0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,001 MW VRN 1975-12-11 Knowledge-To Find the Source 1 00:00:00,002 --> 00:00:17,833 ANNOUNCER: The following is a morning walk conversation 2 00:00:17,834 --> 00:00:23,250 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:23,251 --> 00:00:46,784 recorded on the 11th of December, 1975, in Vṛndāvana, India. 4 00:00:46,785 --> 00:00:47,830 [splice] Prabhupāda, you know 5 00:00:47,831 --> 00:00:50,852 the ISKCON centres you have started 6 00:00:50,853 --> 00:00:53,976 they are just like actually Vaikuṇṭha, they are so nice. 7 00:00:53,977 --> 00:00:57,824 Even the Gauḍīya Matha centres were not so nice. 8 00:00:57,825 --> 00:01:00,562 Just like an installation of Vaikuṇṭha. 9 00:01:00,563 --> 00:01:05,579 They’re so clean and nice [indistinct] 10 00:01:05,580 --> 00:01:11,112 …help becoming devotees by visiting your centers. 11 00:01:11,113 --> 00:01:14,769 Becomes almost automatic. 12 00:01:14,770 --> 00:01:19,620 Follow the regulative principles, it will remain, always Vaikuṇṭha. 13 00:01:19,621 --> 00:01:22,449 Otherwise again material world. 14 00:01:22,450 --> 00:01:23,961 Yes. 15 00:01:23,962 --> 00:01:27,416 Free hotel [laughs] That’s all. 16 00:01:27,417 --> 00:01:29,480 And free hotel will not endure. 17 00:01:29,481 --> 00:01:45,335 No. 18 00:01:45,336 --> 00:01:49,934 Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136] 19 00:01:49,935 --> 00:01:56,829 By service spirit beginning with tongue Hare Kṛṣṇa. 20 00:01:56,830 --> 00:02:05,366 Then everything is revealed, Vaikuṇṭha atmosphere… 21 00:02:05,367 --> 00:02:08,395 AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Of course we accept, ah, 22 00:02:08,396 --> 00:02:14,000 when you tell us to chant sixteen rounds, we accept that figure as being, 23 00:02:14,001 --> 00:02:23,391 in perfect faith, that you’re the ācārya, but ah, what if others we wanted to convince, 24 00:02:23,392 --> 00:02:28,414 is there any, any ah, śāstr… 25 00:02:28,415 --> 00:02:33,346 Is there any Vedic verse we can refer to 26 00:02:33,347 --> 00:02:37,156 to corroborate that at least they must chant sixteen rounds. 27 00:02:37,157 --> 00:02:39,426 Or that many number of names? 28 00:02:39,427 --> 00:02:42,900 No. In the śāstra it is not said like that… I see. 29 00:02:42,901 --> 00:02:45,586 It is said, śaṅkhy-pūrvakaḥ… Śaṅkhy-pūrvakaḥ. 30 00:02:45,587 --> 00:02:46,782 You must fix up. 31 00:02:46,783 --> 00:02:47,817 Counting. 32 00:02:47,818 --> 00:02:51,340 You must fix up in numerical strength. 33 00:02:51,341 --> 00:02:51,865 I see. 34 00:02:51,866 --> 00:02:54,744 Whatever you can. 35 00:02:54,745 --> 00:02:56,127 Yes. 36 00:02:56,128 --> 00:02:59,688 But I have fixed up sixteen rounds, because you cannot do. 37 00:02:59,689 --> 00:03:00,870 AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: That’s all we can do. 38 00:03:00,871 --> 00:03:01,571 [smiling, touch of irony] Yes. 39 00:03:01,572 --> 00:03:03,280 That also is difficult. 40 00:03:03,281 --> 00:03:04,012 Yes [laughing] 41 00:03:04,013 --> 00:03:12,183 PRABHUPĀDA: Otherwise, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting 300,000. 42 00:03:12,184 --> 00:03:15,846 So, that is not possible. 43 00:03:15,847 --> 00:03:20,918 You should not imitate, but whatever you fix up you must do. 44 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:21,785 Yes. 45 00:03:21,786 --> 00:03:22,586 That is wanted. 46 00:03:22,587 --> 00:03:24,010 Yes. 47 00:03:24,011 --> 00:03:28,809 I was told in the beginning you asked the first disciples to chant 64 rounds? 48 00:03:28,810 --> 00:03:33,658 Yes. 49 00:03:33,659 --> 00:03:35,493 Then you asked them to chant 32? 50 00:03:35,494 --> 00:03:35,849 [grinning] Hm. 51 00:03:35,850 --> 00:03:40,031 AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Is that correct? 52 00:03:40,032 --> 00:03:43,969 saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ [Ṣaḍ-gosvāmy-aṣṭaka 6] 53 00:03:43,970 --> 00:03:50,002 Śaṅkhya purva, or numerical strength must be there. 54 00:03:50,003 --> 00:03:54,474 And you should follow rigidly. 55 00:03:54,475 --> 00:04:07,036 So if, if we are serious and sincere, it means that that sixteen will increase to, ah, 56 00:04:07,037 --> 00:04:10,413 to continuously chanting. 57 00:04:10,414 --> 00:04:12,024 You can do also now. 58 00:04:12,025 --> 00:04:14,468 It’s not that because I’ve finished sixteen rounds… 59 00:04:14,469 --> 00:04:15,464 AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: No. 60 00:04:15,465 --> 00:04:16,787 You can increase. 61 00:04:16,788 --> 00:04:18,433 But that sixteen must be finished. 62 00:04:18,434 --> 00:04:31,476 AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Yes [pause] What I mean is, 63 00:04:31,477 --> 00:04:35,337 that’s to bring us to the platform of chanting constantly. 64 00:04:35,338 --> 00:04:40,046 That at least we do that numerical number, finally we may be able to do, 65 00:04:40,047 --> 00:04:43,021 if we’re fortunate to chant constantly day and night. 66 00:04:43,022 --> 00:04:53,910 Yes. [splice] 67 00:04:53,911 --> 00:04:58,825 They have now learned from the Western countries to run! 68 00:04:58,826 --> 00:05:04,190 [jogger goes past] [laughs] And without caring for the field. 69 00:05:04,191 --> 00:05:04,627 Hm? 70 00:05:04,628 --> 00:05:13,134 Field working is very troublesome and this running is very easy. 71 00:05:13,135 --> 00:05:17,085 HARI-ŚAURI: Running out of breath [pause] [splice] 72 00:05:17,086 --> 00:05:19,168 Scientists say, 73 00:05:19,169 --> 00:05:23,582 is there any living entity in the sun globe? 74 00:05:23,583 --> 00:05:24,208 No. 75 00:05:24,209 --> 00:05:26,705 They don’t, they say there’s nothing. 76 00:05:26,706 --> 00:05:28,381 Simply everything here? Yes. 77 00:05:28,382 --> 00:05:29,105 That’s what they say. 78 00:05:29,106 --> 00:05:31,338 And especially in Europe and America! 79 00:05:31,339 --> 00:05:41,612 [everyone laughs] Hare Kṛṣṇa! 80 00:05:41,613 --> 00:05:44,245 They say there is nothing. 81 00:05:44,246 --> 00:05:45,659 They have gone there? 82 00:05:45,660 --> 00:05:51,102 They have seen? 83 00:05:51,103 --> 00:05:52,259 AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Not very intelligent. [splice] 84 00:05:52,260 --> 00:05:54,288 So who, who put all this energy there? 85 00:05:54,289 --> 00:05:55,902 Where from nitrogen came? 86 00:05:55,903 --> 00:05:56,665 JÑĀNA: That they don’t know. 87 00:05:56,666 --> 00:05:57,765 Therefore they are rascals. 88 00:05:57,766 --> 00:06:01,884 They do not know, something, and they are speaking on the subject matter. 89 00:06:01,885 --> 00:06:06,709 Is it not nonsense? 90 00:06:06,710 --> 00:06:10,002 HARIKEŚA: We know there’s no life on the sun because we can look at a fire here 91 00:06:10,003 --> 00:06:11,150 and we see there’s no life. 92 00:06:11,151 --> 00:06:13,448 But you are blind. 93 00:06:13,449 --> 00:06:15,016 You have no eyes to see. 94 00:06:15,017 --> 00:06:18,026 Well we have our instruments and we look through… 95 00:06:18,027 --> 00:06:29,194 So what is the use of it? 96 00:06:29,195 --> 00:06:34,260 Anything made by rascal, is that perfect? 97 00:06:34,261 --> 00:06:36,820 Well it’s better than some mythological book! 98 00:06:36,821 --> 00:06:44,413 No, book also, you write book and you want to believe, others your book. 99 00:06:44,414 --> 00:06:45,581 That is also book. 100 00:06:45,582 --> 00:06:47,989 Why do you write scientific book? 101 00:06:47,990 --> 00:06:49,208 Well they’re proven, those other books… 102 00:06:49,209 --> 00:06:54,342 What is proven? You cannot say what is the chemical there, wherefrom came. 103 00:06:54,343 --> 00:06:55,266 Is that proof? 104 00:06:55,267 --> 00:06:56,406 “We cannot say.” 105 00:06:56,407 --> 00:06:58,204 Is that proof? 106 00:06:58,205 --> 00:07:00,337 Well we know how they interact. 107 00:07:00,338 --> 00:07:03,278 We may not know how they got here but we know what they do once they are here. 108 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:08,162 No… Knowledge means to find out the source. 109 00:07:08,163 --> 00:07:11,375 That is knowledge. 110 00:07:11,376 --> 00:07:13,922 Where from it comes. 111 00:07:13,923 --> 00:07:18,193 There is a good example we studied in our childhood. 112 00:07:18,194 --> 00:07:22,941 A child was very intelligent so he was beating on a drum, 113 00:07:22,942 --> 00:07:27,967 so he was very much inquisitive, “Where from the sound is coming?” 114 00:07:27,968 --> 00:07:33,989 Then he cut the surface… [laughing] That is intelligence. 115 00:07:33,990 --> 00:07:37,241 Inquisitive… where from the sound is coming? 116 00:07:37,242 --> 00:07:43,536 Although it was childish but that is innate intelligence. 117 00:07:43,537 --> 00:07:44,905 Scientists are trying to do that. 118 00:07:44,906 --> 00:07:45,488 They are taking… 119 00:07:45,489 --> 00:07:47,326 And that is alright. 120 00:07:47,327 --> 00:07:48,151 In future! 121 00:07:48,152 --> 00:07:50,644 [laughter] SMARAHARI: 122 00:07:50,645 --> 00:07:53,846 The scientists say that the sun is made of certain elements 123 00:07:53,847 --> 00:07:55,402 and all the stars they are made of the same… 124 00:07:55,403 --> 00:07:59,961 Then why don’t you make an imitation sun here? 125 00:07:59,962 --> 00:08:04,136 At night so that you may save so many expenses. 126 00:08:04,137 --> 00:08:06,777 So much expenses for electric. 127 00:08:06,778 --> 00:08:11,191 The rascal. If you know the chemicals then you make it. 128 00:08:11,192 --> 00:08:13,401 Ha? What do they say? 129 00:08:13,402 --> 00:08:15,905 They say there are many suns… but… 130 00:08:15,906 --> 00:08:20,481 That’s alright. Make you one sun, if you know! 131 00:08:20,482 --> 00:08:23,214 Many suns but you have not made anyone of them. 132 00:08:23,215 --> 00:08:27,267 You just try to make one, then I shall see your intelligence. 133 00:08:27,268 --> 00:08:31,538 Huh? What do you say? Anybody? 134 00:08:31,539 --> 00:08:32,422 AKṢAYĀNANDA They cannot do. 135 00:08:32,423 --> 00:08:34,082 DEVOTEE (1) [WOMAN]: They don’t have enough power. 136 00:08:34,083 --> 00:08:34,949 Huh? 137 00:08:34,950 --> 00:08:36,862 Then why do you say nonsense! 138 00:08:36,863 --> 00:08:40,904 If you have not enough power there must be somebody powerful than you— 139 00:08:40,905 --> 00:08:44,245 you have to admit that—who has made all these things. 140 00:08:44,246 --> 00:08:53,594 But you are rascal you have not… You are simply, ahh, what is called? 141 00:08:53,595 --> 00:08:54,920 Speculating. 142 00:08:54,921 --> 00:08:58,446 That in future we shall be powerful. 143 00:08:58,447 --> 00:09:01,089 But the powerful is already there. 144 00:09:01,090 --> 00:09:04,195 What is your credit? 145 00:09:04,196 --> 00:09:09,683 More powerful, if you cannot conceive even how powerful He is. 146 00:09:09,684 --> 00:09:16,726 And you are trying to become in future powerful, therefore you are a scientist. 147 00:09:16,727 --> 00:09:19,736 Huh? Is that alright? 148 00:09:19,737 --> 00:09:21,342 What is your value? 149 00:09:21,343 --> 00:09:27,549 The already powerful is there, who has manufactured these things. 150 00:09:27,550 --> 00:09:35,381 And you are expecting in future you’ll be powerful; therefore you are more powerful. 151 00:09:35,382 --> 00:09:40,498 Just see their folly. 152 00:09:40,499 --> 00:09:46,341 If you are powerful then make it, another imitation sun. 153 00:09:46,342 --> 00:09:47,539 [half joking] I’m seriously speaking, 154 00:09:47,540 --> 00:09:50,423 if we made another one the whole place would become too hot. 155 00:09:50,424 --> 00:09:51,840 Hah. 156 00:09:51,841 --> 00:10:03,862 So you are scientist, you protect yourself [laughter] 157 00:10:03,863 --> 00:10:06,596 DEVOTEE (2): Scientists aren’t very intelligent because 158 00:10:06,597 --> 00:10:11,073 today he big thing in the country politically is that whole world 159 00:10:11,074 --> 00:10:13,961 thinks they are running out of energy on one hand, 160 00:10:13,962 --> 00:10:15,395 and on the other hand the whole world believes 161 00:10:15,396 --> 00:10:17,477 that the scientists can solve all the problems 162 00:10:17,478 --> 00:10:21,193 and get to know the absolute truth but if they… 163 00:10:21,194 --> 00:10:23,108 They are creating problems. 164 00:10:23,109 --> 00:10:31,248 Yes, they’re creating problems. 165 00:10:31,249 --> 00:10:33,320 [sounds of lots of birds in background] [stops] Birds and beasts, 166 00:10:33,321 --> 00:10:40,124 they’re living without any scientists—they’re more happy. 167 00:10:40,125 --> 00:10:42,148 But they’re freezing in the cold and they’re… 168 00:10:42,149 --> 00:10:44,560 No, no one is freezing. 169 00:10:44,561 --> 00:10:48,958 That is you are speaking but they are not freezing. 170 00:10:48,959 --> 00:10:54,448 Even in the coldest part of the country, Greenland, 171 00:10:54,449 --> 00:10:56,800 the animals are living quite nicely. 172 00:10:56,801 --> 00:11:01,856 The birds and many animals. 173 00:11:01,857 --> 00:11:03,700 But if we preach like that to them, 174 00:11:03,701 --> 00:11:06,138 then they’ll say ‘then what’s wrong with becoming an animal then’? 175 00:11:06,139 --> 00:11:10,188 Huh? But you are less than an animal. 176 00:11:10,189 --> 00:11:12,255 Talking nonsense. 177 00:11:12,256 --> 00:11:20,429 Put forward the problems, summarise janma-mṛtyu-jar-vyādhi [?]. 178 00:11:20,430 --> 00:11:21,947 solve these problems. 179 00:11:21,948 --> 00:11:28,038 Well we can solve the problem of birth by just killing all the children. 180 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:33,305 [laughing] That is not solving, the birth is already there, 181 00:11:33,306 --> 00:11:36,833 therefore you are killing [everyone laughing] 182 00:11:36,834 --> 00:11:38,103 AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Birth is still there. 183 00:11:38,104 --> 00:11:41,343 No. Because there is birth therefore you are killing. 184 00:11:41,344 --> 00:11:42,957 So birth problem is not solved. 185 00:11:42,958 --> 00:11:45,779 No, no, no. We’re killing before birth. 186 00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:46,929 What is this before birth. 187 00:11:46,930 --> 00:11:52,190 The child is already there… mother’s womb. Ah. 188 00:11:52,191 --> 00:11:54,652 That is you rascal you can say. 189 00:11:54,653 --> 00:11:58,046 Unless he has [sic] no life, how it is growing? 190 00:11:58,047 --> 00:11:59,421 Such a rascal… It’s a lump. 191 00:11:59,422 --> 00:12:01,311 …they cannot understand. 192 00:12:01,312 --> 00:12:05,410 Does a dead child grow? 193 00:12:05,411 --> 00:12:09,316 Simply speaking nonsense! 194 00:12:09,317 --> 00:12:11,785 That’s their whole argument for abortion. 195 00:12:11,786 --> 00:12:14,487 That’s alright but… You just finished it! 196 00:12:14,488 --> 00:12:19,331 [laughing] PRABHUPĀDA: …but our point is, the birth problem is not solved. 197 00:12:19,332 --> 00:12:22,524 If there are unwanted population, 198 00:12:22,525 --> 00:12:33,283 you kill them that does not mean the population problem is solved. 199 00:12:33,284 --> 00:12:35,600 They’re not actually seeing the actual causes of the problems. 200 00:12:35,601 --> 00:12:36,103 Hm? 201 00:12:36,104 --> 00:12:39,159 They’re not actually seeing the causes of the problems [splice] 202 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:44,784 Yes, that's why adjustment is not solution. 203 00:12:44,785 --> 00:12:45,657 AKṢAYĀNANDA You said once, 204 00:12:45,658 --> 00:12:49,061 putting a weight from your head and then on to your shoulders. 205 00:12:49,062 --> 00:12:49,367 Ha? 206 00:12:49,368 --> 00:12:51,878 You are carrying a heavy weight I remember you said once. 207 00:12:51,879 --> 00:12:56,347 You’re carrying heavy weight here, to take the pain you put it here. 208 00:12:56,348 --> 00:12:59,732 Then again back here. 209 00:12:59,733 --> 00:13:03,580 But still the weight is there. 210 00:13:03,581 --> 00:13:06,924 The scientists came up with another one for enjoyment. 211 00:13:06,925 --> 00:13:13,441 That they cut this little cord that makes the sperm come into the semen 212 00:13:13,442 --> 00:13:16,639 and in this way they can have sex life like anything and they’re actually not killing 213 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,641 [Man shouts greeting in background] 214 00:13:20,642 --> 00:13:21,457 Hare Kṛṣṇa. 215 00:13:21,458 --> 00:13:23,397 Jai! 216 00:13:23,398 --> 00:13:25,243 Jaya. 217 00:13:25,244 --> 00:13:26,286 Semen, what is that? [splice] 218 00:13:26,287 --> 00:13:32,065 So one may check, two may check, what about millions? 219 00:13:32,066 --> 00:13:38,140 Supposing they can check in that way, it may be possible for one or two, 220 00:13:38,141 --> 00:13:45,466 or a dozen, but what about millions and millions? 221 00:13:45,467 --> 00:13:49,977 Nature’s way. 222 00:13:49,978 --> 00:13:51,724 That’s if they, they’re doing this in… 223 00:13:51,725 --> 00:13:53,572 In future. 224 00:13:53,573 --> 00:13:59,259 That will solve in future. 225 00:13:59,260 --> 00:14:01,668 They were giving prizes to people who are doing this. 226 00:14:01,669 --> 00:14:02,816 Yes. 227 00:14:02,817 --> 00:14:04,030 Like TV sets. 228 00:14:04,031 --> 00:14:09,160 Mutual ‘present’ society [everyone laughing] 229 00:14:09,161 --> 00:14:12,542 Hiraṇyakaśipu civilization, 230 00:14:12,543 --> 00:14:17,385 and we are presenting Prahlāda civilization. 231 00:14:17,386 --> 00:14:25,466 So this is a struggle, but ultimately Prahlāda will come out triumphant. 232 00:14:25,467 --> 00:14:33,448 Hare Kṛṣṇa [to bystander] and Hiraṇyakaṣipu will be killed. 233 00:14:33,449 --> 00:14:42,314 Jaya! 234 00:14:42,314 --> 00:14:42,314 [Walks into temple] [end]. 235 00:14:42,315 --> 00:14:42,316 Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com