Room Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
June 29, 1972, San Diego

Prabhupada: So the Indians who are outside India, they have got a special duty. So far our economic condition is concerned, as I explained yesterday, that one is destined to certain material comforts and discomforts, according to his body—already he has got. So either you stay in India or you stay in America, the bodily comforts or sense gratification, that will be achieved either in India or America. What you are destined to achieve, you will have it because as soon as your body is manufactured, your standard of comfort and discomfort is also manufactured. In Bengal there is a proverb that yetha deoya bhange, kapala yabe sange(?): “Wherever you go, your fortune will go with you.” Fortune and misfortune, that will also go with you. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu said one thing, that “Any Indian, any man who has taken birth on the soil of Bharatavarsa, India, he has got a special duty. And that duty is to spread Krsna consciousness.”

bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara janma sarthaka kari kara para-upakara [Cc. Adi 9.41]

To do good to others, para-upakara. So those Indians who are here, it is all right you are earning for some economic development, but at the same time, you try to make your life perfect by Krsna consciousness and spread it to the foreigners as far as possible. That’s your duty, not that, that you are getting decent salary than India, and enjoy life and forget your culture. That is suicidal. You have got a culture… So this culture is Vedic culture and Vedic culture means Krsna conscious. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gita, vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [Bg. 15.15] Vedic culture means to understand Krsna. One who has not understood Krsna, he has no Vedic culture. But every Indian is supposed to have Vedic culture. And to have Vedic culture means to understand Krsna. Therefore all Indians, they should cultivate this Krsna consciousness personally, make their life successful, and distribute it to the, our neighbors. Of course, I do not think… If you invite your neighbors, they do not come, you said?

Guest (1) (Indian man): Obviously, they have got some other work, this, that.

Prabhupada: Hm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Krsna. Don’t waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Krsna, you should know about Krsna. And you can know about Krsna very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gita. So read Bhagavad-gita thoroughly. Try to understand it and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Krsna, to your personal self, and to the person you are speaking about Krsna. And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely, no illicit sex, no meat- eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Krsna mantra… You can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Krsna. It doesn’t matter where you are. It doesn’t matter. Everywhere is Krsna’s kingdom. Sarva-loka-mahesvaram. He is the proprietor everywhere. So if you be in Krsna consciousness, so wherever you may be, you’ll be with Krsna. And as soon as you remain with Krsna, you are not living within this material world. You are living in the spiritual world. So, especially I request Indians, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara: [Cc. Adi 9.41] “Anyone who has taken birth on the holy land of Bharatavarsa, India,” janma sarthaka kari, “just make your life successful by Krsna consciousness, and preach it.” This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s order. So if you take it you’ll be happy, your neighbors will be happy, the world will be happy. And Krsna-katha means to present Krsna as He is. Don’t misinterpret by us…, just like some rascals do. Even a great scholar known all over the world practically in scholarly circle, he has practically vilified Krsna by his so-called scholarship. Now he’s suffering. He has lost himself, we have practically seen. So that is a great offense, to vilify saintly persons or God. That’s great offense. So read Bhagavad-gita as it is, present it as it is. Then your life is successful. Now, if you have got any question we can discuss.

Guest (2) (Indian man): Swamiji, the four principles you were telling about, are they for purposes of just other-worldliness or is it for material gains in this world or what?

Prabhupada: No. We belong to the other world actually. We spirit soul, we belong to the spiritual world. Just like fish belongs to the water. Fish does not belong to the land. So if the fish is brought from the water to the land, it cannot be comfortable at any stage. It will die. Similarly you are Brahman, part and parcel of Brahman, particle of Brahman. So unless you return to Brahman, you cannot be happy.

Guest (2): But if we look at the world as it is today we’ll find that people who are the most powerful in this world are those who…

Prabhupada: Who is powerful? First of all let us see who is powerful.

Guest (2): Like United States, like Soviet Union. There is no other power in this world who can…

Prabhupada: What do you mean by powerful? Then President Nixon is not afraid of anything, do you think?

Guest (2): He personally may not, may be afraid of something, but as a country, yes, it’s very powerful. The whole world is afraid of them.

Prabhupada: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He’s also afraid. If there is war there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody’s powerful in this material world. Even if he’s powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody’s powerful. That’s a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.

Guest (2): Yes, but what I’m trying to get at is that it seems to me that if you carefully look at the world history during the past…

Prabhupada: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.

Guest (2): No, that’s not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.

Prabhupada: But I say that my challenge is nobody’s powerful. That is my challenge.

Guest (2): I mean…

Prabhupada: You mean, but that is not the fact.

Guest (2): It’s a fact, I mean, when they are powerful they rule the whole earth.

Prabhupada: Where is your Hitler? Where is your Mussolini? Where is Napoleon?

Guest (2): Yes, Hitler is gone, but then we have that U.S., you see. If tomorrow U.S. goes, maybe there will be Soviet Union.

Prabhupada: So that means everyone will come into power for some days; then it will be finished. That’s all.

Guest (2): Yeah, but all the people who are getting into the power are people who are having these four vices, you know, and…

Prabhupada: Therefore their power is finished. If you become sinful, then your power will not exist. Just like Ravana became powerful. He was so powerful that he dared to take away Sita. But he also became vanquished. That is the history.

Guest (2): Yes but people say that…

Prabhupada: People say, that is other… You see the fact. Nobody is powerful; nobody can exist here. For the temporary, say for some years, you may be so-called powerful but it is not powerful. We are concerned with eternal life. We are not interested in the so-called power for a few days. That is not our aim.

Guest (2): Yes, but if we say that everything is destined, like the moment your body is manufactured and…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (2): …everything is destined, then we are probably as well destined to be Krsna conscious or to be non-Krsna conscious, you know.

Prabhupada: No. That destiny can change. Sastra says… Destined means so far you’re… Suppose you are to get, say, one thousand dollars per month. That you’ll get. You try for it or don’t try for it, you’ll get. Therefore we should not waste our time for getting one thousand dollars. We should utilize the time for developing our Krsna consciousness. This is our philosophy.

tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah tal labhyate duhkhavad anyatah sukham kalena sarvatra gabhira-ramhasa

Just like nobody tries for becoming unhappy, but unhappiness comes. Nobody tries, that “Let me become unhappy.” But people become unhappy. Why? He does not try for it. Similarly, that happiness also, even if you don’t try for it, it will come. So sastra says, “You don’t bother yourself for worldly happiness or unhappiness. Whatever you are destined, you’ll get it. You try for develop your Krsna consciousness, which in other life, in the animal life, you could not do.” In the animal… [break] …advised… If the animal is advised that, “You become Krsna conscious,” he cannot do it. He has no power. But a man can do it. Therefore the man’s main business should be how to develop Krsna consciousness, not for so- called economic development. Economic development will come automatically, what you are destined to have. This is our philosophy. We don’t try for any economic development. All our members, we have no concern what we shall eat tomorrow, although we haven’t got any source of income. We are pushing this movement all over the world. We have got about one hundred branches and similar devotees are there, each branch, not less than twenty-five. What is that?

Devotee (3): Twenty in San Diego.

Prabhupada: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand—Krsna book. So if somebody’s kindly interested in Krsna, he’ll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Krsna, and Krsna’s supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don’t try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Krsna. But our main business is to preach Krsna consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Krsna mantra. So we are… There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how… We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Krsna is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Krsna and then everything is all right. Krsna is powerful. He’s omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So we are preaching this, that “You take to Krsna. Surrender to Krsna.” Krsna said. The same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven’t got to manufacture anything. We simply… Just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that “You become Krsna conscious.” We don’t talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don’t talk.

Guest (2): How can you separate out economics, politics…

Prabhupada: There is no separation. Krsna is the all-inclusive. Economic problem means eating, sleeping, mating or getting some money. So we are getting money. I have already given you account.

Guest (2): Yes, but… No. As far as ISKCON is concerned, maybe that is true. But supposing if you take an individual devotee, see, who is married and has a family and all that… He cannot…

Prabhupada: There are so many married families. So many married families. He is married family, he is married family, he is married family. They have got children, wife, everything. There is no problem. The children are getting nice education, chanting Hare Krsna, dancing, eating nicely. Just now we are purchasing one house in front of our temple, seventy thousand dollars for providing grhasthas. Husband, wife, children will live there. So we have no problem. The grhasthas are there, the brahmacaris are there, sannyasis are there—everyone is there. We maintain the Vedic culture, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, or brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa. The eight orders of social structure we maintain. But they’re all engaged in Krsna’s service. That is the distinction. Everyone is twenty-four hours engaged in Krsna’s service.

Guest (2): What are the ksatriyas of this order supposed to doing now?

Prabhupada: They are taking to politics. Yes.

Guest (2): Whom are they fighting? Whom are they going to fight?

Prabhupada: No, some of our members, they are standing for election in the government. Election. And we hope one day some of our men will become President. That is ksatriya’s business, to take part in administration.

Guest (2): No fighter? No fighting? They are not going to fight? They’re not going to become warriors, not like the real ksatriyas.

Prabhupada: Well, when you take part in politics you have to fight. (laughter) Yes.

Guest (2): I don’t mean that. I mean musti fighting.

Prabhupada: Well, if required, musti fight will be there. Arjuna, Arjuna was fighting. He was Krsna conscious.

Guest (2): Yes. But what I’m basically asking is what are these ksatriyas going to fight with?

Prabhupada: Ksatriya fought… Why don’t you take the case of Arjuna? He was a ksatriya. He fought for Krsna.

Guest (2): Yes, but in those days, you see, there is some kind of a clear cut…

Prabhupada: Those days or in these days, the same principles are there. Ksatriyas should fight for Krsna. That is his perfection of life.

Guest (2): Okay. Then the question is whom shall we fight now? Okay, supposing we are all…

Prabhupada: Those who are not Krsna conscious. Yes.

Guest (2): Fight in a real…, sword, fight with swords?

Prabhupada: The demons. Demons. Demons. Just like Lord Ramacandra fought with the demons, so similarly, Krsna conscious person will fight with the demons. That is already there. Demons and demigod always fight. Devasura-yuddha, you know? That is history. We don’t say that fighting should be stopped. We don’t say that. We don’t say that becoming Krsna conscious, nonviolence. That is bogus. In Delhi when there was not…, declaration of war between Pakistan and India, press representative came: “Swamiji, what is your opinion about this fight?” I said, “You must fight.” And it was published in the paper. It gave some agitation. They were glad. I said, “You must fight.” And that was published in big letters in… So we are not that kind of sadhu and Vaisnava, that we don’t take care of practical things. When there is need of fight, we shall fight.

Guest (2): Yes but if that is the case, you see, then the Muslim Mullah, or whatever you may call, says, “Fight all non-Muslims.”

Prabhupada: Well, Muslim… It is not the question of Muslims and Hindus. When there is right cause for fighting…

Guest (2): But what I mean is a Muslim Mullah can say all non…

Prabhupada: Well, why you are making…? We are talking of philosophy. That is applicable to the Muslim or to the Hindus or everyone. When there is right cause of fight, one must fight. This is philosophy.

Guest (2): Yes but what is the basis on which you decide whether a cause is right or wrong? There should be a common basis. You see.

Prabhupada: Just like aggressor. Aggressor. Just like you are living in this room. If somebody enters your room and attacks your wife, you must fight. You immediately kill him. That is the law. This is fight. You cannot see your wife being insulted before you. You must fight. You must kill him. That is the law. Aggressor.

Guest (2): Does this apply to the brahmanas?

Prabhupada: You should fight… No, brahmanas will not fight. the ksatriyas will fight. The brahmanas, ksatriyas, they are part and parcel of the same unit. Just like hand. Hand is the part of your body. When there is attack, you first of all spread your hand. So this is ksatriya’s business. When somebody is coming to attack you, you don’t put your legs, you put your hands. And the hand is raised by the order of the brain. And the hand and the brain is maintained by the belly. Why don’t you study your own body? As in your own body there is brahminical department, there is ksatriya department, vaisya department and sudra department… (laughter) But nobody is less important.

Guest (2): How do you define a brahmana?

Prabhupada: The brain.

Guest (2): That is for a man, but…

Prabhupada: That is for everything. The brain of the society should be brahmana.

Guest (2): By brain what do you mean?

Prabhupada: What do you mean, that you learn. You come to our school. Then you learn. You cannot learn everything in one minute.

Guest (2): (laughs) No.

Prabhupada: Then you just hear. Don’t make yourself laughing stock.

Guest (2): No, what I mean is brahmana means by birth or by action or…

Prabhupada: No, no. Not by birth. By action.

Guest (2): By action only.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (2): You don’t recognize brahmanas by birth, then.

Prabhupada: No no. Then how they are becoming brahmanas? They are not by birth brahmana? Why don’t you see yourself? They are brahmana.

Guest (2): So if there is a brahmana by birth, if he doesn’t…

Prabhupada: No, there is no brahmana by birth. That is not sanctioned by the sastra.

Guest (2): Oh, I see. So there is no real brahmana by birth.

Prabhupada: No. There is no… That is not sanctioned by the sastra. That is artificial.

Guest (2): I see. So according to you…

Prabhupada: Brahmanas means by quality. He must have the brahminical quality, then he’s brahmana.

Guest (2): So under these principles then, there are no brahmanas in India, really, then.

Prabhupada: Yes. At the… Not only…

Guest (2): Not all the brahmanas who are supposed to be brahmanas.

Prabhupada: Yes. We… Our… This philosophy, Krsna consciousness, according to the Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavata, we don’t accept brahmana by birth. We accept brahmana by quality. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. Quality and work.

Guest (2): What are your qualifications for a sudra?

Prabhupada: Sudra is serving others. Get some salary and be satisfied. That’s all. He has no more culture. That is sudra. He cannot live independently. Anyone who serves others for his livelihood, he’s a sudra. A brahmana never serves anyone, a ksatriya never serves anyone, a vaisya never serves anyone. A sudra… Paricaryatmakam karma sudrasyapi svabhava-jam. They want some service: “Give me some money, sir. I am helpless.” “All right, you work like this.” That is sudra.

Guest (2): So in other words, all dependent employees, they’re all sudras.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the statement of the sastra. Kalau sudra-sambhavah: “In the Kali-yuga everyone is sudra.”

Guest (2): :So only those who have independent means, then, would come in the…

Prabhupada: They can be counted, yes. Because a brahmana is advised not to accept service at any circumstances. That is the injunction of the sastra. He can take the profession of a ksatriya or a vaisya, but not the sudra. That is brahmana.

Guest (2): So whoever cannot stand on his own legs as an independent businessman or landlord or whatever it be, he’s a sudra.

Prabhupada: Yes. These are described in the Bhagavad-gita. I have not manufactured these things. These are sastra, that “He’s brahmana,”—the qualification. “He’s ksatriya,”—qualification. “He’s vaisya,”—qualification. “He’s sudra—by qualification.” And Narada Muni says, but we have to judge by the qualification. Yasya yal laksanam proktam pumso varnabhivyanjakam, yad anyatrapi drsyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiset: [SB 7.11.35] “These are the qualities of different caste. If it is found in other place, you should designate him according to the quality.” Just like a man born of a brahmana family, but if he has got the sudra qualities, then he should be sudra. And a man born of a sudra family, if he has got the qualities of brahmana, then he must be designated as brahmana.

Guest (2): What about intermarriage between all the castes?

Prabhupada: Well, intermarriage, that has introduced according to the social system. But so far we are concerned, we are allowing intermarriage from any country, any… If he’s Krsna conscious, we help him marry. There are so many intermarriages in our society. So try to understand this philosophy of Krsna consciousness and spread it so that there will be oneness—one God, one scripture, one nation, one religion—according to Vedic injunction. Not that we are manufacturing something. That is the Vedic injunction.

Guest (2): What is the speciality of Vedic injunction compared to Hebrew scriptures?

Prabhupada: Vedic injunction is, the ultimate goal of human life, to go back to home, back to Godhead. That’s all. This is not… As… I have already explained that this is not our home, material world. We are spirit soul. Our real home is spiritual world. So in the lives, different species of life, 8,400,000’s of species of life, they cannot understand it, that we are spirit soul, our home is in the spiritual world. They cannot understand it. That opportunity is available in this human form of life. Therefore if we don’t take advantage of this information and prepare ourself accordingly, then we are losing the opportunity. Tad api aphala-janma. Anasrita govinda-carana-dvayam.(?)

Guest (2): But how does this differ from the Hebrew scriptures? Hebrews also say the same thing, you know, that you have fallen down from the heaven and go back…

Prabhupada: But Hebrew… Hebrew, Indian, there are… The aims is the same—back to home, back to Godhead. The process may be different. The process may be different. Just like everyone wants some money. Without money he cannot exist. The process may be different, how he’s earning money. Similarly, every religion, the aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now the process may be different according to country, time, climate, men. That is another thing. But the… The same example. Either you are businessman or in service or working, craftsman, the aim is you require some money. Without money you cannot exist. This is crude example. Similarly, the aim is we are part and parcel of God. We… Unless we go back to home, back to Godhead, there cannot be any peace. That understanding is possible to develop in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore every human being should take advantage of this human form of life and develop this idea of going back to home, back to Godhead. Either you do it through Hebrew religion or Christian religion or Hindu religion, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. If your aim is… Just like at the present moment people want money. If he gets money it doesn’t matter in which way he gets the money. Money we must have. Similarly, the aim should be fulfilled. Either you fulfill it through the Hebrew or through Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn’t matter. But if the aim is missed, then you miss everything. That is the definition in the Srimad-Bhagavata,

dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah notpadayed yadi ratim srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]

Everyone has got his particular type of religion or occupation. That’s all right. Dharma. Svanusthitah pumsam. The result will be… By executing your particular type of religion, the result must be there. The result is “How I shall go back to home, back to Godhead.” If that desire is not developed, it is simply waste of time. You may profess this religion or that religion or this religion, or that religion. It doesn’t matter. You are simply wasting time by following the dogmas and ritualistic this or that. That will not help you. Phalena pariciyate. Whether you have come to this consciousness, “What I am? I am not matter; I am spirit. I have to go back to my spiritual.” That… That is wanted. So either you may be Hebrew or may be Hindu or Christian. We want to see whether that consciousness has arisen. If it is not, then you have simply wasted time. Either you be Hindu or brahmana or this or that, it doesn’t matter. Srama eva hi kevalam. Simply wasting time.

Guest (2): But in order to really get any interest in any of these things, you should really believe that…

Prabhupada: It is not a question of believe. It is question of fact.

Guest (2): …that there is another world and that you go there or you come back and all. This is a belief, isn’t it?

Prabhupada: It is not belief. It is a fact. One who does not know, he thinks it is belief. That is ignorance.

Guest (2): So how do we…

Prabhupada: You have to learn it. You have to become student. How do you expect to learn it for nothing?

Guest (2): Learn what? Learn that there is…

Prabhupada: That is the process, Vedic process. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham [MU 1.2.12] You have to learn. Just you learn so many things from teacher, similarly, these things also you have to learn.

Guest (2): In other words, this question of there being another world, it could be actually learned. There is no belief in word in that.

Prabhupada: It is a fact.

Guest (2): You could actually find out, experience yourself that there is another world.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes. Just like you have come to America. (laughter) Yes, similarly.

Guest (2): So you are saying there is a process by which you can see the other world.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Guest (2): Does this take a whole lifetime to learn?

Prabhupada: It takes only one minute. (laughter) If you are serious. If you are not serious, it will not be understood, even millions of years. That is the fact.

Guest (2): I see. It’s so simple, then.

Prabhupada: If you are serious, then it is a one minute’s business. And if you are not serious, it is not fulfilled in millions of years. That is the…

Guest (2): I see.

Devotee: What determines, Srila Prabhupada, if one is serious or one is not serious? What makes one…

Prabhupada: Well, this seriousness comes after many, many births. It is also not so easy. Rupa Gosvami says, tatra laulyam api mulyam ekalam janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate. He wrote a verse, krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih kriyatam yadi kuto ’pi labhyate: “The krsna-bhakti, Krsna consciousness, this thing, if you can purchase somewhere, just immediately purchase it.” Krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih kriyatam: “Just purchase.” Yadi kuto ’pi labhyate. First of all, if you want to purchase, the things must be available. Yadi kuto. Therefore kuto ’pi, “If it is available, immediately purchase.” Then next question is, “What is the value? What is the price I have to pay?” Then he said, tatra laulyam ekalam mulyam, “Simply your serious eagerness to have it. That is the price.” “Oh, that I can have very easily.” “No.” Janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate: “That laulyam, that seriousness, is not obtained after thousands of years’ pious activities.” It is so difficult. Janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate. People are acting piously, but that kind of seriousness is not available even after executing pious activities for thousands of lives. So that seriousness is also very difficult, to become very serious that “In this life I shall finish my business and go home, back to home, back to Godhead.” Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Krsna says, “After many, many births, when actually one becomes in knowledge, he surrenders unto Me.”

Guest (2): Are we all part of Krsna?

Prabhupada: Yes, we are part. Yes, we are part of Krsna.

Guest (2): If we are all part of Krsna, then what does it matter whether we really worry about becoming Krsna conscious or not? We already are part of Krsna, so whether we are conscious or not, we are there, you know, and it really doesn’t need any effort at all.

Prabhupada: Then you are part of human society. Then why you are trying to improve your position?

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupada: Why you are trying?

Guest (2): To be more powerful.

Prabhupada: Just see. You do not know. You have forgotten the power, part of Krsna. What is the function of part of Krsna. You are thinking you are part of this material world. That is the difficulty.

Guest (2): Yes, but that is what Krsna gave me, though.

Prabhupada: No, Krsna… You have taken it.

Guest (2): The moment my body is manufactured…

Prabhupada: Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Krsna says that.

Guest (2): Yes, that is provided He gives me that…

Prabhupada: Not “provided.” There is no “provided.” Krsna says this. This is Krsna’s order, that “You give up all nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me.” That is your business. But you are thinking, “No, I am part of this world. I must work in this world. I must have this. I must have that.” That is your thinking. Krsna’s order is, “Simply surrender unto Me.” That’s all. But you are thinking, “How can I surrender?” And that is your business. If you do not surrender, then you go. See to your own business. So whatever you are creating, you are creating by yourself. “Man is the architect of his own fortune.” So you are creating your fortune and misfortune, both. Krsna is giving you facilities. “All right, you want this? All right, take this.”

Guest (2): How does this tie in with the other thing, saying that if you are destined to get something, you will get it. But now you are saying, “If you want it you’ll get it.” These two seem to be contradictory.

Prabhupada: No, Krsna… Not contradiction. You have created your destiny. You have got a certain type of body. So you must enjoy and suffer. And again, if you want something, you’ll be offered another body. What is the difficulty to understand? Now you wanted something; you have got a particular type of body. You finish it. Now you want something more, you’ll be… “Give me another type of body.” Similarly, if you want Krsna, you’ll be given a type of body where you can go to Krsna.

Guest (2): I see. So you are saying that if you ask for something now, you may not immediately get it. You may get it in another birth.

Prabhupada: That is natural. That is natural. Just like these children. If he says, “Give me one boy.” Is it possible? He has to wait. (laughter) Suppose a girl is married. If the girl says, “Give me immediately boy,” is it possible? When she’s married there will be. Wait.

Guest (2): Maybe somebody like Kunti can do that.

Prabhupada: Well, everyone is not Kunti. So let us go. (end)