MW LA 1976-06-03 Death and Dreams
ANNOUNCER: Next is a morning walk conversation,
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
recorded on June 3rd, 1976, in Los Angeles.
RĀMEŚVARA: Yesterday you were explaining in your garden
to that priest that Kṛṣṇa… He says… Kṛṣṇa says, “I am the father of all living entities.”
And you were saying, “Who can challenge this or deny it?”
Now someone can say that there is contradiction,
if there is some contradiction in Kṛṣṇa’s statement, therefore [indistinct]…
PRABHUPĀDA: Who can contradict this? That… That is my challenge.
The contradiction is not valid.
Who can contradict it?
That is my challenge.
Well, ah… Say, in some philosophy…
Just like a father:
A real father can say, “I am the father.”
Who can challenge?
Father is one.
Who can? Nobody can say “No, you are not father; he’s father;” no.
The real father is father.
Father cannot be replaced.
- No. - Yes.
Suppose real father says, “I am the father of this boy.”
Who will challenge it?
- Someone who does not believe my father. - That… That means he’s a rascal.
But father cannot be changed.
He does not know; he challenges; that’s all.
How the father can be changed?
Father is one.
We say that Kṛṣṇa is all good.
Yes.
And then the materialist says,
“If Kṛṣṇa is all good, then how is there any evil?”
Evil is you.
- But everything comes from Kṛṣṇa. - Yes.
Everything comes from…. Yes.
If… You have created a situation.
So, for your satisfaction, Kṛṣṇa has given you the chance, but that is evil:
What you have created.
But I have this propensity because I am part of Kṛṣṇa.
Yes.
When [you] come under māyā, you have got so many propensities.
As soon as you disobey Kṛṣṇa, the māyā is there.
kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare [nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare] [Prema-vivarta]
Immediately.
Just like darkness and light.
As soon as you give up light, you come to darkness.
There is no second alternative.
Kṛṣṇa is the friend of everyone.
- Yes. - So why does He allow me
- to have this independence? - No, that is His….
Why not?
- Because it is not good for me. - Then… Then…
Then you are not perfectly Kṛṣṇa’s aṁśa.
Kṛṣṇa has got independence.
You see one son is born, even a father has got a black spot here,
sometimes the son has a black…
But if it’s not good for me, if I will misuse it,
- why would Kṛṣṇa give it to me anyway? - Yes, therefore the demand is
“You surrender, rascal; you are suffering; you surrender.
That is your good…”
Therefore He comes.
He loves His sons:
“You rascals, why you are creating plans?
Come here!
Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ… [Bg. 18.66];
I shall give you all comfort.”
Kṛṣṇa knows everything in the past,
- and everything in the future. - Yes.
So when Kṛṣṇa… Kṛṣṇa knows that I will misuse my independence.
But still He gives me independence.
That is Kṛṣṇa’s mercy.
- Even though it is bad for me. PUṢṬA KṚṢṆA: Hey wait…
You say Kṛṣṇa knows that you are going to misuse your independence?
Because He knows everything [splice] and everything in the future.
So He must… Kṛṣṇa is all… all-knowing.
This [indistinct] future, means that I… Just like a father knows the… how the child is.
Now if the… the child changes, and touches the fire:
That Kṛṣṇa knows it will burn.
He knew, when the child did not touch the fire, his future.
And when he touched the fire, Kṛṣṇa knew the result.
So He always knows.
His position is to know the future; He’s always….
Now you are changing; what is the future, due to our little independence?
So can you actually say that Kṛṣṇa knows if you’ll misuse your independence?
He knows if you… if you misuse your independence what will happen,
- but can it be actually said that… - Yes.
- He knows you will definitely misuse… - Yes, yes.
- If you use your independence properly. It’s up to you. - Yes.
It’s up to you.
Then it limits Kṛṣṇa; if you say that Kṛṣṇa does not know
- No, no. - when I will misuse my ind….
- or if I will… - That… That…
That means you do not know what is the independence.
You can…
You can change your position at any time.
That is your independence.
But doesn’t Kṛṣṇa know if I will do it?
Yes, because you are independent.
That is the meaning.
Marginal.
What will the….
That will depend on… And the result He knows.
As a lawyer knows that he has done this—criminal: He’ll be punished like this.
So His position to know the future is always there.
Either in this condition or other condition.
- But the lawyer doesn’t… - Why Kṛṣṇa? Everyone knows.
Suppose you have got this body; next body he’s a dog.
I can say you’ll bark.
Yes.
What you’ll do?
That’s all.
What to speak of Kṛṣṇa; I can say.
If you…
That was Satsvarūpa’s question: Satsvarūpa Mahārāja’s question.
No, this is the answer.
Kṛṣṇa’s position is always the same.
He knows past, present and… [splice]
BHARADVĀJA: Yesterday you gave an example
of a man who was lying asleep in bed, and he is transported somewhere in dream,
walking on the beach.
What is the full…
’Cause we’re… we’re going to try to make an… an exhibit of it.
So what… what is the full analogy?
Is he actually going to a… Is he actually going to another place by his mind?
- He’s actually transported? - The soul is going there.
- Actually… - The seer is the same.
This gross body or in the subtle body.
I am in the… Walking in this gross body, I’m seeing the ocean,
and I leave my gross body… I… In dream, I go to India.
So the seer is the same.
- That is the proof of transmigration. - Hmm.
He’s dreaming tiger, and he’s… and he’s crying, “Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger,”
and another man who is seer of the body: He says, “Where is tiger?”
So, this is the difference.
One is seeing through this gross body; another seeing through the
- Subtle body. - subtle body.
- But the seer is the same. [break] - Hm.
[Transmigration] of the soul means, when he’s seeing through….
That is practical; the child:
When he’s seeing through the childish body, he’s talking nonsense.
The same soul, when he’s talking as a elderly person, he’s talking [indistinct].
The seer is the same; simply the glass is changed.
Sometimes blue; sometimes red. [break]
Huh?
Why not?
The seer is the same; medium is different.
That you have… [break]
Dead body means the seer is no longer there.
It has entered another body. [break]
PRADYUMNA: When someone is sleeping and dreaming:
- That the seer has left the gross body? - Yes, yes.
How the… Life symptoms: How are the life symptoms maintained in the body?
- Huh? Huh? - The life symptoms are maintained in the body still?
No, life symptoms: There is not.
The body’s fit.
Therefore, he comes back again.
When the body is not fit, he enter another body.
Just like your car you leave; now we come here.
Now the car is all right; we’ll go.
If it is useless, we don’t go; we take another.
The body is breathing.
HṚDAYĀNANDA: Like leaving the motor running.
They… Unless the seer returns back, the body will lie down.
- That is death. - Ahh.
The seer no more comes back; then it is death.
Yeah, sometimes a man dies in his sleep.
It is death.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So sleeping is like temporary death. - Yes.
All deaths are temporary.
When you change bodies, you die for seven months.
This death is for few hours; a that is for seven months; that’s all.
Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com