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MW MAY 1976-03-07 Disciple-Discipline
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ANNOUNCER: Next is a morning walk conversation
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on March 7th, 1976, in Māyāpur, India.
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PRABHUPĀDA: What is their knowledge, nonsense?
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He has got any knowledge?
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BHAGAVĀN: They’re trying to prove
that sense gratification is bona fide.
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GURU−KṚPĀ: …and the explanation of…
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And where is sense gratification?
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As soon as nature kicks you out,
where is your sense gratification?
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HṚDĀYĀNANDA: It’s a relative thing.
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Actually, compared to the ordinary
man, he’s much more intelligent.
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What is intelligence?
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He’s thinking that “I know so many things,
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and these other people, they don’t know these things.
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Therefore I’m better than them.”
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So the birds and beasts, they know
better than you many things.
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There are many birds and beasts.
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“They can’t… They can’t explain it.”
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Eh?
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“They can’t explain it.”
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You also cannot explain. What
is explaining? All nonsense.
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“Well, I can explain.” “Perhaps.” “Might be.”
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“It was like this and that…” What is that explanation?
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Well, the common man doesn’t challenge that.
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Mean common men are fool.
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But why we should accept?
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If they could really explain it, so many
things would not be going wrong.
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Hm?
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If they could actually explain it,
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so many things would not be going wrong.
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The thing is, their explanation causes more problems.
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SATSVARŪPA: But they say that when
we say that everything is done by Kṛṣṇa,
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they say that’s also “perhaps, maybe.”
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They don’t see… No, we have got evidence.
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Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ
sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8].
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We have got evidence.
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As we don’t accept theirs, they don’t
accept ours. You don’t accept…
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You don’t… Why shall I accept you?
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You don’t accept me, I don’t accept
you. Why you become authority?
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Then they say “Finished. Get out.”
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Yes.
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My question is that “Why they become atheists,
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a little knowledge, so-called scientists?”
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MADHUDVIṢA: They have to become atheists.
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Huh?
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They have to become atheist.
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If they don’t become atheists, then
they can’t play their games anymore.
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The idea of their research finishes as
soon as you admit that there is God.
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But if you say, “There’s no God,” then they can research.
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It was explained that…
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They can continue to befool you, that, and take money.
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And as soon as you don’t give
them money, there is no research.
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Then they starve.
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PUṢṬA KṚṢṆA: We’ve seen, though,
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from examples in the Vedic literatures
like Viśvakarma and Āyur Vedic medicine,
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that it’s possible to engage in architecture, medicine,
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such activities, without being atheistic.
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So it must not simply be that they’re
scientists, but that they’re actually…
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Demons. Demons.
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Yes. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ.
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YAŚODĀNANDANA: The actual motive is to fill the belly.
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Moghāśā mogha-karmanaḥ.
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Actually they’re envious,
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because they say that “There is
no Supreme Person controlling,”
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but then, on the other hand, they want to
become the supreme person controlling.
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They cannot.
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So it’s just a matter of envy.
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Who was that demon? He got
some benediction from Lord Śiva.
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Anyone he touched, his head would fall off,
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but he wanted to use it against Lord Śiva. [break]
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When one is jealous of God, then
gradually jealous of everyone.
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Jealousy. Jealousy, yes.
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SIDDHA−SVARŪPANANDA: So
then, if I’m jealous of others,
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it’s really just a reflection of my jealousy of Kṛṣṇa.
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Yes.
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And if I am angry at others,
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it’s because I’m angry at Kṛṣṇa also.
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Everything begins from Kṛṣṇa.
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Mattaḥ sarvam pravartate [Bg 10.8]. [splice]
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Disciple means discipline.
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The word discipline comes from disciple,
or disciple comes from discipline.
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So unless there is discipline,
there is no question of disciple.
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This discipline must… That should be uniform.
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Otherwise, śiṣya… Śiṣya, the word śiṣya,
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it comes from the root, verb,
śās-dhātu. Śās. Śās means ruling.
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From this word, sasana. Sasana means government.
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Śāstra. Śāstra means weapon,
and śāstra, scripture, and sisya…
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These things have come from the one root śās-dhātu.
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So śās-dhātu means ruling under discipline.
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So, there is another English word,
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that “Obedience is the first law
of discipline,” or something.
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They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”?
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So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.
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No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word.
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“Obedience is the first law of discipline.”
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So unless there is obedience,
there cannot be any discipline.
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And unless there is discipline,
there is no question of disciple.
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Disciple means one who follows the discipline.
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So…
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SIDDHA−SVARŪPA: So there
is no disagreement with that.
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I have no disagreement. Yes, that is the point.
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That is… But I consider that discipline
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and the person being disciplined must be voluntary.
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He must voluntarily put himself
under someone’s discipline.
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Yes, that is… Accepting spiritual master means
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voluntarily accepting somebody to rule him.
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There is no question…
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I have no power to rule over you
unless you voluntarily surrender.
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Yes.
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I am Indian. Why, you Americans, you should obey me?
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You have done it voluntarily.
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Yes.
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So, [chuckles] in India they
appreciate me only on this point,
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that I am Indian; how I am
controlling so many Americans?
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That is their appreciation. [laughter]
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So this acceptance of guru means voluntarily surrender.
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Yes. Śiṣyas te ’haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg 2.7].
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The instruction is there in the… They
were friends, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna.
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From material point of view, they are equal.
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He is also belonging to the royal family,
he is also belonging to the royal family,
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and they are cousin brothers, equal footing, friend.
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But still, Arjuna said, “Now there is no solution.
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I become Your disciple.”
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śiṣyas te ’haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam “I surrender.”
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And this is sisya, surrender.
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And then lessons on Bhagavad-gītā began.
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So we have to surrender voluntarily;
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otherwise discipline cannot be implemented.
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That is wanted.
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śiṣyas te ’haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam
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Śrīla Prabhupāda, it mentions in The following is a class
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on the Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-mārga
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there are many things we don’t want to do
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but we must do in order to make advancement.
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No, that is also modern government, democracy.
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I do not want to do something,
but the Parliament pass the laws.
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We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline.
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Just like C. R. Das.
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C. R. Das was one of the prominent
member of Indian Congress.
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So he was earning in those days, fifty years
ago, fifty thousand rupees per month.
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It is twenty times now increased.
Fifty years before he was…
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Nowadays ten lakhs per month.
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At least five lakhs he was earning.
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So the Congress resolution was that
“noncooperation,” so “Boycott British court.
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We are not going on.”
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So resolution that everyone should give
up practice of law in the British court.
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Resolution.
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So C. R. Das did not like that idea.
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He said that “I am earning fifty thousand.
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I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda.
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Why you are asking me to give up this practice?”
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So the resolution was, “No, we should noncooperate.
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We don’t want money. We should noncooperate.”
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So when… He fought in the meeting
that “This should be withdrawn.”
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So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned.
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Then he resigned. [splice]
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So my point is that when the…
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He fought his best that “This
resolution should be withdrawn,
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boycott of British court,” but it was not done.
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But although he was very strong
protester, still he had to do it.
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This is modern democracy.
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If the majority votes is in favor of
something, even if I do not like it,
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I’ll have to accept it.
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That is, of course, the so-called democracy.
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That…, we do not accept that.
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Our obedience is to the spiritual master.
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So in this way we should… If
there is any misunderstanding,
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this should be adjusted and we
should work wholeheartedly,
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because our responsibility is very great.
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We are trying to contribute
something to the whole world.
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Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com