Room Conversation with Gaurachand Gosvami (Prabhupada converses in Bengali with guests for a couple of minutes) Prabhupada: Where is Ksirodakasayi? So that… You want to go immediately? Ksirodakasayi: Quarter to eleven I give the time to start from here to reach… Prabhupada: What is the time now? Ksirodakasayi: Twenty past… Devotee: Ten fifteen. Ksirodakasayi: Quarter past ten. Prabhupada: So you want the check immediately? Ksirodakasayi: We have to buy the stamp, Prabhupada? Prabhupada: No, the check will not buy stamp; you have to take money. Ksirodakasayi: Yes, I will give the check to the man and then he will give me cash to…, before we go to Mathura. (Prabhupada converses in Bengali with guests) [break] (in car, horn honking:) Devotee: Actually he planned them very nicely. Syamasundara: Is he willing to give us the rooms? Prabhupada: Yes. Yamuna: Oh, Prabhupada. Syamasundara: We should take them, I think. Devotee: I don’t (indistinct). Yamuna: We must take them, Prabhupada. Prabhupada: To ride on a car in Vrndavana. (chuckles) [break] (inside a building:) Price is fixed up at five thousand, then it comes to… Indian man: Minimum is five hundred rupees. Prabhupada: Why five hundred? Sixty… Indian man: Sixty-five rupees per thousand for the stamp duty, then court fees, and then other (indistinct) solicitor charges or the (indistinct) charges. So the last time… [break] Prabhupada: Yes. So… Indian man: Would you like to see the draft, Prabhupada, first? Prabhupada: Hm? Indian man: If you like it, then I can send that draft? Prabhupada: Yes, that is… I want… Indian man: You want to see the draft first? Prabhupada: Yes. Because if there is little to be changed, then… Indian man: But that is a rough draft I read last night. Guru dasa: But we should include that section that says that the front part cannot be used for any commercial… Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Guru dasa: That should be included. Prabhupada: Yes. That is (indistinct) [break] Thousand rupees? Indian man: No, eight hundred. Put it eight hundred. Prabhupada: Write eight hundred and sign, I will sign. [break] Indian man (2): A place for you, for a park, nice place for the ashram, on the parikrama path. Prabhupada: Yes. Indian man (2): Away from the town hustle and bustle and… Prabhupada: What is their demand? Indian man (2): Which one? I showed him… I showed two places. Which one? Guru dasa: The very large one right next to the road. The road curves like this. It is still part of that property. Prabhupada: You have not given that? Then change little. Not change—we have got addition that that portion cannot be used… Indian man: Yes, I do the draft work before I put it (indistinct). Syamasundara: The name of that place was Parasurama. Indian man (2): Parasurama? Syamasundara: Yeah. Indian man (2): I don’t remember now, I made the inquiries just then and I have forgotten. And I told Suba(?) dasa Babaji the exact amount that they wanted and so on. I think it was… I don’t quite remember, it was sixty thousand or what. For the smaller one it was perhaps forty thousand. Guru dasa: And the bigger one was sixty thousand. Indian man (2): Bigger one was perhaps sixty thousand. I don’t quite remember now. We didn’t talk with the owner, you see, but the people residing there, they gave an idea. We didn’t proceed further because Suba(?) dasa Babaji said unless Prabhupada approves it, he would not seek further. So hopefully that price that they demand, they will come to talk and we talk with the owners themselves. Guru dasa: Yes, but they’re eager to sell that property, the owners? Where are the owners? Do you know? Indian man (2): None of the owners are here, but I’m told one Mr. Lodiya(?)… [break] Prabhupada: …Vrndavana-dhama. Indian man (2): Situated (indistinct). (laughs) There is something going on always, you know. (laughs) Just now there is a controversy going on. One Krsna Caitanya dasa Baba has published a book, have you read that? Prabhupada: Krsna Caitanya is from Radha-kunda? Indian man (2): No, Prabhupada, (indistinct). He has brought out a book which is (indistinct). Prabhupada: What is that? Indian man (2): He says that this Panca-tattva principle, we should recognize that this we have borrowed from Buddhism. And there is no mention of Panca-tattva before Caitanya-caritamrta. Prabhupada: That means he defies Caitanya-caritamrta. Indian man (2): He defies Caitanya-caritamrta, he defies Caitanya-caritamrta like anything, right and left, right and left. Prabhupada: He is a demon. Indian man (2): Huh? Prabhupada: Then he is a demon. Indian man (2): But, you see, the trouble is he is well read, and he has tried to make a very good unchallengeable sort of a case, and I tell you that nobody from Vrndavana has yet been able to come out with a cogent reply. We have yet to find out an answer to two important question that he has raised: one, as to whether this principle of Panca-tattva has been mentioned anywhere in the works of the Gosvamis prior to Caitanya-caritamrta; and two, this (indistinct), whether this has also been mentioned anywhere before. Both these he says have been borrowed by Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami. They have been introduced under the influence of Buddhism, prevalent so much. Prabhupada: How he gives quotation from Buddhism? Indian man (2): No, he… Prabhupada: But he says from Buddhism. Indian man (2): He draws comparisons. He traces the historical background, and then the conditions prevalent…, conditions prevalent particularly in Orissa at that time Vyasarupa(?) Gosvami lived. Prabhupada: One thing is that he says that it is from Buddhism. So where is the authoritative statement in the Buddhism about Panca- tattva? That he has not mentioned. Indian man (2): No. He has said in Buddhism you have the principle of panca-saktis. Prabhupada: Sakti and tattva is not the same thing. Indian man (2): Well, yes. Prabhupada: Sakti is part of tattva. Indian man (2): But these Panca-tattvas… Prabhupada: Sakti also can be taken as tattva. Indian man (2): As tattva, yes. And these tattvas, Panca-tattvas, have been described as saktis. These Panca-tattvas also have been described as sakti. Prabhupada: But Caitanya Mahaprabhu as saktiman, and others… Indian man (2): As sakti. Prabhupada: Not all sakti; two Panca-tattva. Isavatara, tat-prakasa(?) avatara, they are not sakti. They are all the saktiman. Indian man (2): Yes, yes. Prabhupada: And only sakti-tattva, Gadadhara and Srivasa. And other three, they are saktiman-tattva. Indian man (2): They are saktiman-tattva. Prabhupada: Panca-tattvatmakam krsnam bhakta… Indian man (2): That sloka is from Svarupa Damodara, his kavaca, which he says nobody has ever seen. So it was very safe for Krsnadasa Kaviraja to quote the authority of this kavaca because it is nonexistent. And that is his only authority for the Panca-tattva principle. A mention has also been made of this in Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika, but he says that is not an authoritative work, that that doesn’t really… Prabhupada: That means whatever he says, that is authority. Indian man (2): No, but you see, he argues it out. Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man (2): He argues it out. Prabhupada: Argue, that’s all right. But this… Indian man (2): The trend is that, whatever he says. Prabhupada: Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika all the acaryas have accepted. Indian man (2): But there is a trend now not to accept it. You see, Radha-Govindanatha does not accept it. Radha-Govindanatha in his big work, he has…, he has not… Prabhupada: This Radha-Govindanatha, there was some protest against him. He has not accepted Baladeva Vidyabhusana also as authority. Indian man (2): He has not accepted. This point also he has raised, this man. Prabhupada: So this difference of opinion may be there, but he is also one of the…, what is called? Differentiate? This gentleman who has… Indian man (2): Krsna Caitanya dasa. Prabhupada: So differences are there, there will be always. So how one’s opinion should be taken as… Indian man (2): Yes. No, but you see, this kind of writing does create sort of a… It does give rise to… Prabhupada: So Vrndavana is the breeding ground for such things. Indian man (2): No, it’s not Vrndavana. That man doesn’t live here, he lives in Calcutta. The book was brought here. It was sent by him to some people, and one copy was directed to me also. Five copies were sent here, and I have the honor to be the recipient of one of them. (laughs) Prabhupada: How big it is? Indian man (2): A small thing, small thing, about eighty, ninety pages. So I was just going through it, I have been, and I will call a gentleman at two o’clock today with whom I shall discuss the matter. He belongs to that party. Prabhupada: Which party? Indian man (2): The author. Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man (2): The author, author’s party. Prabhupada: Author’s party. They have got a party here? Indian man (2): No party here, but this gentleman has given the foreword. He is the author of Thakura Haridasa, that big volume. Prabhupada: Oh. Indian man (2): Rama-(indistinct) dasa. A foreword in his name has appeared in this book, which he says he never gave. He never gave that foreword, but his name was given. And he has also published this in paper, and the author of that book has not challenged it so far. So his hands seem to be… Prabhupada: What he is, the author? Indian man (2): Krsna Caitanya dasa. Prabhupada: No, what he is, is he professor or what? Indian man (2): No, he’s not a professor. He’s just a sadak(?), you see, interested in reading and writing. Guru dasa: So if he will put the name on any foreword, then he can also create any theory. If that man did not give the foreword and he has put the name, he will create any theory. Indian man (2): Yes, of course, that’s what he is up to, that’s what he is up to. Guru dasa: And if someone doubts that, then they’re not strong followers of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Indian man (2): Yes. That is a great thing against him. Guru dasa: How can you doubt the authority? Indian man (2): I think he has got certain preconceptions in his mind and, you see, he just tries to prove them by collecting all sorts of data that will just fit into his point of view. Prabhupada: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gita. Indian man (2): From Gita. No, not like that. I would say like Brindarkara(?) wanted to prove that the…, that Krsna story and Krsna religion had been borrowed from West, you see, and they are a copy of Christ religion. Mandakara has done that.(end)
At the Radha-Damodara Temple
(Mostly Bengali)
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Vrndavana, March 11, 1972, (new98)