Room Conversation Prabhupada: …even those who are farmers (indistinct). In India also. As soon as they get some education, they don’t want to be a farmer. Gurudasa: They’re going to the cities. Prabhupada: Yes. They will be satisfied to become a petty clerk and get some very little income. They will be satisfied. They don’t want to be sudra. That is the real sudra. They are satisfied simply by eating, that’s all. No ambition. Gurudasa: So somehow or other we have to attract some sudras to our movement if we want to work self-sufficiently. Prabhupada: So for the time being, what is to be done? We shall take it, then we shall see, find out sudra, (indistinct) better price. But we will require more land. Gurudasa: We will require a self-sufficient… Not only land, but we require a self-sufficient community. Prabhupada: That is wanted. Gurudasa: Because of Kali-yuga. And also everyone in Vrndavana that I mention that we are planning to have gosala, everyone likes the idea. That will be very popular here. Gosala, everyone, their eyes become bright. Prabhupada: Make at least gosala, keep cows. That is also profitable. Gurudasa: Yes, maybe we should do that. Prabhupada: One or two men may simply take care of the cows. Gurudasa: Maybe we should do that. Prabhupada: And grow grass, let them pasture. Gurudasa: Yes, and plant trees. Prabhupada: Yes. Gurudasa: Maybe we should do that. Prabhupada: Anyway, we have to utilize the land; otherwise what is the use? Gurudasa: Of course. Prabhupada: Suppose we invest one lakh of rupees. One lakh rupees means 10,000 rupees per annum, almost 800, 900 rupees per month in interest. So we must utilize it. From this monetary point of view, because they get bank interest, people are not very interested in land. Gurudasa: But you can’t eat money. Prabhupada: Eh? Gurudasa: You can’t eat money. Prabhupada: Ultimately that is the… (break) …somehow or other, but it must be properly utilized. Who will give me massage? Devotee (2): Oh, Pusta Krsna Maharaja. Prabhupada: So ask him. (break) …money. Gurudasa: My point of…, you can’t eat money means that if it is in the bank earning interest… Prabhupada: Eh? Gurudasa: My point was if it is in the bank earning interest, we may die at any moment, so what is the point of in the bank? But if we have some land and utilizing it, it is a better investment. Prabhupada: First you purchase, then we shall make program. For the time being, purchase. Actually that is money. Gurudasa: Yes. Prabhupada: When you sow it, it will bring more money. There will be no problem. Gurudasa: In the old system, land and jewelry was riches. Prabhupada: Jewelry for rich man, land for ordinary man. Land and food grains, that is money. So at our present status, how we can utilize this land? As grazing ground? Gurudasa: Presently I think gosala is more practical. Prabhupada: There is another gosala, they are not utilizing, Panchar(?) Gosala. Why don’t you try for that? They can give it free, that we shall… “Give us it, we shall utilize it for Krsna.” Gurudasa: We can try. Prabhupada: Find out who is Panchar(?). “If we do not use for gosala, then you can take it back. But we shall utilize it for gosala. So why don’t you give us the land?” Attached to the temple, we maintain a gosala. Gurudasa: That’s nice. Prabhupada: Still we shall require to grow some food for the cows and nice water supply. Then you simply keep the cows there. They will eat and drink and remain here peacefully. Only one room for watching(?). Indian man: (indistinct), he was complaining when I have last time… (break) Prabhupada: (Hindi) Indian man: I think he had given him the books for distribution. He is distributing them. Prabhupada: But he was to give one house and so many things, then he was to distribute them, whatever. Indian man: Huh? Prabhupada: (Hindi) (break) Devotee (2): …make sure they come back again. Prabhupada: (speaks in Hindi with Indian) Gurudasa: Also in Vrndavana we are here to stay, no matter what the people say. Indian man: Yes. Prabhupada: (Hindi conversation for several minutes) Indian man: Accha. He is not a (indistinct)? Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man: He is not a (indistinct)? Prabhupada: You do not know? Indian man: No, I don’t know. I think he is a graduate. Huh? He’s not even a graduate? (Prabhupada chuckles) I was told that he was a graduate long ago, you see, when I used to go to Calcutta, the Gaudiya Math there. Prabhupada: Anyway… Indian man: And Bon Maharaja also has told he is a graduate. What is he? Prabhupada: What is he? Indian man: Bon Maharaja, graduate? He is Karachi (indistinct). Prabhupada: No, I don’t think so. Anyway, so (Hindi). Bon Maharaja is a (Hindi), very important. Indian man: (Hindi) Prabhupada: Accha. (Hindi) (break) Devotee (2): Before I came, we had one big festival in Geneva for two days, Saturday and Sunday. Each night over 500 people. It was nice. Geneva’s not very big. Prabhupada: Geneva is important town. Devotee (2): Important, not very big though. Prabhupada: International town. Devotee (2): Yes. Prabhupada: When I was going to London from Bombay…, no, no, when I was going to Switzerland, I think I stopped at Geneva. Devotee (2): Zurich. You were in Zurich. Prabhupada: Zurich, before that I stopped at Geneva. I saw the airport, very big airport. Then I went to Zurich. And from Zurich I went to some Mount St…. Devotee (2): St. Hellish. Prabhupada: You have been there? You are right, St. Hellish. (unclear) Devotee (2): (laughs) Syamasundara. Prabhupada: Yes, Syamasundara, “Oh, I have to…” He spent money for that. I thought “It is hellish.” (laughter) Always covered with snow, I could not get out. Two days I was imprisoned in that hotel room. But people go there. Yamuna: For health. Prabhupada: Eh? Yamuna: For their health. Prabhupada: What is the health there? But one wonderful I saw from there. Down 10,000 feet, (indistinct) hill. Devotee (2): Mountain. Prabhupada: Mountain, yes. Down I saw the railway is going on… (break) …has entered the sky. That is (indistinct). That is (indistinct). And the railway is very nice. Not like Darjeeling. Indian man: You have to leave just now? Prabhupada: Yes. I was to leave this morning, but I was to eat Yamuna’s cooking. Cooking was very nice, but I had no appetite. Yamuna: Appetite. No appetite. Prabhupada: From yesterday lost my appetite. Devotee (3): Because I was massaging you from yesterday. Prabhupada: (chuckles) No, that’s not. It is Krsna’s grace to have less appetite, I think. Less sleep, less appetite, it is good. Nidrahara-viharakadi-vijitau. They conquered over, but I have not conquered it. By Krsna’s grace, it is reduced. Devotee (2): May I have the key to the almirah, put these books away? Prabhupada: Yes. You have got the duplicate key? So I can take this key? Gurudasa: Yes, I’ve given it to Gunarnava just now. Prabhupada: Eh? Gurudasa: I’ve given it to Gunarnava this morning, the duplicate. Prabhupada: Oh. Yamuna: So I will not live in this place. Prabhupada: Eh? Yamuna: I will not live in your house, but I will work here. Because there is some objection from the boys, a lady living here. Prabhupada: (speaks Hindi with Indian man) Indian man: So he doesn’t have any first hand in publishing. Prabhupada: (Hindi) All the gosvamis, all Radha-Ramana gosvamis? Indian man: No, not all Radha-Ramana gosvamis. The Radha- Ramana gosvamis are represented by… Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man: They were represented by (indistinct) Gosvami and (indistinct) Gosvami, but the gosvamis of the other temples. Prabhupada: Madana-Mohana Gosvami. Yamuna: Radha-Damodara’s were there? Indian man: Radha-Damodara was there. Yamuna: Yesterday Madana-Mohana Gosvami was little bit rude, yesterday. Prabhupada: Accha? To you? Yamuna: Yes. Prabhupada: What did he say? Yamuna: He was angry because he had locked the door and locked me outside, and I knocked on the door until he came, and he was angry. He was a little rude. So I could tell something was wrong. Gurudasa: Because usually he is not so rude. Prabhupada: Eh? Gurudasa: Usually he is not rude. Yamuna: He is never harsh. He was a little harsh. I could tell something was wrong. Prabhupada: So they are planning something. Indian man: I don’t know exactly. I’ve not been able to make out what their plans are exactly because they don’t tell me everything. Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man: They don’t tell me everything. They have something up their sleeves. I don’t know what. Gurudasa: So what should be our… Prabhupada: Madana-Mohana Gosvami, other time he was not harsh? Yamuna: Not to me. To Gurudasa maybe, but never me. Prabhupada: But this time he was harsh? Yamuna: Yes, very harsh. Prabhupada: What did he say? Yamuna: He was yelling. Prabhupada: Eh? Yamuna: He was yelling, raising his voice. He wasn’t speaking in a quiet tone, he was yelling at me, “Why you are disturbing my seva-puja by making me come to the door?” I said, “I am engaged in Vaisnava seva as well. Vaisnava seva and Krsna seva. You please excuse me.” I was very courteous, but he was harsh. Prabhupada: So he was on the door? Yamuna: Yes. Prabhupada: Madana-Mohana temple door? Yamuna: Yes, putting the wooden bolt so I can’t come inside. Yesterday this was. After leaving here for pravacana and going there, he had locked the gate. Then I knocked until he came. Prabhupada: Madana-Mohana Gosvami or Radha-Ramana? Yamuna: No, Madana-Mohana Gosvami. Prabhupada: So what business you have to go to Madana-Mohana temple at that time? Yamuna: Madana-Mohana Gosvami of Radha-Damodara temple. Prabhupada: Ohhhh. Yamuna: Gaurachand’s other side, where we live. Prabhupada: Ah, Madana-Mohana Gosvami. I thought from Madana- Mohana temple. Yamuna: No. Prabhupada: Well, what about this Gaurachand Gosvami? Yamuna: He is calling for Gurudasa sometimes. We don’t speak so much. I don’t see him because he isn’t doing worship for the Deity of Damodara any more. So he is quiet, stays in the background. I think he wants sometimes a little money. Prabhupada: Hm? Yamuna: I think he is having a little difficulty with money, so he asks sometimes. Prabhupada: Some help? Yamuna: Sometimes. Prabhupada: Does he? Gurudasa: Not very often; sometimes. Yamuna: Otherwise we don’t see so much. But now I find he moved from Damodara. Gurudasa: The last time I saw him, he said he wants Panchu to work for us. He said he… Prabhupada: So what he will work? What he will work? Gurudasa: He says he will do anything. Prabhupada: Anything, but what anything? What? Gurudasa: Right now we have no work except construction. So what should I tell him when I see him? Prabhupada: What about? Gurudasa: If he asks what about Panchu working there? Prabhupada: So what kind of work you can provide? Is there any work for him? Gurudasa: Only now construction. Prabhupada: The construction, what he will do? He has no experience. Now see this gosvami, worshiping Deity, now he has no worshiping job: “Give me construction work.” Gurudasa: When we start our Deity program, should we…? Prabhupada: No, no. Gurudasa: No pay? Prabhupada: No pay, neither… He smokes. Gurudasa: Suppose he will join us and shave head and give up bidis, then he can… Prabhupada: That will take six life. (laughter) Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. It is not so easy. It is not so easy. To give up all these things, it is only by Krsna’s grace. But they are not meant for that. But for money’s sake, business sake, they can take any shape. That is another thing. At least they will not be able to give up bidis. That is not possible. They may be gosvami for everything, not for bidi. (speaks Hindi with Indian man briefly) Indian man: So Prabhupada, I have an engagement at 4:30. I came only to see you because Nirvasi told me that you were leaving. Prabhupada: (indistinct) (Hindi) Gurudasa: So is there any instructions about this gosvami business that you have? Prabhupada: Gosvami business? What gosvami business? Gurudasa: These gosvamis of Vrndavana, that are agitated. Prabhupada: No, I have not received any letter from them. Unless we receive a letter, how we can say anything? Indian man: I have told Purushottam(?) Gosvami… Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man (2): I have told Purushottam(?) Gosvami and the other gosvamis also that Prabhupada is in a very conciliatory mood, and if you make a proper approach, he is prepared to make proper amends for whatever has been taken in (indistinct). Prabhupada: Yes. Indian man (2): But the approach should be proper. Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man (2): The approach should be proper. Prabhupada: Yes. You told him? Indian man (2) Yes. Prabhupada: Yes. Indian man (2): I told him about the drafts, you see, that you made the other day. I said, “Prabhupada has only agreed. It was so magnanimous of him, so magnanimous.” Prabhupada: Yes, I told you Friday, you write, I shall sign it. And why they are agitating and stopped such a function? And that is very regrettable. Gosvami means vaco vegam krodha-vegam visaheta. If there is some krodha, you should tolerate. Now here is a Vaisnava, he has done so much for Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and the reception was there, and he stopped. How he is gosvami? He expressed his krodha in that very moment, just to take retaliation. It is not gosvami. What do you think? Krodha-vegam. It is a krodha, but he could not tolerate that krodha-vegam. He retaliated at the right moment and to a person, fit person who was to be honored. Just see. And he claims to be gosvami. The first business is vaco vegam krodha-vegam. The Vaikuntha mentality is that if one is serving—I have read it in Bhagavata—Krsna better than somebody else, he would simply appreciate that “Krsna has so much favored him. Oh, how fortunate he is. When I shall be able?” That is Vaikuntha mentality. And the material mentality is, “Oh, he has advanced so much. How to come down him?” That is material. This is the difference between Vaikuntha mentality. So his business is how to come down. So he is not a gosvami. At least I will not accept. What do you think? Am I right or wrong? Indian man (2): (indistinct) Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man (2): What shall I say? (chuckles) Prabhupada: This is the definition of gosvami. Vaco vegam krodha-vegam udaro-vegam pastha-vegam etan manasah vegam, etan vegan visaheta dhirah prthivim sa sisyat. So he has not proved to be very dhira. Dhiradhira-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau. So that is my regret, that these people cannot appreciate the service of a Vaisnava. They are simply personally interested. Personally interested is materialistic way of life. Everybody is personally interested. Indian man (2): I think after he returns he will do something. Prabhupada: Eh? Indian man (2): He might do something after he returns. Prabhupada: All right, we shall see to it. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Vrndavana, May 20, 1974, (new98)