Room Conversation Devotee: …kama-raja-vivarjitam, dharmaviruddho bhutesu kamo ’smi bharatarsabha. Prabhupada: Hm. Devotee: (reads translation to Bg. 7.11 in German) Prabhupada: Sex life, married couple, that is alright, not otherwise, that is sinful. Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, just this objection was that in this statement of Bhagavad-gita doesn’t clearly say no reason you should not have sex life outside of married life, they say they state religious principles, but this is… Prabhupada: Religious principles means married life, otherwise cats and dogs. What is this? If everyone has without any limitation sex life, then what is the difference between cats and dogs? Religion means you are not cats and dogs because religion is in the human society, not in the cats and dogs’ society. Guest: (indistinct) Prabhupada: Yes, in the spiritual life there is no sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex intercourse. There is no sex life. Although there is man and woman, there is no sex intercourse. By chanting the glories of God there in the spiritual world, they get so much great pleasure that is far beyond this pleasure of sex life. If you have something best then you forget low grade pleasure. So this sex pleasure is lower grade pleasure. It is not pleasure, it is illusion, but in material world this is the greatest pleasure. Therefore everyone they are coming back to this sex pleasure, everyone. Even so-called religionists and swamis, they are coming down to the sex pleasure. Because in this material world that is the only highest pleasure. So, so long one will be attracted by the sex pleasure it is still in the material world. And when one will be on the platform to spite (spit) on sex pleasure, then his spiritual life begins. That is stated by Yamunacarya. (Sanskrit). Yamunacarya, a great saintly person, he was formerly big king, so he said, “Since I have become Krsna conscious and enjoying, since that time, as soon as I remember even sex life, I spite (spit) on it and my mouth becomes turned.” (laughter) This is the test. Not that you become very advanced spiritualist and at the same time advance in sex life. That is not. (Sanskrit) That is the test that as soon as you are advanced in spiritual life, all these materialistic habits will be rejected automatically. This is the test. Four things are material demands— eating, satisfaction of the tongue or belly and satisfaction of the genital, ahara, and sleeping and to become a good defender, defense measure. These are material necessity. And the one who is spiritually advanced, these things will be reduced, almost nil. What Christ says, Jesus Christ about sex life? What does he say? Devotee: Only in the married life. Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee: Only. Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee: And in the future it will pass completely. Devotee: So even if you are married sex life can be material too. Prabhupada: Yes. That is also regulated. When the wife is menstrual period, so after five days you can have sex life and as soon as she is pregnant, no more sex life. So, sex life is meant for progeny, not for sense pleasure. Even the animals, dogs, cats, they have a period for sex life and as soon as the female dog is pregnant, no more sex life. In certain months of the year they have sex life, not all the year. So even the dogs they follow regulation and we human being, we do not follow. The dogs have no restriction. The female dogs are naked and they can capture anyone, anywhere, but they do not have unless there are certain period. Hare Krsna. Therefore in spiritual life restricted regulated sex life, is essential. Devotee: Religious is automatically regulated sex life? Prabhupada: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Krsna. [break] Samah sarvesu bhutesu. samah sarvesu, mad-bhaktim labhate. That is the stage of making advancement in devotional life. Equality. Equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual life. Otherwise the United Nations will never be able to unite. That is not possible. (indistinct) If they unite, if they try to unite on Krsna consciousness, then. Otherwise…. We are all part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are all differently dressed, although we are one. (indistinct) Now just like you are Canadian, I am Indian. (indistinct). There are crows, there are pigeons, there are sparrows (indistinct). Why they are not quarreling? Simply you are designated European, Indian and Canadian, German, so we have to give up this designation. Then they will be united. Otherwise, but they are very much proud of these designations. Therefore, bhakti means sarvopadhi vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When one is completely free from designation. The designation is (indistinct). And the whole world is being ruled by designation, “I am Indian”, (indistinct). Aham mameti [SB 5.5.8] Guest: There is a hierarchy of consciousness, of course, but it’s not… Prabhupada: (indistinct) if I try to develop my consciousness with designation, it will not be (indistinct) It will not be effective at least in the matter of advancing spiritual consciousness. That you have to see (indistinct). Now in our Krsna consciousness movement we have got men from all parts of the world, but they are not thinking in terms of their original national designation. They do not think that they are American or Indian or so on, or Hindu, Gujarati(?), ksatriya. Guest: Of course there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness (indistinct). Prabhupada: That consciousness will not help you… Guest: It won’t. Prabhupada: …that will rather check you. Guest: Yes, exactly. Prabhupada: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, yam yam vapi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram. At the time of death if I die with designation, then I will have to accept again the body. The mind if it contains contamination, he gets different types of bodies on account of mind being contaminated. Guest: Contaminated? Prabhupada: Yes. Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to…. By nature’s law. Karanam guna-sango ’sya. Because mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, (indistinct). There are three qualities—sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna and mixed up. At first mixing it becomes nine and again mixing up it becomes 81. Each quality there are thousands and thousands of varieties and that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of life. So, it is by the God’s law, nature’s law, they take account of the particular color and award the quality. It is not man-made law. That there may some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, whether small pox or whatever or (indistinct), you must develop. Therefore desireless. Desireless means material desires. Material desires begins with this designation. Just like the child, he has got a childish body and he plays like a child. The same child when he’ll get a youthful body (indistinct). The soul is the same but on account of the type of the body, he is acting. This is material. Small child in the childhood talks like nonsense, people enjoy it. But the same child when he is grown up, if he talks like a nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed, the circumstances have changed. This is (indistinct) that we have changed this body and on account of the bodily situation we are acting different. That they do not understand. There is not school or college, they do not know about the soul and soul changing different positions, different bodies. In this way he remains materially entangled and the real relief is to get out of this bodily consciousness and advance in spiritual life. Guest: So, bhakti is really a process of decontaminating the mind? Prabhupada: Yes. (indistinct) That is the real education. And all this rascal education will not help because all this education will keep you within this material body. The real relief is how to get you out of this material entanglement. Tyaktva deham punar janma [Bg. 4.9]. (indistinct) After giving up this material body, no more acceptance of this material body. That is real education. And Bhagavata says pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat, gurur na sa syat, na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum. There is no need of becoming father unless you train up your child to accept no more this material body. The child should be trained up by the father. The guru should train up the disciple in such a way that the disciple or the child or the student will not have to accept any more material body. (indistinct) The whole Vedic education system how to stop acceptance of material body. That is called mukti. Mukti, the definition of mukti is given in the Bhagavata, muktir hitvanyatha rupam. Mukti means when one is able to give up another form of body. He has got his own body, spiritual body, but so long as he has to accept another form of body, he is conditioned. Bhagavata, muktir hitvanyatha rupam sva-rupena vyavasthitih. Mukti means to stay in his original spiritual form. Krsna consciousness movement is to educate people how to achieve the original consciousness, that is Krsna consciousness. Guest: Yes. Well, but this in one form or another is the aim of any true tradition. Prabhupada: True? Guest: Tradition, religion. Prabhupada: No. Guest: Every teaching. Prabhupada: (indistinct) tradition, they are all material. They are also designation. I’m thinking I am Hindu, you are thinking Christian, he is thinking this, these are all designation. Guest: Within each of these there is the esoteric. Prabhupada: Whatever it may be. Guest: Whatever it is… Prabhupada: It is material. Therefore Krsna says, sarva dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. “Give up all these types of false religions.” Mam ekam saranam vraja. That means come to Krsna consciousness. Ekam, anyone. So unless one becomes fully Krsna conscious, he’s in trouble. (indistinct) And our difficulty is that when we want to convince a person on Krsna consciousness, he thinks that I am Hindu, I am Christian, I am Mohammedan. I am trying to proselytize, that is (indistinct). Guest: No, it was not that I was really saying. Rather that what I have heard from others comes to the same thing as you were saying. Prabhupada: Others, if they try for the same thing, then it is alright. Because that type of religion, that system of religion, is first-class which teaches people to come to the platform of God consciousness, to love God, then that is first-class religious system. It doesn’t matter what is the designation. (indistinct) Guest: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in you under many influences, I think. Prabhupada: Huh? Guest: Under many influences. Prabhupada: No, influence should be only Krsna or God. Krsna, when we speak of Krsna, God, but they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act. Where does He live. What is His form. What is his color. Nobody knows. Ask any religious people, “Do you know about all these?” (tape too faint to hear) (indistinct) If they think about it at all. First of all, generally they think of something impersonal or void. The Buddhists they think God is zero. And others they think God has no form. So, two classes. The Hindus they think God has not particular form, (indistinct). And you can imagine any of them(?) That is Sankara. The pancopasana. But still Sankara is very careful. He has given five particular forms—the Goddess Durga, Lord Visnu, Lord Siva, the sun. Therefore there are sections—the sun worshipers, the fire worshipers. Originally, (indistinct). That is Vedic culture. Their Vedic culture means many demigods. But the original God is accepted, Visnu. And original to Visnu is Krsna. isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1] Krsna also says, mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. “There is no superior form or authority than Me.” That is confirmed by Lord Brahma, isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. Krsna is controller. There are different grades of controller but the supreme controller is Krsna. Krsna says mam ekam, “Unto Me, no one else.” Now our Krsna consciousness movement is trying to convince people to give Him our attention, therefore we have published so many books only about Krsna. On every page you’ll find Krsna, Krsna, Krsna. Either in Krsna Book or in Caitanya-caritamrta, or in the Bhagavatam or in Nectar of Devotion, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. The word(?) is Krsna, that is simply explained in the (indistinct). Guest: What is the word actually? “Kr” is the root for making, isn’t it? Prabhupada: Krsna? Guest: Yes, krs. Prabhupada: Yes, krs means karsati, attraction. [break] Devotee: (indistinct) Prabhupada: Hm? Devotee: (indistinct) Prabhupada: About? Devotee: (indistinct) Prabhupada: Yes. India, formerly your country was part of India and you belonged to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Aryan? So Aryan culture was practically all over the world. Aryan culture. Guest: Krs then as attractiveness and as cultivator. In Greek my name is also cultivator. Prabhupada: Huh? Guest: In Greek, the origin of my name is cultivator. (indistinct) Prabhupada: And there is a Greek word for Krsna. Guest: Yes. Prabhupada: There is a word in Greek. He is called Kristo. Krsna is sometimes pronounced by ordinary man as Kristo and that Kristo word means love. That is the other Greek word and from that Kristo, the word Christ has come. Guest: (indistinct) Yes. Prabhupada: So there is some connection with Krsna (indistinct). What is that? Guest: There are so many parallels between Krsna and Christ. Prabhupada: So many. Guest: Born in a cave. Yes. Devotee: Mamaivamso jiva-loke jiva-bhutah sanatanah, manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7]. “The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.” Prabhupada: That is the position of the conditioned souls that they are struggling for existence. Instead of finding out how to come to the original consciousness and that is struggle. Krsna means love. So everyone is struggling hard how to reach the platform of love. So many institutions—philanthropic, international, United Nations. The only attempt, how to love each other. But they’ll struggle, they’ll not attain the platform, simply struggle. There have been so many attempts, even the favorite example, the United Nations. How much they are doing and people have got the idea of philanthropism, countryism, communism, communityism, this ism, that ism. The only thing is they are trying to come to the platform of love. Guest: I see. Prabhupada: But they are manufacturing their own way. But Krsna showed, “Not in this way, simply make Me center and the whole thing (indistinct).” But that they’ll not do. They’ll do in their own way, concocting some idea. And your idea will clash with me, my idea will clash with you, the same struggle continues. The communists will not agree with the others, the capitalists. The capitalist will not agree. But they are struggling to come to that, the platform of love. Guest: Yes, it’s the inter-attractiveness even on a planetary scale that holds the world. Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu gives very perfect formula—that you sit together, chant Hare Krsna and everything (indistinct). That also (indistinct). There is no loss, let us make an experiment. Guest: (laughs) Prabhupada: What is the loss if we sit together and chant Hare Krsna? And if there is some gain (indistinct) If you propose this in the United Nations do you think (indistinct) Guest: Like we did together in Delhi. Prabhupada: Yes. You have seen it? They are very much eager. Guest: So many people. Prabhupada: They are very much eager. (indistinct) Guest: Eager? Prabhupada: And the other, the communist and the other (indistinct). I have seen many big, big officers they are chanting returning from the office and they are chanting and dancing. (indistinct) 20,000, 30,000. (indistinct) Now the government did not give us again that place in Delhi. Guest: Hm. Prabhupada: Last time when we came, there they gave. Devotee: LIC Grounds(?)? Prabhupada: Huh? Devotee: LIC Grounds(?)? Prabhupada: No, no. They gave us that (indistinct) Park. Guest: Yes, I know. Prabhupada: That is in the jungle, nobody could reach, and they gave us that place. Guest: (laughs) Prabhupada: And still there were no less than (indistinct). Guest: (laughs) Prabhupada: It was not easily accessible, the motorcar cannot go. You have to leave your car three miles away (indistinct) Guest: I know the place. Prabhupada: Yes. He knows that. Guest: It is a difficult thing to get to. Prabhupada: Yes, and they gave us that park and at the last moment they rejected. First of all they gave then at the last moment the municipality thought that this land cannot be given to any religion. And offered that (indistinct). So we had no other alternative. (indistinct) And the government indirectly giving us so much hindrance. They do not like it. One of the important members (indistinct), he frankly said that we do not want that your movement will increase very fast in India. Because they know it, (indistinct), that India is naturally inclined to Krsna. And if the selected people of the world combine together and push this movement in India, the whole program of the modern leaders (indistinct) That’s a fact. And that was my (indistinct) I wanted to start this movement from India but nobody cooperated, so then I decided to come to America and my plan was successful. Guest: What was your connection with McGill? I heard… Prabhupada: That was(?)… Guest: You published first with McGill? Prabhupada: No. (indistinct) Devotee: Srila Bhaktivinoda probably(?). Prabhupada: Huh? Devotee: Srila Bhaktivinoda. Guest: I see. Prabhupada: He sent his first book. Guest: Yes. Prabhupada: In 1896. Bhaktivinoda Thakura was the first origin of this movement. But he simply thought of it and he was expecting that some other persons will take up the work. So somebody says…. [break] (indistinct) Devotee: Teachings of Lord Caitanya, yes. Guest: Well, I’m very happy to have this chance to be with you. How long will you be here? Prabhupada: A few days. Guest: That’s all? And then? Prabhupada: I am going to India. (indistinct) Lord Caitanya’s birth anniversary and open our Vrndavana temple. In Bombay we have got very nice land purchased and the government will not give us sanction for the temple. Guest: Hm! Prabhupada: (barely audible) (indistinct) through another friend (indistinct). The governor was (indistinct). He’s my friend, I requested him, “You request the government to give us sanction.” So he is very ardently pressing, explaining the whole thing about my position that he is member of this movement and still (indistinct). He has said no, but (indistinct) Guest: You know when I had Mr. Trudeau, our prime minister, visit India in ’71, first place I took him was at Vrndavana. Prabhupada: Who? Guest: Our prime minister… Prabhupada: Oh. Guest: …of Canada… Prabhupada: Oh. Guest: …Mr. Trudeau. Prabhupada: Oh. Guest: So, we went first place, Vrndavana… Prabhupada: Vrndavana. Guest: …temple. Prabhupada: In Vrndavana still there is little glimpse of spiritual idea, but the government is trying to spoil this place also, starting oil refinery. Guest: In Vrndavana? And that in the name of progress. (laughs) Prabhupada: They have already opened some factories. One factory is near (indistinct) Devotee: Cannery. Prabhupada: Huh? Devotee: Cannery. Prabhupada: Cannery? Anyway, when they boil this onion, up to ten miles the good smell is (indistinct). (laughter) And the whole atmosphere is (indistinct) Similarly, they are trying to refine oil and the refuse will be thrown in the Yamuna and the River Yamuna will be spoiled, nobody will go there. (indistinct) They think that these so-called spiritual fanaticism of India is the cause of India’s material deficiencies. Guest: I know. Prabhupada: This must be killed. (indistinct) Guest: (indistinct) Even here there are people who think that. Prabhupada: Oh, they are thinking like that? (indistinct) Guest: One of the big people here, I said to him after I argued like this for hours, I said, “You are Western and I am Eastern, not the other way around.” Thank you very much. Prabhupada: Give him the whole plate. (laughter) Guest: (indistinct) Prabhupada: (indistinct) So I am very glad to see you. Devotee: (indistinct) Guest: Yes, and she was hoping to come later, but if you are only going to be here two days, I don’t know whether she will… Devotee: We’ll be leaving the 15th, evening of the 15th, late the 15th. Guest: Yes, and this is the 13th. I’ll take this to her. Thank you very much. Prabhupada: Thank you very much for your coming here. Guest: Hare Krsna. Devotee: Hare Krsna. Prabhupada: Jaya. (indistinct) was very successful. Very, very successful, all big, big men came. They are going to have again for two days. Devotee: In Delhi. Devotee: Yes. Devotee: That’ll be nice. Srila Prabhupada, tonight we’ve got about 70 Indians coming, big group of Indians. So, ah, would you like to take some rest before they come? Devotee: They will be coming (indistinct). Devotee: But I think that they won’t expect to see you until about seven o’clock or so. Devotee: In the temple room. Devotee: They’ll probably…. They’ll wait for you in the temple room to come at about seven o’clock. Prabhupada: (indistinct) Devotee: The government is against our movement but actually this movement is the only thing, even materially, that can help them. Prabhupada: (indistinct) (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Germany, June 20, 1974