answer?
“In future.”
Just see.
In future they will be able.
- {They] will say that nature has created such a… - Then nature is greater than you.
Then you are rascal.
You have to accept, somebody is greater than you.
He knows; you do not know.
Learn from him.
They say that they can control nature.
Again foolishness.
That irritates me; when they speak like that rascal, that irritates me.
Therefore I simply call them rascal. [break]
harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇaḥ [?]
They are claiming very, very, big man,
but as soon as they see that he is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we reject:
“And he’s a foolish.” [break]
There is… That is a fact, one case was going on, and the judge was dozing, like that.
So his clerk warned, “Sir, you are dozing.
Big, big lawyers, they are talking.”
“Let these rascals go on talking.
I have already concluded… what judgment I shall give.
Let them…” So our is like that.
We don’t hear these rascals; our judgment is already there: They are rascals; that’s all.
Let them talk whole day and night.
He said [indistinct]…
The judge said to the clerk that “I have already made my judgment,
so let these foolish men go on talking.” [break]
…minister of Orissa: He has promised a land in Jagannātha Purī.
So if we get that land, is it not possible to construct another Jagannātha temple?
We lend the American money here.
Don’t let us use that Jagannātha Purī, we have to make another one.
Yes.
Jagannātha will come to our temple.
Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com