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MW VRN 1975-12-11 Knowledge-To Find the Source
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ANNOUNCER: The following is
a morning walk conversation
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on the 11th of December,
1975, in Vṛndāvana, India.
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[splice] Prabhupāda, you know
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the ISKCON centres
you have started
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they are just like actually
Vaikuṇṭha, they are so nice.
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Even the Gauḍīya Matha
centres were not so nice.
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Just like an installation
of Vaikuṇṭha.
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They’re so clean
and nice [indistinct]
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…help becoming devotees
by visiting your centers.
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Becomes almost automatic.
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Follow the regulative principles,
it will remain, always Vaikuṇṭha.
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Otherwise again material world.
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Yes.
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Free hotel [laughs] That’s all.
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And free hotel will not endure.
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No.
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Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ
[Cc. Madhya 17.136]
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By service spirit beginning
with tongue Hare Kṛṣṇa.
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Then everything is revealed,
Vaikuṇṭha atmosphere…
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AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI:
Of course we accept, ah,
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when you tell us to chant sixteen
rounds, we accept that figure as being,
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in perfect faith, that you’re the ācārya, but
ah, what if others we wanted to convince,
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is there any, any ah, śāstr…
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Is there any Vedic
verse we can refer to
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to corroborate that at least
they must chant sixteen rounds.
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Or that many number of names?
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No. In the śāstra it is
not said like that… I see.
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It is said, śaṅkhy-pūrvakaḥ…
Śaṅkhy-pūrvakaḥ.
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You must fix up.
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Counting.
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You must fix up in
numerical strength.
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I see.
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Whatever you can.
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Yes.
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But I have fixed up sixteen
rounds, because you cannot do.
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AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI:
That’s all we can do.
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[smiling, touch of irony] Yes.
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That also is difficult.
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Yes [laughing]
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PRABHUPĀDA: Otherwise, Haridāsa
Ṭhākura was chanting 300,000.
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So, that is not possible.
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You should not imitate, but
whatever you fix up you must do.
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Yes.
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That is wanted.
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Yes.
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I was told in the beginning you asked
the first disciples to chant 64 rounds?
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Yes.
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Then you asked them to chant 32?
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[grinning] Hm.
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AKṢAYĀNANDA
SWAMI: Is that correct?
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saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ
[Ṣaḍ-gosvāmy-aṣṭaka 6]
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Śaṅkhya purva, or numerical
strength must be there.
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And you should follow rigidly.
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So if, if we are serious and sincere, it
means that that sixteen will increase to, ah,
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to continuously chanting.
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You can do also now.
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It’s not that because I’ve
finished sixteen rounds…
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AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: No.
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You can increase.
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But that sixteen must be finished.
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AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI:
Yes [pause] What I mean is,
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that’s to bring us to the
platform of chanting constantly.
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That at least we do that numerical
number, finally we may be able to do,
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if we’re fortunate to chant
constantly day and night.
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Yes. [splice]
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They have now learned from
the Western countries to run!
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[jogger goes past] [laughs] And
without caring for the field.
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Hm?
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Field working is very troublesome
and this running is very easy.
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HARI-ŚAURI: Running out
of breath [pause] [splice]
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Scientists say,
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is there any living
entity in the sun globe?
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No.
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They don’t, they
say there’s nothing.
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Simply everything here? Yes.
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That’s what they say.
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And especially in
Europe and America!
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[everyone laughs] Hare Kṛṣṇa!
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They say there is nothing.
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They have gone there?
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They have seen?
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AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI:
Not very intelligent. [splice]
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So who, who put all
this energy there?
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Where from nitrogen came?
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JÑĀNA: That they don’t know.
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Therefore they are rascals.
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They do not know, something, and they
are speaking on the subject matter.
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Is it not nonsense?
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HARIKEŚA: We know there’s no life on the
sun because we can look at a fire here
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and we see there’s no life.
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But you are blind.
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You have no eyes to see.
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Well we have our instruments
and we look through…
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So what is the use of it?
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Anything made by
rascal, is that perfect?
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Well it’s better than
some mythological book!
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No, book also, you write book and
you want to believe, others your book.
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That is also book.
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Why do you write scientific book?
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Well they’re proven,
those other books…
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What is proven? You cannot say what
is the chemical there, wherefrom came.
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Is that proof?
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“We cannot say.”
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Is that proof?
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Well we know how they interact.
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We may not know how they got here but
we know what they do once they are here.
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No… Knowledge means
to find out the source.
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That is knowledge.
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Where from it comes.
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There is a good example we
studied in our childhood.
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A child was very intelligent
so he was beating on a drum,
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so he was very much inquisitive,
“Where from the sound is coming?”
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Then he cut the surface…
[laughing] That is intelligence.
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Inquisitive… where from
the sound is coming?
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Although it was childish but
that is innate intelligence.
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Scientists are trying to do that.
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They are taking…
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And that is alright.
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In future!
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[laughter] SMARAHARI:
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The scientists say that the sun
is made of certain elements
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and all the stars they
are made of the same…
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Then why don’t you make
an imitation sun here?
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At night so that you may
save so many expenses.
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So much expenses for electric.
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The rascal. If you know the
chemicals then you make it.
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Ha? What do they say?
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They say there are
many suns… but…
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That’s alright. Make you
one sun, if you know!
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Many suns but you have
not made anyone of them.
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You just try to make one, then
I shall see your intelligence.
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Huh? What do you say? Anybody?
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AKṢAYĀNANDA They cannot do.
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DEVOTEE (1) [WOMAN]: They
don’t have enough power.
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Huh?
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Then why do you say nonsense!
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If you have not enough power there
must be somebody powerful than you—
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you have to admit that—who
has made all these things.
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But you are rascal you have not…
You are simply, ahh, what is called?
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Speculating.
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That in future we
shall be powerful.
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But the powerful is already there.
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What is your credit?
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More powerful, if you cannot
conceive even how powerful He is.
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And you are trying to become in future
powerful, therefore you are a scientist.
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Huh? Is that alright?
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What is your value?
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The already powerful is there, who
has manufactured these things.
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And you are expecting in future you’ll be
powerful; therefore you are more powerful.
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Just see their folly.
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If you are powerful then make
it, another imitation sun.
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[half joking] I’m seriously speaking,
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if we made another one the whole
place would become too hot.
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Hah.
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So you are scientist, you
protect yourself [laughter]
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DEVOTEE (2): Scientists aren’t
very intelligent because
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today he big thing in the country
politically is that whole world
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thinks they are running out
of energy on one hand,
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and on the other hand
the whole world believes
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that the scientists can
solve all the problems
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and get to know the
absolute truth but if they…
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They are creating problems.
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Yes, they’re creating problems.
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[sounds of lots of birds in
background] [stops] Birds and beasts,
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they’re living without any
scientists—they’re more happy.
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But they’re freezing in
the cold and they’re…
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No, no one is freezing.
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That is you are speaking
but they are not freezing.
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Even in the coldest part
of the country, Greenland,
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the animals are living quite nicely.
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The birds and many animals.
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But if we preach like that to them,
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then they’ll say ‘then what’s wrong
with becoming an animal then’?
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Huh? But you are
less than an animal.
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Talking nonsense.
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Put forward the problems, summarise
janma-mṛtyu-jar-vyādhi [?].
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solve these problems.
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Well we can solve the problem of
birth by just killing all the children.
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[laughing] That is not solving,
the birth is already there,
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therefore you are killing
[everyone laughing]
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AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI:
Birth is still there.
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No. Because there is birth
therefore you are killing.
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So birth problem is not solved.
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No, no, no. We’re
killing before birth.
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What is this before birth.
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The child is already there…
mother’s womb. Ah.
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That is you rascal you can say.
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Unless he has [sic] no
life, how it is growing?
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Such a rascal… It’s a lump.
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…they cannot understand.
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Does a dead child grow?
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Simply speaking nonsense!
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That’s their whole
argument for abortion.
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That’s alright but…
You just finished it!
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[laughing] PRABHUPĀDA: …but our
point is, the birth problem is not solved.
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If there are unwanted population,
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you kill them that does not mean
the population problem is solved.
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They’re not actually seeing the
actual causes of the problems.
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Hm?
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They’re not actually seeing the
causes of the problems [splice]
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Yes, that's why adjustment
is not solution.
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AKṢAYĀNANDA You said once,
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putting a weight from your head
and then on to your shoulders.
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Ha?
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You are carrying a heavy weight
I remember you said once.
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You’re carrying heavy weight here,
to take the pain you put it here.
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Then again back here.
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But still the weight is there.
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The scientists came up with
another one for enjoyment.
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That they cut this little cord that
makes the sperm come into the semen
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and in this way they can have sex life like
anything and they’re actually not killing
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[Man shouts greeting
in background]
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Hare Kṛṣṇa.
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Jai!
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Jaya.
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Semen, what is that? [splice]
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So one may check, two may
check, what about millions?
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Supposing they can check in that way,
it may be possible for one or two,
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or a dozen, but what about
millions and millions?
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Nature’s way.
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That’s if they, they’re
doing this in…
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In future.
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That will solve in future.
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They were giving prizes to
people who are doing this.
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Yes.
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Like TV sets.
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Mutual ‘present’ society
[everyone laughing]
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Hiraṇyakaśipu civilization,
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and we are presenting
Prahlāda civilization.
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So this is a struggle, but ultimately
Prahlāda will come out triumphant.
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Hare Kṛṣṇa [to bystander] and
Hiraṇyakaṣipu will be killed.
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Jaya!
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[Walks into temple] [end].
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Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com