Room Conversation about Marriage
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
September 24, 1968, Seattle

Prabhupada: I understand that she, she felt some inconvenience, that girl, in your company.

Govinda dasi (whispers): Harsarani! You’re making…

Prabhupada: So she was…

Tamala Krsna: I told her, I said, if she wished to come with us, [break] that only married women could come with us. I told her that. Because it was not good for men, unmarried men, brahmacaris and brahmacarinis, to constantly be mixing, and so I felt that it would be better for married people than brahmacaris. And she… (someone moves microphone) …did she wish to come?

Prabhupada: She likes this… (microphone noise) But also marriage problem, one must have a choice. So if we force something, that is not (chuckling) good. At least, in your country it is not… Of course, in your country, the husband…the boys and girls are, I mean to say, not major, whatever the parents force, that is another thing. When the boys and girls are grown up, it is not possible. Just like in India, there was svayamvara. Svayamvara means the girl will select her own bridegroom. That was allowed to princess. Princess, highly qualified princess. So the father would make a challenge, that “This is the condition. One who can fulfill this condition, I’ll offer my daughter to him.” So this was generally amongst the princes. So there was great fight. (laughs) Just like Arjuna. Arjuna married Draupadi. You know the condition? Her father made condition: there was a fish on the ceiling and one wheel was circling. So one has to pierce the eyes of the fish through the hole of the circle. And he cannot see directly. He has to see down. There is a reflection in waterpot. In this way, he had to pierce. (laughs) “In this way, he has to fix, and in one stroke the eye will be pierced. One who is successful, my daughter is for him.” So nobody could, except only Arjuna. He was such expert bowman that he… Similarly, Lord Ramacandra also made… In the palace there was a big bow. It was all hardened, made of iron. So long standing it was there. So one day, Sita was sweeping the floor, and with her left hand she pushed the bow. It was very heavy. Nobody could… It was very weighty, heavy. And with her left hand she pushed it. So her father said, “Oh, this is wonderful girl. She can lift this. Nobody can lift it and with her left hand she pushed it? Oh, then my son-in-law will be he who can break this.” (laughter) So he made a challenge that anyone, any prince, who will come and break this bow, he’ll be my son-in-law. So it was only possible by Ramacandra, Lord Ramacandra. So these challenges were made amongst the ksatriyas. Otherwise, generally, the parents would select. We were married. Whatever our parents selected, we accepted. I did not like my wife, (laughs) but gradually, I was accustomed. I was obliged to like. That’s all. (laughs) That is the Indian system. You like or not like, you have to accept it. That’s all. The psychology is that the girls, generally, before attaining puberty if she loves one boy, she cannot forget him. That is her psychology. And a boy also, when he is grown up, the first girl he makes choice, he also cannot forget. Therefore, by some way or other they are mixed up. So in your country the situation is different. You see? The boys and girls are freely mixing, and from school, college, they are freely mixing, free sex without any restriction. So we cannot enforce, at least, at the present moment. If some boy and some girl agree, then I bless him. That’s all. Now another thing, that girls should not be taken as inferior. You see? Sometimes… Of course, sometimes scripture we say that “Woman is the cause of bondage.” So that should not be, I mean to say, aggravated. (laughs) That should not be aggravated, that “Woman is inferior,” or something like that. So the girls who come, you should treat them nicely, at least. I heard that Gargamuni, after his wife left him, he became a woman-hater like that. (chuckles) That is not good. You see? Yes. After all, anyone who is coming to Krsna consciousness, man or woman, boys or girls, they are welcome. They are very fortunate. You see. And the idea of addressing “prabhu” means “you are my master.” That is the… Prabhu means master. And Prabhupada means many masters who bows down at his lotus feet. That is Prabhupada. So each, everyone shall treat others as “My master.” This is the Vaisnava system. So now, who is going with your party? That girl?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Srimati dasi.

Prabhupada: Srimati? She is going to marry somebody? No.

Tamala Krsna: No. She has already had three children by a former marriage.

Prabhupada: Nice if she does not marry, that’s nice. Anyone who has got children, he should not marry, I think so. Because marriage means not for sense gratification. Putrayate kriyate bharya, putra-pinda-prayojanam. To get nice son, that is the idea of marriage. Not for sense gratification. Those who are after sense gratification, according to Vedic scripture, they are, I mean to say, recommended to go to the prostitute. Therefore in Hindu society, still, there is a prostitute class. They are allowed… They do not allow it within the society. I mean to say, extravagant sex life. Especially spiritual life. Spiritual life means gradually forget sex life. Material life means sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex life because there is no birth, there is no death. That is stated in Bhagavata. Although the women are very, very beautiful, many thousand times more beautiful than here… Their stature of body, their everything, youthfulness, everything. But still they are so much engaged in Krsna consciousness, in chanting the glories, that they are not, I mean to say, influenced by the lust. That is stated in Srimad-Bhagavata, in the Vaikuntha. There are women. They also, men and women there is, and they also go by airplane, fly in the sky for trip, and all of them are devotees to Narayana, Laksmi-Narayana associate. So these things are described. So similarly, amongst the gopis also. So in the spiritual life there is nothing like this sex pleasure. And the more we forget sex life, that means we are advancing in spiritual life. So this should be the attitude, that women, Godsisters, they should be nicely treated so that they may not feel any… After all, they are weaker. That should be our policy. Anyway… And if somebody agrees to marry, oh, that is welcome. There is no objection. Marriage is allowed. And so many married couples, they are very nicely living. Those who have gone to London, they were not married in the beginning, and I got them married. Similarly, here also, Harsarani and others. In New York also, Balai dasi, Advaita. So if the boy and girl agrees to marry, it is very nice. There is no objection. If not, they should be given all protection. Is that all right?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. That’s how it should be. It is just very difficult, you see, to travel. I have… It is difficult to travel with these women in the way. I remember what you said to me that the, originally, you were most desirous to have just married people, and you would travel with them.

Prabhupada: That is very nice.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. So I was thinking that… And I was thinking the next best thing to that is just married people and brahmacari. If you can’t have just married people, then married people and brahmacaris.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is nice. That is nice.

Tamala Krsna: So that’s what I told her. It’s very difficult to have brahmacari and brahmacarinis all the time together.

Prabhupada: No. This is not possible. Because brahmacaris, they are young men, and they are young girls. Naturally, there is dis- turbance to the mind. Yes. It is just like putting butter pot on fire. That is stated in the Bhagavata. Nanv agni, pramadagni ghrta-kumbha-payah puman. Just like fire. (chuckles) Fire is a woman, and man is just like butterpot. It is said. Therefore they should not keep together. (laughs) Just like there are some labels in medicine and some…, “Keep away from fire.” Huh? (chuckles) “Keep away from fire.” So brahmacarini and brahmacari is not a very good combination. But married couple and some brahmacaris, that is nice. So this girl is married, but she is separated.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. And her children have been placed in the custody of the girl’s parents. So the girl does not even have custody of the children. So she is not in any way, so to speak,… She does not have to stay in this city because of her children because the courts have decided that her mother will take charge of the children. She has brought them to the temple on weekends. They’re very intelligent. They like to… Oh, they like the puppets. They like to paint and draw pictures of Krsna.

Prabhupada: But how she can travel with you? She has no husband.

Tamala Krsna: No. So what do you think? Is it all right for her to travel with us or better not to?

Prabhupada: Because she has no husband?

Tamala Krsna: No.

Prabhupada: Therefore it does not look very nice.

Tamala Krsna: Doesn’t look right.

Prabhupada: But in your country there are so many concessions. That is a different thing. But at least, in India, no… (laughs) In your country there cannot be any such restriction. In that way, she can go. But she is also, after all, young. She is also… Although she has got children, she is also young. She is not old enough. What is her age?

Tamala Krsna: Thirty.

Prabhupada: Oh, just young.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. I’m not worried so much how it looks in this country. What I’m worried about is the mixing. But people don’t care. The public does not mind.

Prabhupada: No, if you think her presence essential, you can take.

Tamala Krsna: Uh, it is not essential. We have never tried to have all brahmacari kirtana outside, sankirtana. We have always had some women, so I’ve always felt that we need women. But maybe we don’t need them on sankirtana.

Madhudvisa: Did Lord Caitanya have women, householders traveling with Him when He went on sankirtana?

Prabhupada: Yes. They were following. Still, sankirtana, they follow. But they have got their husband. Sankirtana, everyone can…

Tamala Krsna: Children too.

Prabhupada: Oh yes. Everyone. Sankirtana means assembly. Bahubhir militva kirtayatiti sankirtanah. That is the derivation. When many people assemble together and chant, that is called sankirtana. If you alone chant, that is called kirtana. And when you chant in assembly that is called sankirtana.

Tamala Krsna: I think that what we’ll do is take her along, and if it does not work out properly, then she can go to San Francisco. There are a lot of brahmacarinis there.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And what about this girl?

Tamala Krsna: Dina-tarita.

Prabhupada: Dina-tarita has gone. She is coming back?

Devotee (1): We don’t know yet. We don’t know where she went. She didn’t call us or leave any word.

Devotee (2): Very, very unexpected.

Revatinandana: She walked out with a sack and said she was going to do wash in a big knapsack and then she never came back.

Prabhupada: She should not have gone like that. If she did not like, she should have frankly told me. This is not good.

Madhudvisa: She was in correspondence with her brother, and her brother was had some problems with drugs, taking intoxicants, drugs, and she wanted him to come to Krsna consciousness and she was talking about sending him money to have him come to Seattle. So that made us think that she might have gone to San Francisco to try to bring her brother to Krsna consciousness. But she…

Prabhupada: If that is her idea, that’s good, but why did not tell us? That “I am going to my brother’s.” Nobody would have forbidden her. She has taken some money?

Tamala Krsna: Two hundred… How much was it?

Nara-Narayana: There was 200 dollars that… She was going to take 25 and send to her brother. The 200 dollars is not… No one knows where it is now. It has not appeared. And she had 30 dollars about of her own money. And this 200 dollars belonged to another girl that was going to give it to Upendra dasa for the temple.

Tamala Krsna: Temple. It was left on the table. Now no one can find it.

Nara-Narayana: No one knows where it is now. So she may have taken this 200 dollars.

Prabhupada: Then it is guessed that she has taken?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, it is guessed that she has taken.

Naranarayan: Uh…

Tamala Krsna: We don’t know for sure, but the money is not there.

Prabhupada: The money is not there, she is not there. So the natural conclusion… (laughter)

Tamala Krsna: I don’t think this would have happened if she could have come on kirtana. I don’t think it would have happened. But what could I do? I mean, I told her. It was not… You see what I mean? There was… This is a problem because it is… This kirtana is very nice for the women. They like to come on it very much. It immediately engages them. The first day they come into the temple they can come out with us. Yet it’s difficult because…

Prabhupada: Difficulty is that… If the women get married, then there is no difficulty.

Tamala Krsna: No. But if they don’t get married. When they are offered… Here is a woman. She was offered and… You see? It was suggested that she get married and because of her body she said no. She thinks she is, you know, she… That’s the only reason she could say no, because material reason. Not spiritual reason. She said no because of her preference, material preference.

Prabhupada: Of course, so long we have got this material body, some material consideration must be there. (chuckles) That is not possible to avoid completely.

Devotee (1): They shouldn’t force her to get married, though. That was kind of a bad choice that they gave her, “Either get married or don’t come on sankirtana.” You can’t force somebody.

Tamala Krsna: No, that wasn’t the situation. It was not that choice.

Devotee (1): What? You can’t… I mean to say that you can’t force somebody to get married. You know. That isn’t proper.

Prabhupada: There was no force. There was no force. Only proposal. That’s all. When it was proposed before me, I also said, “It depends on the choice.” So anyway, go on with your work, sankirtana movement you have started. It is very nice. And it is being responded. So increase it. If simply brahmacaris can do it, that is best.

Tamala Krsna: We would all like it that way. We would prefer it that way.

Prabhupada: Or married couple. If some girls want to go, then she may marry somebody. That will be nice. Of course, in your country there is no such restriction if unmarried girls go with you. But if she is married, that is better. So you make your choice in that way. So she is going? This girl?

Tamala Krsna: Srimati?

Prabhupada: Srimati?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. She wishes to go. I asked her, I told her, “So you have to get married.” And she just said, “Oh, I have been married. I just want to marry Krsna now.”

Prabhupada: (laughs) That’s nice. That is very nice. Yes. If one gets Krsna actually, he or she forgets everything. That is sure. Yam labdhva caparam labham nadhikam manyate tatah. After getting Krsna, nobody wants to get anything more. He is full. Svamin krtartho ’smi. “My dear Lord, I am now fully satisfied.” That is the preaching we are making, that everyone is trying to love something. Either personally his body, senses, or then expanded; wife, children; then family, community, society, and country, humanity; extending. But there is no, I mean to say, satisfaction. Because the real lovable object is Krsna. And when he goes to Krsna, then, oh, svamin krtartho ’smi. The same example: just like you are feeling hunger. Now, somebody told you, “Give food.” So you are trying to put food in the nose, in the ear, in the mouth, in the anus(?), in this and that. No satisfaction. You give it here, oh, fully satisfied. We do not know where to put our love. That we are teaching, best spot. Most valuable conclusion. But unfortunately, they are not…

Govinda dasi: It’s all right. Tamala, it’s ten after six.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, six. (end)