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MW CHI 1975-07-04 Scientists Controlling Nature--That --etc
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ANNOUNCER: The following is
a morning walk conversation,
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on the 4th of July,
1975, in Chicago, Illinois.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: We’ve been reading in
the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, that,
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there’s a statement that
when Caitanya Mahāprabhu
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took prasādam at the
house of Advaita Ācārya,
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there’s a verse quoted from
the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam
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that a sannyāsī should
not leave anything.
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When he’s taking his meals he should
not leave anything on the plate.
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But sometimes we
have heard in the past
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that a sannyāsī should leave
something on the plate.
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PRABHUPĀDA: No.
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Sometimes a guru leaves some
remnant to [be] taken by the disciple.
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That is meant for the disciple.
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Ordinarily they shouldn’t.
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SATSVARŪPA: One temple—St. Louis
temple—has come to this festival,
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and they brought with them their
installed Deities which are Gaura-Nitāi.
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I wasn’t sure that was
right of them to do that.
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And They’re now on the
altar of the Chicago temple,
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but the Deities are not
in the St. Louis temple.
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- Gaura…
- That is closed?
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They left one man there.
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Better to keep the temple open
with the Deities there or can the…?
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No, no; when there is Deity,
it must be taken care of.
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They should not be
transported to another temple?
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- There is no harm.
DEVOTEE: No harm.
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May the temple be:
Only one man left?
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Why? If there is no Deity, what
is the use of keeping one man?
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[It is] meant for the Deity,
not for man. [break]
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We get so much description of the sky
and planets, but they had no observatory.
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How it was possible? [break]
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…they can see with the
observatory? [break]
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VIṢṆUJANA: …see it
themselves, Prabhupāda.
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They don’t want to just
read it in books, they say.
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So what they will see?
That is my question.
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With these limited eyes?
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But they say that even what they
can’t see, it’s more of the same.
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Huh?
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They’ve made some conclusion by their
mathematics as to what they can see.
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Whatever they can’t see, it’s still more
of the same: Material sky and planets.
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- There’s nothing beyond it.
- Seeing and not seeing: The same thing?
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That it means you see or not see…
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Is that mean: That
seeing or not seeing?
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This is contradictory.
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Either you see or you don’t see.
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These are two things.
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But what is this “I see; I don’t see.”
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For that, they spend millions
of dollars on a telescope.
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And just see: That which is
impossible, they are trying for that.
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punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
[SB 7.5.30]
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Chewing the chewed; that’s all.
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When your senses are imperfect,
then what you will see?
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Whatever you see,
that is imperfect.
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So what is the meaning of seeing?
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Therefore our seeing
is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt:
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“We should see through
the authorized scriptures.”
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That is our…
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You will see on the description of
Śukadeva Gosvāmī of the whole universe.
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Conclusion—Śukadeva Gosvāmī: “So
far I have described as I have heard.”
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He never says, “As I have seen.”
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This is required. [break]
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We believe in the creation.
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And others also, just like Christians,
they also believe God created.
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But [indistinct] where
seen: God is creating?
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Who has seen?
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Simply hear from God.
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He says, “I have created;” that’s all.
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But if you [challenge]: “I have not seen that
You have created; neither I have seen You.”
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Then how can you believe?
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God says, “I have created,” so those who
are God believers: They will accept that.
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So what is the use of
seeing again? Observatory?
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We trust in God, but
don’t trust in His word.
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This is going on.
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You write in America, “We trust in
God,” but don’t trust in His word.
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Just see.
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If God you trust, then whatever
God says, you believe.
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“No, that we cannot do.”
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This is the [indistinct]. [break]
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Kṛṣṇa is so opulent,
why did He appear
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in the form of Lord Caitanya in
such a poor village atmosphere?
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That is His opulence.
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Here, the material man, if he is rich
man, he cannot become a poor man.
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That means he is
lacking that opulence.
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aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān
[Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.20]
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He can become the bigger than the
biggest and the smaller than the smallest.
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That is opulence.
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You cannot manufacture
a mosquito.
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You can manufacture a 747,
but manufacture a mosquito.
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Then we shall know your science.
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…the same machine.
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Otherwise how it is flying?
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So imperfect you are, that
what are the machine there?
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And you are proud
of seeing? Nonsense.
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See the machine, where it is
there, how the mosquito is flying.
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- One mosquito can produce many mosquitos.
- Yes.
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Everything is there complete.
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BRAHMĀNANDA: It doesn’t crash either.
- No.
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And still, these rascals,
believing their eyes.
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What is the meaning of your eyes?
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You see, study mosquito.
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Not only mosquito, you will
find at night I see a small insect,
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less than the magnitude
of [indistinct].
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The same machine is there.
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Now see what is the machine
there if you have such eyes.
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Huh; what is their answer?
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“In future.”
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Just see.
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In future they will be able.
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- {They] will say that nature has created such a…
- Then nature is greater than you.
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Then you are rascal.
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You have to accept,
somebody is greater than you.
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He knows; you do not know.
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Learn from him.
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They say that they
can control nature.
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Again foolishness.
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That irritates me; when they speak
like that rascal, that irritates me.
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Therefore I simply call
them rascal. [break]
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harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇaḥ
[?]
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They are claiming
very, very, big man,
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but as soon as they see that he is
not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we reject:
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“And he’s a foolish.” [break]
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There is… That is a fact, one case was going
on, and the judge was dozing, like that.
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So his clerk warned,
“Sir, you are dozing.
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Big, big lawyers, they are talking.”
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“Let these rascals go on talking.
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I have already concluded…
what judgment I shall give.
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Let them…” So our is like that.
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We don’t hear these rascals; our judgment
is already there: They are rascals; that’s all.
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Let them talk whole day and night.
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He said [indistinct]…
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The judge said to the clerk that “I
have already made my judgment,
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so let these foolish men
go on talking.” [break]
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…minister of Orissa: He has
promised a land in Jagannātha Purī.
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So if we get that land, is it not possible
to construct another Jagannātha temple?
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We lend the American
money here.
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Don’t let us use that Jagannātha
Purī, we have to make another one.
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Yes.
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Jagannātha will
come to our temple.
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