Morning Walk Conversation Dr. Patel: No, no, but even for Vaisnavas, sankhya… Prabhupada: Sankhya is required, but the cause of sankhya must be understood, cause of all causes. Sankhya philosophy is our philosophy, Vaisnava, because it was enunciated by Kapiladeva. Later on, the atheist sankhya, they wiped out God. [break] Na brahma na rudra ca. These are the Vedic mantras. [break] Koti-brahmanda-vigraha. Koti-brahmanda-vigraha. Innumerable universes are there in the body of Krsna. [break] Dr. Patel: Now they are not… The government is telling lies, that some people have come to work, and they have… [break] Prabhupada: …bindu sama, suta mita ramani samaje, sohe visere mana, tahe samarpala, abrahma yuga hobo kono kaj.(?) This is Vidyapati’s song, that “We are seeking water in the desert.” Tatala saikata. Saikata, means the sandy beach and very hot. So then water is required. But we get little water. What is that? Suta mita ramani samaje. In the society, friendship and love, we are seeking that happiness, and it is exactly like seeking water in the desert. Although there is little happiness, but what is the comparison? Vari bindu sama. I want water, but it is a drop of water. Vari bindu. Hare Krsna. So when there is requisition of water like seas and ocean, what this one drop will do? He admits there is little happiness, but this happiness is nothing that we want in comparison. Hare Krsna. Tatala saikata, vari bindu sama, suta mita ramani samaje, tahe visere mana, tahe samarpala, havana yughamala na kaj. Madhava amara pari nama nirasa (?): “Therefore, my Lord Krsna, I see my future is hopeless, and therefore I surrender unto You. There is no other way.” Madhava amara pari nama nirasa, tuhu jagad tarana, dina dayala, ataeva tohari varosa (?), that “I have no other hope. Simply hope you are.” Hare Krsna. [break] …is better, the breathing air. That side is… Indian Man (1): Now the wind is changing, this side. Prabhupada: This side is purva. Indian Man (1): No, this is east. This is north. Prabhupada: Oh, north. So here, this is purva… Indian Man (1): The rains will come from southwest. Prabhupada: Southwest, oh, yes. Dr. Patel: It has not changed as yet. Still… [break] Prabhupada: …even the sun, what to speak of other things, even the sun, the central point of this universe. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakrah. It is also rotating in the orbit by order of Govinda. Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. Hare Krsna. [break] …nama utila pi-asa nire (?). Now, if you live on the ocean and if you are thirsty, you cannot drink a drop. You will have to die. Nira kari vasa (?). Although the same water we are drinking. Is it not, Dr.? Dr. Patel: Yes. Water, water everywhere, not a drop to drink. Prabhupada: Yes. The same water drinking, but when it is purified by the arrangement of Krsna… You cannot drink. And still, you are scientist. (Hindi) Dr. Patel: One boy from engineers’ school of technology here in Bombay has found out a method of… Prabhupada: That is another nonsense. He will turn one cup of seawater into sweet water and it will cost some hundreds of rupees. Dr. Patel: That is right, but these fellows, they have found some natural way. Prabhupada: Well. Dr. Patel: He is passing it through this banana leaf, some very rational method. Prabhupada: Banana leaf. So that also required by God’s mercy. Dr. Patel: Nobody says that he does himself. If he says, he’s a fool. But what I mean to say is from that way… And the government of Ceylon has (indistinct) the world over, this method. There was a big row about it. This boy approached the Bombay Municipal Corporation (indistinct) they say… [break] Prabhupada: …scientist. Dr. Patel: Scientist, that you say. Einstein never claimed that he is… Einstein was a great bhakta. Einstein is the grandfather… Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: …of the modern science. He never claimed that anything can be done by man. Einstein has always said it is God who does it. Still you say that “Scientists are atheists. Fight them”? Prabhupada: No, no. Dr. Patel: I don’t think that is right statement. Prabhupada: No, no, there are many scientists like…, but generally they think in their way. Just like modern scientists, they are trying to prove: from chemicals, life. Indian Man (2): Jagadish Candra Bose, he was a great scientist. (Hindi) He can answer how many wise (?) He can answer. Dr. Patel: There is no question of… He cannot make even a grain of sand. Scientists, if they say that they are making, that is wrong. They are finding out what is already admitted. Prabhupada: No. Some of them say, “Now there is no need of God. Science is everything.” Even Dr. Radhakrishnan was saying in a meeting. Dr. Patel: No, what is science? Prabhupada: Science means… Dr. Patel: Science means knowledge. And knowledge is there. Knowledge means God. Prabhupada: Practical… Dr. Patel: But we are trying to honor the knowledge which we have not now known… Prabhupada: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gita. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19] When one understands, “Oh, here is the original source of everything,” vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19], that is greatest scientist. And how this knowledge comes? Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. They are struggling for the ultimate knowledge. So struggling many, many births after births, when, by the grace of Krsna, he comes to the real knowledge, then he admits, vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. Indian Man (3): (Hindi conversation) [break] Prabhupada: …and police is controlling by beating them. Now they will go to the office, and again they will come in that way. And coming home for two capatis. You see? That’s all. Dr. Patel: They reach their office at two o’clock. Prabhupada: Just see. And again… (Hindi) Dr. Patel: Modern civilization is the civilization of the indriyas. We want a civilization… Prabhupada: No, no, indriyas… Material civilization means indriyas, but it should be so organized. That is the Vedic principles, that you enjoy your indriyas in a systematic way so that you may not fall again, another difficulty. That is the Vedic way. Dr. Patel: The whole background of that modern civilization is indriyas. Prabhupada: Yajnarthe karmano ’nyatra loko ’yam karma-bandhanah [Bg. 3.9]. That civilization is yajnarthe karma. You work, but for yajna. Yajna-sistasinah santo mucyante sarva-kilbisaih. (Hindi) …modern science… (Hindi) …This is mistake. Indian Man (4): This is not the ultimate solution. Prabhupada: No, that is not. Dr. Patel: Ultimate solution, nobody knows. Prabhupada: na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah [SB 7.5.31] They are captivated by the external energy. They think by material advancement they will make solution of all problems. That is not possible. andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te ’pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah He does not know that he is bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and he is trying to solve it by his own method of material civilization. That is the mistake. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah, ahankara-vimudhatma [Bg. 3.27] They are all vimudhas, mudhas, duskrtina, mudhas. (Hindi) [break] He asked me, “What is the conception of hell?” I said, “It is your London. By artificial way you have kept it as heaven. But otherwise, it is hell.” So this was published. Dr. Patel: Bombay also is hell. Bombay, nobody inhabited this island till the Britishers came, and they created this spot. The importance of Bombay backward… Otherwise so far hell is concerned they are both place. Best is Bangalore in India. Best. Prabhupada: [break] Doctor can manage securing medicine, distributing. That is another thing. Indian Devotee (5): Actually, from his talk I could understand that he actually doesn’t want to do much. He said he will not be able to come and examine the patients even. Prabhupada: Then? Indian Devotee (5): He says, “You try to find some other doctor.” He told me, “You find out names and addresses of the local doctors, and we’ll pick one of them.” Prabhupada: No, no, we cannot divert our attention. It is not possible. Say, “No.” You can say that “We consulted Prabhupada. He said, ‘At the present moment, unless our building is there, we cannot accept any other extra business.’ ” Tell him like that. [break] Yasomatinandana: I suggested. [break] Prabhupada: For nothing. No, no, that is not possible. These are for the karmis, bodily concept of life. If government has got so many hospitals, what is the use of opening a teeny hospital by us? Vivekananda policy—to collect money by school and hospital. So you can tell him that “At the present moment, we are concerned about the sanction of the building and temple. So when the building is there, then we can consider, not at the present moment. We require money. We collect for this purpose. We cannot divert attention for medicine and other things.” Indian Devotee (5): Actually I could gather that he just talked because he also said that we should train up some devotees to do bandage and other things like that. Prabhupada: (laughs) No, no, this is not. Bhagavata: We do all the work, and he gets advertised as a great charitable doctor. Prabhupada: That’s it. Bhagavata: That he has opened the clinic. Prabhupada: Daridra-narayana-seva. We are not all these false things. Doctor Ghosh is also after daridra-narayana-seva. [break] We will collect medicine. Our… We shall pay for the expenditure. Our men will be engaged for bandaging. (laughs) Nonsense. Bhagavata: And the preaching stops. Prabhupada: Ah. They cannot understand what is the meaning of this Krsna consciousness. They are such dull headed men. They have no brain to understand. They are coming down again. Just like the dog’s tail. Know, dog’s tail. You may, however grease it… (laughs) They are hearing about this Krsna consciousness. The aim is the body, the dog’s tail. They are hearing daily about Krsna na…, but they cannot understand. It is very difficult. These karmis… Now they say… Because we are reading this Bhagavatam, now gradually they dispersed. Gradually they dispersed. They are not interested. Hare Krsna. And if you talk politics and all nonsense, oh, they will gather. yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma-ijya-dhih yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13] The go-khara class. You can say plainly that “For the present, we are not interested. We have got many more important business than this hospitalization.” Bhagavata: [break] …take Caranaravindam from the hospital. So before we left, we had kirtana. And immediately all the patients became happier. Prabhupada: Just see. Bhagavata: The whole attitude was very dull and unhappy and morose, that “Oh, we are in the hospital. My body, my body…” As soon as we had the kirtana, they all got out of the bed and they came and stood around and they watched and some were clapping and chanting. Prabhupada: Just see. Immediately life. Oh, just try to understand how much great responsibility you have got. Bhagavata: They all appreciated that we made this kirtana. Prabhupada: Even the Russians appreciated. (aside:) Don’t push it in my mouth. Satsvarupa (?): Oh, I’m sorry. Prabhupada: That’s all right. [break] “…bright-faced.” [break] They are surprised to see the American boys. “Are you Americans?” Do they not question? Yes. Completely changed. They cannot recognize. Is it not? Devotee: Yes. (Srila Prabhupada laughs) Bhagavata: They are only used to seeing the hippies. Prabhupada: Yes. Bhagavata: With beard and the hair, dirty. Giriraja: My parents telephoned last week, and at first they couldn’t recognize my voice. They couldn’t believe that it was me. Prabhupada: Then? Giriraja: Krsna consciousness has changed the… Prabhupada: So your father said that “I could not…” Giriraja: Yes. He said, “Are you sure it’s you?” Prabhupada: (laughs) Just like a lawyer. (laughter) Hare Krsna. [break] Mother is also very nice. Unless father and mother is nice… I told your mother also. Hare Krsna. [break] …she become beautiful, now there is lusty desire. Giriraja: (reading) “She frankly proposed to Krsna, ‘My dear hero, I cannot leave you…’ ” Prabhupada: She was a prostitute. She was a prostitute but engaged in Kamsa’s service. In India the prostitutes are engaged as maidservants in respectable houses still. During daytime they serve in some house, and at night they become prostitute. There are many prostitutes. One prostitute, when we were boys, she was coming to serve my mother as a lady barber. There is lady barber, for serving the ladies. And at night she was standing as prostitute. [break] …a good relation with the neighborhood. There was no enviousness. “She is doing her own business. That’s all.” Bhagavata: So then it is looked on as a necessity in the society. Prabhupada: Yes. Prostitute is necessity. Otherwise these rascals, they will pollute all the woman. Therefore, for the rascals there must be some provision. Just like opening wine shop. It is not meant for everyone. But there are drunkards. Unless they get drinking, they will create some disturbance. Bhagavata: So just like in Dvaraka there was prostitutes, and they were all devotees of Krsna. Prabhupada: Yes. There are many devotees, prostitutes. Bhagavata: So that was their service, not their service, but that was their work. Prabhupada: Yes. Bhagavata: But, still they were devotees of Krsna. Prabhupada: Yes, that is their profession, livelihood, but they are devotees. In Calcutta, there is a big temple. It is called Kaca- Kamini’s temple. Kaca-Kamini means she was a prostitute, but she was kept by a very big businessman who was dealing in glass, mirrors and all… So he has made a temple for her with glass and mirrors. Therefore it is called kaca. Kaca means glass. Kaca-Kamini. [break] …have a dispensary. Dr. Ojha. He thinks in this way people can be saved. That is also necessary, but not as necessary as this Krsna consciousness movement. Hare Krsna. Giriraja: Chapter Forty-two. The Killing of the Elephant Kuvala… [break] Prabhupada: We are speaking of Krsna. No Indians are interested. Just see. (Hindi) Dr. Patel and his company. (Hindi) [break] Hear about the expedition to moon but not about Krsna. What is that? Devotee: It came off. Prabhupada: No, it is all right. Devotee: There’s another one underneath. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
May 9, 1974, Bombay