RC VRN 1976-09-29 Doctor--Fact, Faith, Foolishness
ANNOUNCER: Next is a conversation,
between His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda
and a United Nations Doctor,
recorded September 29th, 1976, in Vṛndāvana, India.
PRABHUPĀDA: So when we cannot understand things,
it is given in the definition of negation.
DOCTOR: But then it’s much better to worship in…
- God in form. - Yes, that is intelligence.
If you accept Kṛṣṇa immediately, man-manā bhava mad… [Bg. 18.65],
then your life is successful.
Kṛṣṇa says: Man-manā bhava mad- bhakto, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru,
mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te [Bg. 18.65]
He said.
But they are not interested.
avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]
“Kṛṣṇa is a historical person; why shall I think of Him?
I shall think of oṁkāra;” ah, you cannot think of oṁkāra; you can hear.
And as soon as you think of oṁkāra it comes from?
- There is no impersonalism. - No, no impersonalism.
It again becomes personal.
So they want to avoid personality
and as well as think of Him; it becomes a very troublesome job.
kleśo ’dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām [Bg. 12.5]
They think… cannot think of avyakta: Impersonal, but they are trying to think of.
Ah that is a very troublesome job.
teṣāṁ kleśala eva avaśiṣyate [?]
Such attempt means he sily… simply gets the result of his hard endeavor; that’s all.
He do… doesn’t get any substance.
- So with faith accept the… - No faith—it is fact!
Faith is blind.
- Faith is blind. - Yes.
Faith with good knowledge: That’s nice.
If you have good knowledge of Kṛṣṇa and you have faith, that is very good.
But if you…
Just like Māyāvādīs, they say, “Imagine Kṛṣṇa as God.”
They say, “Imagine.”
That is no good.
They’re no good.
Kalpana; they say, kalpana.
sādhakānāṁ gitarthaya brahma-rūpa-kalpana [?]
Rūpa-kalpana, but Kṛṣṇa’s rūpa is not kalpana; it is fact.
Kalpana is not faith; it is blind.
Let me imagine some form of Kṛṣṇa.
And therefore gradually, they come down
to the position that any form you imagine as God: That is all right.
They’ll have come to this degradation.
- That you can, any form… - Yes.
Any form you imagine that he is God: That will give you success.
They say like that.
I think I have taken too much of time.
- I am going there at six. - Words of enlightenment.
HARI−ŚAURI: Do a… any of Prabhupāda’s books? - Pardon?
I have got some; I bought all the volumes of translation of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
I have got all of them.
But some of them have not arrived from United States—the latest ones.
And I have gotten…
That’s very nice.
You are staying in New Delhi?
I stay in the Hague, and come to New Delhi when there are no cases.
Ahh.
- Hague? - Holland.
- Yeah.
That is the international court?
Yes; the court case located… The headquarters.
I went somewhere.
That is also international.
In Geneva, I think.
- Is there any…? - Geneva is a… another headquarters of the…
of the United Nations.
New York; Geneva.
But the a court… is a court is in… in the Hague.
Oh.
So I went to that place in Geneva.
In Geneva has got so many…
ah… specialized agencies of the United Nations, like the I.L.O.
Do you think United Nations
- is making any tangible progress? - Sir,
it at least brings people together under one umbrella to discuss.
- If you did not have that… - But discussion:
- That I have already explained. - Sir, maybe,
but if you don’t discuss, you’ll fight.
- No. - Because if… If A and B don’t meet at all,
- No; no. - then they will have the struggle.
If you have no idea how to come to the conclusion—ciraṁ vicinvan [SB 10.14.29].
You can forever go on discussing; you’ll never come…
You do not know what is the aim.
na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]
Maybe so, but if two people instead of coming to blows, come together to talk,
- No, they will talk… - it is a step in the right direction.
No right direction because he does not know what is the aim.
They both want to have peace
- so they at least try to… - No; that… Everyone wants that.
But if he does not know how to attain peace, then go on discussing forever.
That is going on.
But it is still a step in the right direction…
- I don’t think there is any advancement. - But other… Otherwise what is the aim?
Otherwise, there is, but you don’t take.
How it can be done?
Otherwise it…
In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated:
bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati [Bg. 5.29]
This is the process.
- But if you don’t take it… - But if that realization does not dawn…
- Till that realization… - Then you go on barking.
That is another thing.
It’s better to bark than to bite.
Then that is your satisfaction. You can do that peacefully.
One day after barking
- they will come to a conclusion. - No eh that is… Let…
Let it be known—fact— that that will never come.
If you do not know what is the aim.
That is stated in the… durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31].
This is… Eh… Eh… Means a bad hope:
That by this external exhibition of manipulation of energy,
they’ll come to peace; it is not possible.
na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]
adānta-gobhir… [SB 7.5.30]
andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31]
This kind of leading is made by the blind leaders.
If the leaders are blind and the followers are blind, what result will be there?
That is true, sir, but that stage has not come.
- One day it will come. - Yes.
But till that stage and that realization of…
No, stage is there.
But if the obstinate persons, they do not take it…
Here it is clearly said…
Just like Kṛṣṇa says,
sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg 5.29]:
“I am the proprietor of all the lands—all the planets.”
So how can you say no?
There must be someone proprietor.
But then God Himself has created the ego in man.
No, no.
- He has created… - Gos has created;
he is also the creator. -No, no; He has created ego.
That is a fact, but you are utilizing the ego in a different way.
- Because the realization is not there. - The reali…
He is giving the intelligence but you are not accepting.
- Maybe so. - Yes.
That is [the] difficulty.
He has come to give you instruction:
yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati… [Bg. 4.7]
When you forget, there is glānir,
discrepancies, in the discharge of your duties,
He comes to give you instruction, but you don’t accept.
Now [indistinct] be done.
The teacher is giving you instruction, but you don’t accept; then how you’ll educate?
This is going on.
mūḍho ’yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam [Bg. 7.25]
They do not accept.
They will write comments on Bhagavad-gītā in their own way.
You see?
Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
Yes; as it is.
Don’t comment in your own way.
You’ll not get any profit.
Take for example any law: Government law.
Can I comment in my own way?
No.
Then…
- Why you comment on Bhagavad-gītā? - The law is meant for obedience.
That’s all.
So Similarly, if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord then whatever He has said…
Just like Arjuna says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye,
yan māṁ vadasi keśava [Bg. 10.14]
“Whatever you are saying Keś… Keśava, I accept them in toto.
That is ac…”
Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com