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RC BOM 1977-04-01 From Skyscraper Constructor to --etc
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ANNOUNCER: Next
is a conversation
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on April 1st,
1977, in Bombay, India.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So your
answer to his question,
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“Do you consider the message
of Jesus Christ to be universal?”
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You say yes.
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PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Because he says, “Thou shalt not kill.”
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PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: But none
of them are following.
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PRABHUPĀDA: No, all bogus.
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And going on in the
name of Christian.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: And he
says he lived in our temples,
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but he is not satisfied
with the Christian faith,
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but he is finding a great deal of
satisfaction now living in our temples.
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PRABHUPĀDA: First of
all become Christian,
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that you are following all
the ten commandments.
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“Judge not others
lest you be judged.”
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: His
second question is,
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“Considering that the Bible describes
Jesus as the savior of the people of God,
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not only of Israel but
of every man’s sins,
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does it not minimize his actual position
to say that he is simply an avatāra,
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and does it not contradict
the teachings of the Bible…?”
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First of all he says isn’t that minimizing
him to say that he’s an avatāra?
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PRABHUPĀDA: We accept him
as avatāra, śaktyāveśa-avatāra,
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empowered incarnation of God.
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That we accept.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah.
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He says, “Like any other revealed scripture,
the Bible’s teachings are absolute,
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but are they to be understood
literally or symbolically,
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and are they applicable
for all men?”
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PRABHUPĀDA: Literally,
not symbolically.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says,
“What is the actual meaning
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of the sacrifice of the cross,
Jesus dying on the cross?”
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PRABHUPĀDA: It has no meaning.
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The people were so rascal that
they attempted to kill him.
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Because he was speaking of God.
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So we can understand the pollution of the
then society, how intelligent they were.
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He had to deal with such rascals
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that he was speaking about God and the
result is that they wanted to kill him first.
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He preached, “Thou shalt not
kill,” and they killed him first.
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This is their intelligence.
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Now people are advanced.
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Those doctrines, they are not
[indistinct]. That’s all. The answer.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says,
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“Did Jesus die on the cross to
redeem all the sins of the world?”
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PRABHUPĀDA: This is
another sinful thought—
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Jesus has taken contract for
ridding your sinful activities.
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That’s a plea, what is
called plea for the sinners,
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that they will continue acting sinfully, and
Christ will take contract to counteract.
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This is most sinful conviction.
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Instead of stopping
sinful activities,
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we have given contract to
Jesus Christ to counteract it.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So these people are
not actually getting free of their sins
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unless they stop sinning.
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PRABHUPĀDA: Then what
is the use of his preaching?
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They will continue sinful activities,
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and Jesus Christ will take
contract for saving them.
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How nonsense idea this is!
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Bhavānanda, do you
think it is good idea?
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BHAVĀNANDA: Not a good
idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
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PRABHUPĀDA: Nonsense rascals.
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These people should be
immediately hanged.
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“Our religion is very
good.” What is that?
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“We cannot stop acting sinfully, and
Christ has taken contract. He will save us.”
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Rascals.
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PRABHUPĀDA: How rascaldom it is!
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Nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ [?].
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Nāma-aparādha.
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“I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa,
so no sinful action will be.”
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It is like that.
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That means “I will continue my sinful
activities and become a Christian,
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become a Vaiṣṇava,
become a chanter.”
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Nāma-aparādha.
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PRABHUPĀDA: See whether
I am answering correct.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Oh, you
are answering very good.
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He gives a lot of
quotations from the Bible.
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So I’ll just read you two of
them, and it is very easy to…
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PRABHUPĀDA: What is the use
of giving me quotations from…?
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We are talking about practical things.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah.
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The only point I was going
to bring out was that
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it is clear how they
misread the Bible.
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Just like one of them says,
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“For God so loved the world that
He gave His only begotten son,
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that whoever believeth in him should
not perish but have everlasting life.”
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But you pointed out that to believe
means to follow his teachings.
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That they don’t understand.
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They say, “We believe in Jesus,”
but they don’t follow his teachings.
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PRABHUPĀDA: Then
where is his belief?
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Where is the question of belief?
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Unless strictly follow the teachings,
there is no question of belief.
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It is bogus principle.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah, it’s
all… His next question is,
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“The essence of Christianism is to believe
that Christ is our saviour and redeemer,
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but the final test of one’s faith
in Christ rests upon one’s hope
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that he will come back
down to earth from heaven
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to establish his glory and
his realm of justice forever.
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Is this second advent of his to
be taken as a symbolic one,
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or will he actually come back?”
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PRABHUPĀDA: I do not know. What
does he say? What does he say? Explain.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: What does he say?
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Well, he quotes,
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“And then shall appear the sign
of the son of man in heaven,
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and then shall all the
tribes of earth mourn
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and they shall see the son of man
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coming in the clouds of heaven
with power and great glory.”
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In other words…
“And shall he send…”
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There is so many statements in the Bible
to allude that Christ will come again.
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PRABHUPĀDA: What is the
harm if he comes again?
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Practically
that is the whole basis
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of the Christians’ faith
is they are awaiting
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the day when Christ will come.
PRABHUPĀDA: For the time being,
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you follow what he has said. Rather,
what is the use of waiting for him?
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah, if you
don’t follow what he said,
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then even if he comes
he won’t take you.
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He says if that happens,
if Christ comes back,
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what will be the position of
Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu
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and His Kṛṣṇa
consciousness movement?
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Nasty question.
PRABHUPĀDA: That you shall see when he comes.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: [laughs] That
we shall see when he comes.
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Right.
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For the time being the Kṛṣṇa
consciousness movement is here.
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Next question: “What is
this end of the world?”
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Then he says, “In your…”
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PRABHUPĀDA: The
world will be devastated,
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and everything material…
Your body is there.
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It is being maintained,
and it will be finished.
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Similarly, the whole world body
will be done in the same way.
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There is no other way.
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It is created, it is maintained,
and it is finished.
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Naśa. It is called naśa in Sanskrit.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: What
is that, n-a-s-s, naśa?
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PRABHUPĀDA: N-
a-s-h-a. No—n-a-s.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: N-a-s means?
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PRABHUPĀDA: Naśa
means devastated, finished.
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Apakṣaya-naśa.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says,
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“In your introduction to the Bhagavad-
gītā you refer to Hinduism, Buddhism,
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Christianism and other religious
faiths as sectarian designations,
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but isn’t Kṛṣṇa consciousness
just another kind of designation
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in order not to call it
Kṛṣṇa-ism, another ism?”
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PRABHUPĀDA: No.
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That you have to
understand later on.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: “What is the
difference between a pure Christian,
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or at least a sincere one, and
a sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa?”
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PRABHUPĀDA: No difference.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says he read a
passage of the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa
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written by Vyāsadeva three
thousand years before Christ
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foretelling Jesus Christ’s presence in
the Himalayas in 78 of the Christian era,
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and his meeting with
King Shalamoyi.[?]
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Are there any other prophecies
in the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa
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or in any other scriptures telling more
accurately Jesus Christ’s birthday?
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PRABHUPĀDA: Everything
is accurate there.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: In
that particular Purāṇa?
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He says he is sorry to take
your very precious time,
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and he prays that you answer all of
his questions, which you have done.
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So he thanks you very much for reading
this letter and for your expected help.
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He asks one last question in a P.S, which I
think is practically an important question.
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He says,
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“To practically follow Jesus Christ
for a sincere searcher of the truth
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who does not recognize
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and accept the external manifestations
of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement,
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is it possible to
attain love of God?”
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No.
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PRABHUPĀDA: Love of
God means God’s mercy.
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If God is pleased,
He can do anything.
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So that pleasure of God
can be awakened by love.
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This is called in
Sanskrit kṛpā-siddhi.
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Perfection out of affection.
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Out of mercy.
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Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com