0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,022 RC NEL 1976-01-08 Special Eyes 1 00:00:15,023 --> 00:00:17,075 ANNOUNCER: The following is a conversation 2 00:00:17,076 --> 00:00:22,791 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:22,792 --> 00:00:46,801 recorded on the 8th of January, 1976, in Nellore, India. 4 00:00:46,802 --> 00:00:47,699 PRABHUPĀDA: This is idea. 5 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:51,053 Mano-rathena, by mental speculation, 6 00:00:51,054 --> 00:00:55,109 asato dhavato, they will come to materialism. 7 00:00:55,110 --> 00:00:59,429 As soon as they will hover over mental concoction, 8 00:00:59,430 --> 00:01:05,250 they will remain in the material pool, because mind is subtle form of matter. 9 00:01:05,251 --> 00:01:10,606 ACYUTĀNANDA: Also, in their evidences by which they base their dialectic discussions, 10 00:01:10,607 --> 00:01:15,030 have they regarded the Vedic scriptures? 11 00:01:15,031 --> 00:01:18,160 They have avoided them very conveniently. No, there is no question 12 00:01:18,161 --> 00:01:21,330 of dialectic discussion. 13 00:01:21,331 --> 00:01:25,800 Suppose I am discussing, you are discussing something, 14 00:01:25,801 --> 00:01:31,700 but if I am imperfect, you are imperfect, what is the value of such discussion? 15 00:01:31,701 --> 00:01:34,100 That is the point. 16 00:01:34,101 --> 00:01:44,260 The party discussing something, whether he is perfect? 17 00:01:44,261 --> 00:01:48,740 If he is not perfect, then go on discussing. 18 00:01:48,741 --> 00:01:55,020 We first of all say that any conditioned soul is defective, and that is admitted. 19 00:01:55,021 --> 00:01:57,640 They say, “We are not perfect.” 20 00:01:57,641 --> 00:02:02,471 “I think,” they say. “In my opinion,” they say. 21 00:02:02,472 --> 00:02:07,341 Never they say, the so- called scientists, “definite.” 22 00:02:07,342 --> 00:02:09,401 And they cannot say it. 23 00:02:09,402 --> 00:02:13,411 MAHAMSA: That is like Dr. Frog’s philosophy when they speculate. 24 00:02:13,412 --> 00:02:14,621 Yes. Simply speculation. 25 00:02:14,622 --> 00:02:19,341 So that kind of discussion, what is the value? 26 00:02:19,342 --> 00:02:21,911 GOPĀLA KṚṢṆA: It’s always a hypothesis. 27 00:02:21,912 --> 00:02:28,351 If some children discuss some serious subject matter, what is the value? 28 00:02:28,352 --> 00:02:35,011 And they are all children in the cradle of nature, that’s all. 29 00:02:35,012 --> 00:02:38,141 Prakṛteḥ kriya…. Therefore it is word, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. 30 00:02:38,142 --> 00:02:42,981 Just like children—”Ha! Sit down here”—he has to sit down. 31 00:02:42,982 --> 00:02:48,541 Then where is his freedom to discuss? 32 00:02:48,542 --> 00:02:53,561 Prakṛti says that “You sit down here. Don’t go there.” 33 00:02:53,562 --> 00:02:55,131 He has to accept. 34 00:02:55,132 --> 00:03:00,601 Then what is the value of discussion? 35 00:03:00,602 --> 00:03:01,921 Mainly, these Karl Marx, 36 00:03:01,922 --> 00:03:03,941 they were angry at the Christian church 37 00:03:03,942 --> 00:03:05,841 for exploiting the poor masses, 38 00:03:05,842 --> 00:03:08,112 and that’s the reason… This is our… …so he has attacked. 39 00:03:08,113 --> 00:03:11,532 He has taken vengeance on this. 40 00:03:11,533 --> 00:03:13,562 That they are doing. Still they are doing. 41 00:03:13,563 --> 00:03:17,352 Just like you said, some sprinkling water. 42 00:03:17,353 --> 00:03:24,352 They have no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. 43 00:03:24,353 --> 00:03:27,642 Now you say that “Thou shall not kill;” they say, “Thou shall not murder.” 44 00:03:27,643 --> 00:03:29,862 They are molding. 45 00:03:29,863 --> 00:03:35,202 Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage. 46 00:03:35,203 --> 00:03:38,462 They are sanctioning abortion. 47 00:03:38,463 --> 00:03:41,562 Yes. Two homosexuals were married by a priest. 48 00:03:41,563 --> 00:03:43,242 Yes. 49 00:03:43,243 --> 00:03:47,062 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Now they have a church where the priests are homosexuals 50 00:03:47,063 --> 00:03:49,022 and the attending people are homosexual. 51 00:03:49,023 --> 00:03:53,562 Hm? Now they have churches for homosex. 52 00:03:53,563 --> 00:04:00,252 That means the priest is a homosexual, and the persons who come are homosexuals. 53 00:04:00,253 --> 00:04:02,622 A special church for homosexuals. 54 00:04:02,623 --> 00:04:06,972 Just see. Is that religion? 55 00:04:06,973 --> 00:04:08,542 YAŚODĀNANDANA: The simple fact that the Christians 56 00:04:08,543 --> 00:04:10,982 have to sprinkle water to convert means 57 00:04:10,983 --> 00:04:13,633 that they do not have any potency to by philosophy, 58 00:04:13,634 --> 00:04:17,023 to preach to them with strong philosophy. [SPLICE] 59 00:04:17,024 --> 00:04:20,333 [break] “…have allowed us to wither away these different countries, 60 00:04:20,334 --> 00:04:24,753 and the religionists, they are keeping all the food. 61 00:04:24,754 --> 00:04:26,263 They are not distributing it.” 62 00:04:26,264 --> 00:04:28,043 If we say that the Russia has no grains, 63 00:04:28,044 --> 00:04:31,583 they will say that they are big wheat producers in the southern part. 64 00:04:31,584 --> 00:04:33,983 They may counteract by saying, “We also produce…” 65 00:04:33,984 --> 00:04:36,423 They had to purchase wheat from America. 66 00:04:36,424 --> 00:04:39,963 GURUKEŚA: Russia is importing its food grains now. 67 00:04:39,964 --> 00:04:43,723 So why they cannot produce sufficient, such a big country? 68 00:04:43,724 --> 00:04:46,833 And Eastern Europe, which is also communist, 69 00:04:46,834 --> 00:04:49,103 gets all its supplies from… PRABHUPĀDA: No, what is their explanation. 70 00:04:49,104 --> 00:04:51,763 Russia is the biggest country. 71 00:04:51,764 --> 00:04:52,813 Land. 72 00:04:52,814 --> 00:04:55,493 HARI-ŚAURI: The reason was that there was no rain. 73 00:04:55,494 --> 00:05:00,303 Then? Then you have to depend on rain, and when we say, 74 00:05:00,304 --> 00:05:05,303 parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ… Hm? 75 00:05:05,304 --> 00:05:07,894 And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ [Bg. 3.14]. 76 00:05:07,895 --> 00:05:16,244 That means, rascal, you take one side, that ardha-kukuti-nyāya. 77 00:05:16,245 --> 00:05:21,074 Cut the chicken half, and separate the mouth— 78 00:05:21,075 --> 00:05:24,504 it is expensive—and keep the rear side. 79 00:05:24,505 --> 00:05:32,734 You get eggs [laughter] So this is ardha-kukuṭi-nyāya. 80 00:05:32,735 --> 00:05:41,814 The rascal does not know that if you separate the mouth there will be no egg. 81 00:05:41,815 --> 00:05:44,374 They say that’s depending upon nature. 82 00:05:44,375 --> 00:05:48,394 But they do not know who… The word nature should be condemned. 83 00:05:48,395 --> 00:05:51,214 That…. No scientific-minded person can say the word nature. 84 00:05:51,215 --> 00:05:53,714 No, they do not know what is nature. 85 00:05:53,715 --> 00:06:00,964 Nature is an instrument, and there must be an operator. 86 00:06:00,965 --> 00:06:03,574 So that they do not know, the operator. 87 00:06:03,575 --> 00:06:09,284 Just like a child is thinking the motorcar is going automatically. 88 00:06:09,285 --> 00:06:12,644 He does not know there is a driver. 89 00:06:12,645 --> 00:06:16,474 The child sees that the airplane is flying. 90 00:06:16,475 --> 00:06:18,784 They think it is automatically going. 91 00:06:18,785 --> 00:06:22,694 And there is a pilot, he does not know. 92 00:06:22,695 --> 00:06:30,615 Similarly, these rascals, they are studying nature, but nature is an instrument only. 93 00:06:30,616 --> 00:06:36,345 It is being operated by Kṛṣṇa. 94 00:06:36,346 --> 00:06:39,965 Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. 95 00:06:39,966 --> 00:06:46,485 They have practical experience that without operator a machine cannot work. 96 00:06:46,486 --> 00:06:52,565 In the huge machine, how it is working unless there is operator? 97 00:06:52,566 --> 00:06:54,135 That they do not know. 98 00:06:54,136 --> 00:06:57,745 That’s what they never trying to find. 99 00:06:57,746 --> 00:07:00,725 Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [?]. 100 00:07:00,726 --> 00:07:02,935 Find out this verse. 101 00:07:02,936 --> 00:07:07,865 Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [?]. 102 00:07:07,866 --> 00:07:14,685 Mūḍha. Therefore they are all mūḍhas. 103 00:07:14,686 --> 00:07:18,715 So we are not going to be misled by the mūḍhas. 104 00:07:18,716 --> 00:07:22,825 That is not possible. 105 00:07:22,826 --> 00:07:29,805 We take the instruction of the topmost intelligent person, Kṛṣṇa. 106 00:07:29,806 --> 00:07:33,285 I think our Svarūpa Dāmodara has said that. 107 00:07:33,286 --> 00:07:35,265 Where is that book? 108 00:07:35,266 --> 00:07:41,975 He has given: “Kṛṣṇa, the topmost scientist.” 109 00:07:41,976 --> 00:07:47,235 Yes. “Perceiving the supreme scientist, Śrī Kṛṣṇa.” 110 00:07:47,236 --> 00:07:51,346 He has given this article. 111 00:07:51,347 --> 00:07:54,896 How do we know that Vedavyāsa is not defective like other living beings? 112 00:07:54,897 --> 00:07:58,586 Huh? How do we know that Vedavyasa is not… He is not defective because 113 00:07:58,587 --> 00:08:04,496 he is speaking what he has heard from Nārada. 114 00:08:04,497 --> 00:08:06,146 Therefore he is not defective. 115 00:08:06,147 --> 00:08:09,216 Just like we are speaking. We are not perfect. 116 00:08:09,217 --> 00:08:11,606 We are also ordinary human being, 117 00:08:11,607 --> 00:08:16,106 but people are taking that “Bhaktivedanta Swami has done wonder.” 118 00:08:16,107 --> 00:08:17,476 What is that wonder? 119 00:08:17,477 --> 00:08:19,696 I am speaking Bhagavad- gītā as it is, that’s all. 120 00:08:19,697 --> 00:08:21,996 Like the Mormon religion in America… 121 00:08:21,997 --> 00:08:25,456 PRABHUPĀDA: No, no, don’t bring any other…. 122 00:08:25,457 --> 00:08:28,246 That is… He claimed that an angel… 123 00:08:28,247 --> 00:08:33,556 If you accept…. We are taking from God. 124 00:08:33,557 --> 00:08:36,946 Kṛṣṇa instructed Brahmā, Brahmā instructed Nārada, 125 00:08:36,947 --> 00:08:41,426 Nārada instructed Vyāsadeva, and therefore we are taking. 126 00:08:41,427 --> 00:08:43,706 So it is a novel. 127 00:08:43,707 --> 00:08:46,867 Like Shakespeare wrote Hamlet… Yes. It may be novel for you 128 00:08:46,868 --> 00:08:51,197 because we take you as a mūḍha. 129 00:08:51,198 --> 00:08:54,097 We don’t give any credit. We say…. 130 00:08:54,098 --> 00:09:00,337 Find out this, mūdho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param [?]. I have this, 131 00:09:00,338 --> 00:09:04,237 mūḍho ’yam nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam [Bg. 7.25]? Hm hm. 132 00:09:04,238 --> 00:09:07,887 Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ 133 00:09:07,888 --> 00:09:11,407 mūḍho ’yam nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam [Bg. 7.25]. 134 00:09:11,408 --> 00:09:17,937 ”I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent.” Yes, the fools. 135 00:09:17,938 --> 00:09:23,527 He does not know Kṛṣṇa; therefore he is fool. 136 00:09:23,528 --> 00:09:24,097 Read it. 137 00:09:24,098 --> 00:09:29,047 “For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency, yogamāyā, 138 00:09:29,048 --> 00:09:36,957 and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible.” 139 00:09:36,958 --> 00:09:38,537 So who is fool is defined 140 00:09:38,538 --> 00:09:41,367 as avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ [Bg. 9.11]. 141 00:09:41,368 --> 00:09:42,797 Hm? 142 00:09:42,798 --> 00:09:47,447 Who is a fool, that is defined in the other verse, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. 143 00:09:47,448 --> 00:09:48,447 Yes. Mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri… 144 00:09:48,448 --> 00:09:56,198 That one who considers Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, he is mūḍha. 145 00:09:56,199 --> 00:09:58,278 So read the purport. 146 00:09:58,279 --> 00:10:01,138 “It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth 147 00:10:01,139 --> 00:10:02,528 and was visible by everyone, 148 00:10:02,529 --> 00:10:06,518 then why isn’t He manifest to everyone now? 149 00:10:06,519 --> 00:10:08,818 But actually, He was not manifest to everyone. 150 00:10:08,819 --> 00:10:10,228 When Kṛṣṇa was present there 151 00:10:10,229 --> 00:10:12,638 were only a few people who could understand Him 152 00:10:12,639 --> 00:10:15,628 to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead. 153 00:10:15,629 --> 00:10:17,208 In the assembly of Kurus, 154 00:10:17,209 --> 00:10:22,538 when Śiśupāla spoke against Kṛṣṇa being elected president of the assembly, 155 00:10:22,539 --> 00:10:27,068 Bhīṣma supported Him and proclaimed Him to be the Supreme God. 156 00:10:27,069 --> 00:10:31,178 Similarly, the Pāṇḍavas and a few others…” Sisupala could not see, 157 00:10:31,179 --> 00:10:34,728 although Kṛṣṇa was present there, but Bhisma could see. 158 00:10:34,729 --> 00:10:37,468 So you require special eyes. 159 00:10:37,469 --> 00:10:38,628 Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām [Bg. 10.10]. Yes. 160 00:10:38,629 --> 00:10:42,258 Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti- vilocanena santaḥ… [Bs. 5.38]. 161 00:10:42,259 --> 00:10:46,659 So unless you are qualified, how you can see Kṛṣṇa? 162 00:10:46,660 --> 00:10:47,679 This is the point. 163 00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:51,749 Kṛṣṇa is there, and the rascal Śiśupāla could not see Him, 164 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:55,419 but Bhisma could see Him. 165 00:10:55,420 --> 00:10:59,649 So they say, “Can you show me God?” Even God comes before you, 166 00:10:59,650 --> 00:11:06,159 unless you have got the qualified eyes you cannot see Him. 167 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,669 Therefore qualification required. Premāñjana-cchurita. 168 00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:14,079 When your eyes will be annointed with, what is called? 169 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,759 Salve of love. Ointment. 170 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,089 Salve of love. Ointment. 171 00:11:18,090 --> 00:11:20,809 Savoth? Salve, salve. 172 00:11:20,810 --> 00:11:24,529 What is the spelling? Salve, s-a-l-v-e. 173 00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:26,789 Oh, salve of love, yes. 174 00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:33,539 So that is required. Your…. Therefore tat-paratvena nirmalam. 175 00:11:33,540 --> 00:11:40,419 You have to make your senses purified; then bhakti will begin. 176 00:11:40,420 --> 00:11:43,859 Otherwise it is karma. 177 00:11:43,860 --> 00:11:50,239 If your senses are not purified, then it is karma. 178 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,129 There is a difference between karma and…. 179 00:11:55,130 --> 00:11:57,440 Premāñjana-cchurita… What is that? 180 00:11:57,441 --> 00:11:59,750 Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. 181 00:11:59,751 --> 00:12:04,820 If you think yourself that “I am American,” “I am Indian,” “I am brāhmaṇa,” “I am this,” 182 00:12:04,821 --> 00:12:14,470 “I am that,” then you are not upādhi- mukta; therefore you cannot see Kṛṣṇa. 183 00:12:14,471 --> 00:12:22,790 You can see Kṛṣṇa when you are no more within these upādhis, pure soul. 184 00:12:22,791 --> 00:12:26,200 Brahma…. That is real brahma-bhūtaḥ, 185 00:12:26,201 --> 00:12:33,600 to understand the position of the soul and engage the soul in the service of the Lord. 186 00:12:33,601 --> 00:12:40,360 Then it is perfect. Go on. 187 00:12:40,361 --> 00:12:44,240 “Similarly, the Pāṇḍavas and a few others knew that He was the Supreme, 188 00:12:44,241 --> 00:12:49,870 but not everyone. He was not revealed to the nondevotees and the common men. 189 00:12:49,871 --> 00:12:54,180 Therefore in the Gītā Kṛṣṇa says that but for His pure devotees, 190 00:12:54,181 --> 00:12:57,770 all men consider Him to be like themselves. 191 00:12:57,771 --> 00:13:02,720 He was manifest only to His devotees as the reservoir of all pleasure. 192 00:13:02,721 --> 00:13:05,880 But to others, to unintelligent nondevotees, 193 00:13:05,881 --> 00:13:09,530 He was covered by His eternal potency. 194 00:13:09,531 --> 00:13:14,800 In the prayers of Kunti in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [1.8.18], 195 00:13:14,801 --> 00:13:18,541 it is said that the Lord is covered by the curtain of yogamāyā, 196 00:13:18,542 --> 00:13:22,011 and thus ordinary people cannot understand Him. 197 00:13:22,012 --> 00:13:26,781 Kuntī prays: ‘Oh my Lord, You are the maintainer of the entire universe, 198 00:13:26,782 --> 00:13:30,931 and devotional service to You is the highest religious principle. 199 00:13:30,932 --> 00:13:34,221 Therefore I pray that You will also maintain me. 200 00:13:34,222 --> 00:13:38,161 Your transcendental form is covered by the yoga-māyā. 201 00:13:38,162 --> 00:13:42,111 The brahmajyoti is the covering of the internal potency. 202 00:13:42,112 --> 00:13:45,011 May You kindly remove this glowing effulgence 203 00:13:45,012 --> 00:13:48,811 that impedes my seeing Your sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], 204 00:13:48,812 --> 00:13:52,041 Your eternal form of bliss and knowledge.’ 205 00:13:52,042 --> 00:13:56,591 This yogamāyā curtain is also mentioned in the Fifteenth Chapter of the Gītā. 206 00:13:56,592 --> 00:13:58,551 The Supreme Personality of Godhead 207 00:13:58,552 --> 00:14:01,471 in His transcendental form of bliss and knowledge 208 00:14:01,472 --> 00:14:05,231 is covered by the eternal potency of brahmajyoti, 209 00:14:05,232 --> 00:14:10,921 and the less intelligent impersonalists cannot see the Supreme on this account. 210 00:14:10,922 --> 00:14:17,641 Also in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [10.14.7] there is this prayer by Brahmā: 211 00:14:17,642 --> 00:14:21,001 ’O Supreme Personality of Godhead, O Supersoul, 212 00:14:21,002 --> 00:14:27,191 O master of all mystery, who can calculate Your potency and pastimes in this world? 213 00:14:27,192 --> 00:14:29,882 You are always expanding Your eternal potency, 214 00:14:29,883 --> 00:14:32,592 and therefore no one can understand You. 215 00:14:32,593 --> 00:14:35,012 Learned scientists and learned scholars 216 00:14:35,013 --> 00:14:39,712 can examine the atomic constitution of the material world or even the planets, 217 00:14:39,713 --> 00:14:43,692 but still they are unable to calculate Your energy and potency, 218 00:14:43,693 --> 00:14:48,442 although You are present before them.’ The Supreme Personality of Godhead, 219 00:14:48,443 --> 00:14:54,102 Lord Kṛṣṇa, is not only unborn, but He is avyaya, inexhaustible. 220 00:14:54,103 --> 00:15:00,073 His eternal form is bliss and knowledge, and His energies are all inexhaustible.” 221 00:15:00,074 --> 00:15:03,369 end 222 00:15:03,370 --> 00:15:03,371 Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com