0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,601 RC BOM 1977-04-01 From Skyscraper Constructor to --etc 1 00:00:01,602 --> 00:00:03,421 ANNOUNCER: Next is a conversation 2 00:00:03,422 --> 00:00:08,741 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:08,742 --> 00:00:16,441 recorded on April 1st, 1977, in Bombay, India. 4 00:00:16,442 --> 00:00:19,981 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So your answer to his question, 5 00:00:19,982 --> 00:00:24,111 “Do you consider the message of Jesus Christ to be universal?” 6 00:00:24,112 --> 00:00:25,144 You say yes. 7 00:00:25,145 --> 00:00:26,521 PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. 8 00:00:26,522 --> 00:00:29,209 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Because he says, “Thou shalt not kill.” 9 00:00:29,210 --> 00:00:29,991 PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. 10 00:00:29,992 --> 00:00:31,091 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: But none of them are following. 11 00:00:31,092 --> 00:00:33,472 PRABHUPĀDA: No, all bogus. 12 00:00:33,473 --> 00:00:45,722 And going on in the name of Christian. 13 00:00:45,723 --> 00:00:50,182 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: And he says he lived in our temples, 14 00:00:50,183 --> 00:00:53,252 but he is not satisfied with the Christian faith, 15 00:00:53,253 --> 00:00:57,732 but he is finding a great deal of satisfaction now living in our temples. 16 00:00:57,733 --> 00:01:04,662 PRABHUPĀDA: First of all become Christian, 17 00:01:04,663 --> 00:01:17,272 that you are following all the ten commandments. 18 00:01:17,273 --> 00:01:26,792 “Judge not others lest you be judged.” 19 00:01:26,793 --> 00:01:29,002 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: His second question is, 20 00:01:29,003 --> 00:01:35,732 “Considering that the Bible describes Jesus as the savior of the people of God, 21 00:01:35,733 --> 00:01:39,182 not only of Israel but of every man’s sins, 22 00:01:39,183 --> 00:01:44,142 does it not minimize his actual position to say that he is simply an avatāra, 23 00:01:44,143 --> 00:01:48,542 and does it not contradict the teachings of the Bible…?” 24 00:01:48,543 --> 00:01:54,292 First of all he says isn’t that minimizing him to say that he’s an avatāra? 25 00:01:54,293 --> 00:01:58,442 PRABHUPĀDA: We accept him as avatāra, śaktyāveśa-avatāra, 26 00:01:58,443 --> 00:02:04,122 empowered incarnation of God. 27 00:02:04,123 --> 00:02:05,652 That we accept. 28 00:02:05,653 --> 00:02:12,483 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah. 29 00:02:12,484 --> 00:02:16,643 He says, “Like any other revealed scripture, the Bible’s teachings are absolute, 30 00:02:16,644 --> 00:02:20,223 but are they to be understood literally or symbolically, 31 00:02:20,224 --> 00:02:22,193 and are they applicable for all men?” 32 00:02:22,194 --> 00:02:38,583 PRABHUPĀDA: Literally, not symbolically. 33 00:02:38,584 --> 00:02:41,613 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says, “What is the actual meaning 34 00:02:41,614 --> 00:02:47,593 of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?” 35 00:02:47,594 --> 00:02:49,963 PRABHUPĀDA: It has no meaning. 36 00:02:49,964 --> 00:03:06,803 The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him. 37 00:03:06,804 --> 00:03:11,503 Because he was speaking of God. 38 00:03:11,504 --> 00:03:19,533 So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. 39 00:03:19,534 --> 00:03:25,203 He had to deal with such rascals 40 00:03:25,204 --> 00:03:34,123 that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. 41 00:03:34,124 --> 00:03:48,453 He preached, “Thou shalt not kill,” and they killed him first. 42 00:03:48,454 --> 00:03:54,623 This is their intelligence. 43 00:03:54,624 --> 00:03:58,293 Now people are advanced. 44 00:03:58,294 --> 00:04:10,303 Those doctrines, they are not [indistinct]. That’s all. The answer. 45 00:04:10,304 --> 00:04:10,963 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says, 46 00:04:10,964 --> 00:04:14,983 “Did Jesus die on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?” 47 00:04:14,984 --> 00:04:25,114 PRABHUPĀDA: This is another sinful thought— 48 00:04:25,115 --> 00:04:32,914 Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. 49 00:04:32,915 --> 00:04:40,304 That’s a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, 50 00:04:40,305 --> 00:04:49,954 that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. 51 00:04:49,955 --> 00:05:04,494 This is most sinful conviction. 52 00:05:04,495 --> 00:05:07,064 Instead of stopping sinful activities, 53 00:05:07,065 --> 00:05:28,744 we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it. 54 00:05:28,745 --> 00:05:34,694 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins 55 00:05:34,695 --> 00:05:37,744 unless they stop sinning. 56 00:05:37,745 --> 00:05:43,794 PRABHUPĀDA: Then what is the use of his preaching? 57 00:05:43,795 --> 00:05:47,494 They will continue sinful activities, 58 00:05:47,495 --> 00:05:54,104 and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. 59 00:05:54,105 --> 00:05:58,294 How nonsense idea this is! 60 00:05:58,295 --> 00:06:03,294 Bhavānanda, do you think it is good idea? 61 00:06:03,295 --> 00:06:04,474 BHAVĀNANDA: Not a good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda. 62 00:06:04,475 --> 00:06:10,244 PRABHUPĀDA: Nonsense rascals. 63 00:06:10,245 --> 00:06:20,014 These people should be immediately hanged. 64 00:06:20,015 --> 00:06:23,145 “Our religion is very good.” What is that? 65 00:06:23,146 --> 00:06:31,725 “We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us.” 66 00:06:31,726 --> 00:06:33,281 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Rascals. 67 00:06:33,282 --> 00:06:35,545 PRABHUPĀDA: How rascaldom it is! 68 00:06:35,546 --> 00:06:40,315 Nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ [?]. 69 00:06:40,316 --> 00:06:46,345 Nāma-aparādha. 70 00:06:46,346 --> 00:06:51,115 “I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so no sinful action will be.” 71 00:06:51,116 --> 00:06:57,605 It is like that. 72 00:06:57,606 --> 00:07:02,185 That means “I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian, 73 00:07:02,186 --> 00:07:11,465 become a Vaiṣṇava, become a chanter.” 74 00:07:11,466 --> 00:07:23,685 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Nāma-aparādha. 75 00:07:23,686 --> 00:07:27,975 PRABHUPĀDA: See whether I am answering correct. 76 00:07:27,976 --> 00:07:40,155 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Oh, you are answering very good. 77 00:07:40,156 --> 00:07:43,405 He gives a lot of quotations from the Bible. 78 00:07:43,406 --> 00:07:49,165 So I’ll just read you two of them, and it is very easy to… 79 00:07:49,166 --> 00:07:51,755 PRABHUPĀDA: What is the use of giving me quotations from…? 80 00:07:51,756 --> 00:07:56,185 We are talking about practical things. TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah. 81 00:07:56,186 --> 00:07:58,065 The only point I was going to bring out was that 82 00:07:58,066 --> 00:08:01,845 it is clear how they misread the Bible. 83 00:08:01,846 --> 00:08:06,916 Just like one of them says, 84 00:08:06,917 --> 00:08:10,526 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, 85 00:08:10,527 --> 00:08:15,106 that whoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.” 86 00:08:15,107 --> 00:08:18,826 But you pointed out that to believe means to follow his teachings. 87 00:08:18,827 --> 00:08:21,216 That they don’t understand. 88 00:08:21,217 --> 00:08:24,936 They say, “We believe in Jesus,” but they don’t follow his teachings. 89 00:08:24,937 --> 00:08:27,866 PRABHUPĀDA: Then where is his belief? 90 00:08:27,867 --> 00:08:32,186 Where is the question of belief? 91 00:08:32,187 --> 00:08:36,986 Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. 92 00:08:36,987 --> 00:08:39,476 It is bogus principle. 93 00:08:39,477 --> 00:08:52,196 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah, it’s all… His next question is, 94 00:08:52,197 --> 00:08:59,536 “The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our saviour and redeemer, 95 00:08:59,537 --> 00:09:03,836 but the final test of one’s faith in Christ rests upon one’s hope 96 00:09:03,837 --> 00:09:06,706 that he will come back down to earth from heaven 97 00:09:06,707 --> 00:09:11,586 to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever. 98 00:09:11,587 --> 00:09:15,326 Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one, 99 00:09:15,327 --> 00:09:17,736 or will he actually come back?” 100 00:09:17,737 --> 00:09:22,146 PRABHUPĀDA: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain. 101 00:09:22,147 --> 00:09:29,287 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: What does he say? PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. 102 00:09:29,288 --> 00:09:35,527 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Well, he quotes, 103 00:09:35,528 --> 00:09:39,497 “And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, 104 00:09:39,498 --> 00:09:42,187 and then shall all the tribes of earth mourn 105 00:09:42,188 --> 00:09:44,037 and they shall see the son of man 106 00:09:44,038 --> 00:09:47,077 coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” 107 00:09:47,078 --> 00:09:49,887 In other words… “And shall he send…” 108 00:09:49,888 --> 00:09:57,687 There is so many statements in the Bible to allude that Christ will come again. 109 00:09:57,688 --> 00:10:21,307 PRABHUPĀDA: What is the harm if he comes again? 110 00:10:21,308 --> 00:10:22,937 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Practically that is the whole basis 111 00:10:22,938 --> 00:10:27,047 of the Christians’ faith is they are awaiting 112 00:10:27,048 --> 00:10:28,697 the day when Christ will come. PRABHUPĀDA: For the time being, 113 00:10:28,698 --> 00:10:36,527 you follow what he has said. Rather, what is the use of waiting for him? 114 00:10:36,528 --> 00:10:37,887 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah, if you don’t follow what he said, 115 00:10:37,888 --> 00:10:44,307 then even if he comes he won’t take you. 116 00:10:44,308 --> 00:10:47,347 He says if that happens, if Christ comes back, 117 00:10:47,348 --> 00:10:49,947 what will be the position of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu 118 00:10:49,948 --> 00:10:53,817 and His Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? 119 00:10:53,818 --> 00:10:56,768 Nasty question. PRABHUPĀDA: That you shall see when he comes. 120 00:10:56,769 --> 00:11:07,838 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: [laughs] That we shall see when he comes. 121 00:11:07,839 --> 00:11:10,508 Right. 122 00:11:10,509 --> 00:11:17,208 For the time being the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here. 123 00:11:17,209 --> 00:11:28,368 Next question: “What is this end of the world?” 124 00:11:28,369 --> 00:11:34,088 Then he says, “In your…” 125 00:11:34,089 --> 00:11:37,188 PRABHUPĀDA: The world will be devastated, 126 00:11:37,189 --> 00:11:41,948 and everything material… Your body is there. 127 00:11:41,949 --> 00:11:46,358 It is being maintained, and it will be finished. 128 00:11:46,359 --> 00:11:51,728 Similarly, the whole world body will be done in the same way. 129 00:11:51,729 --> 00:11:59,118 There is no other way. 130 00:11:59,119 --> 00:12:06,438 It is created, it is maintained, and it is finished. 131 00:12:06,439 --> 00:12:22,268 Naśa. It is called naśa in Sanskrit. 132 00:12:22,269 --> 00:12:25,808 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: What is that, n-a-s-s, naśa? 133 00:12:25,809 --> 00:12:28,478 PRABHUPĀDA: N- a-s-h-a. No—n-a-s. 134 00:12:28,479 --> 00:12:31,438 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: N-a-s means? 135 00:12:31,439 --> 00:12:36,098 PRABHUPĀDA: Naśa means devastated, finished. 136 00:12:36,099 --> 00:12:46,888 Apakṣaya-naśa. 137 00:12:46,889 --> 00:12:47,679 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says, 138 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:52,729 “In your introduction to the Bhagavad- gītā you refer to Hinduism, Buddhism, 139 00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:56,749 Christianism and other religious faiths as sectarian designations, 140 00:12:56,750 --> 00:12:59,739 but isn’t Kṛṣṇa consciousness just another kind of designation 141 00:12:59,740 --> 00:13:03,489 in order not to call it Kṛṣṇa-ism, another ism?” 142 00:13:03,490 --> 00:13:06,079 PRABHUPĀDA: No. 143 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:29,609 That you have to understand later on. 144 00:13:29,610 --> 00:13:33,119 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: “What is the difference between a pure Christian, 145 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,069 or at least a sincere one, and a sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa?” 146 00:13:37,070 --> 00:14:09,509 PRABHUPĀDA: No difference. 147 00:14:09,510 --> 00:14:14,329 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says he read a passage of the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa 148 00:14:14,330 --> 00:14:18,239 written by Vyāsadeva three thousand years before Christ 149 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:25,069 foretelling Jesus Christ’s presence in the Himalayas in 78 of the Christian era, 150 00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:28,309 and his meeting with King Shalamoyi.[?] 151 00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:31,939 Are there any other prophecies in the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa 152 00:14:31,940 --> 00:14:37,449 or in any other scriptures telling more accurately Jesus Christ’s birthday? 153 00:14:37,450 --> 00:14:46,580 PRABHUPĀDA: Everything is accurate there. 154 00:14:46,581 --> 00:15:00,270 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: In that particular Purāṇa? 155 00:15:00,271 --> 00:15:03,310 He says he is sorry to take your very precious time, 156 00:15:03,311 --> 00:15:10,790 and he prays that you answer all of his questions, which you have done. 157 00:15:10,791 --> 00:15:30,190 So he thanks you very much for reading this letter and for your expected help. 158 00:15:30,191 --> 00:15:37,600 He asks one last question in a P.S, which I think is practically an important question. 159 00:15:37,601 --> 00:15:39,000 He says, 160 00:15:39,001 --> 00:15:43,190 “To practically follow Jesus Christ for a sincere searcher of the truth 161 00:15:43,191 --> 00:15:44,670 who does not recognize 162 00:15:44,671 --> 00:15:50,200 and accept the external manifestations of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, 163 00:15:50,201 --> 00:15:54,880 is it possible to attain love of God?” 164 00:15:54,881 --> 00:15:58,840 No. 165 00:15:58,841 --> 00:16:05,130 PRABHUPĀDA: Love of God means God’s mercy. 166 00:16:05,131 --> 00:16:10,920 If God is pleased, He can do anything. 167 00:16:10,921 --> 00:16:23,990 So that pleasure of God can be awakened by love. 168 00:16:23,991 --> 00:16:30,450 This is called in Sanskrit kṛpā-siddhi. 169 00:16:30,451 --> 00:16:39,480 Perfection out of affection. 170 00:16:39,481 --> 00:16:45,089 Out of mercy. 171 00:16:45,090 --> 00:16:45,091 Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com