Morning Walk Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
July 9, 1974, Los Angeles

Prabhupada: Now if they say that the killing means murdering, that means the people amongst whom Christ was preaching, they were accustomed to kill men. So what class of men they were? What was the society? A society of murderers. So what they will understand about religion, a murderer? (pause) So go further or return?

Jayatirtha: We should probably turn around now, Srila Prabhupada. (pause) If you’re preaching honesty to a thief, you have to be careful that he’s not stealing your watch in the meantime.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayatirtha: If you’re preaching honesty to a thief, he may steal your watch. So Jesus was trying to teach religion to murderers, so they murdered him.

Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. Murkhayopadeso hi prakopaya na santaye. (aside:) Don’t come very near. If you advise rascals, they’ll be angry. No good result. Murkhayopadeso hi prakopaya na santaye, payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. So we have to become very strong preacher. Then this movement will stay. If you simply take the temple worship, it will not stay very long. Just like…

Hrdayananda: Especially the leaders must preach.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hrdayananda: Especially the leaders must preach.

Prabhupada: And leaders means… If the leaders are good, then it will continue.

Bali Mardana: If they are not preaching, they are not leaders. They are bogus. (pause)

Prabhupada: Leaders means they should behave in such a way so that by following them, others will be benefitted. That is leader.

Jayatirtha: That’s a perfect definition, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayatirtha: That’s a perfect definition. That should be in the dictionary, like that.

Prabhupada: Yes. What is that for definition?

Jayatirtha: The… A leader means one that if someone follows him, he’s benefitted.

Prabhupada: That is leader.

Guru-krpa: Look out.

Jayatirtha: Look out. Oh, the ocean is coming.

Prabhupada: Our Juhu Beach is better than… Best in the world. You have not seen?

Jayatirtha: I was there. Yes, Srila Prabhupada. It’s very beautiful.

Gurukrpa: What do you think of Jagannatha Puri Beach?

Prabhupada: No, not so nice.

Guru-krpa: Not so nice?

Prabhupada: Juhu Beach is very nice. You can go up to one mile, so much water.

Krsna-kanti: Up to the knee.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Krsna-kanti: Just up to the knee?

Prabhupada: Yes. And the waves are not so ferocious. It is coming. And the whole thing is clean, whole beach. Yes. And it is ten miles long. Therefore so many foreigners’ hotels are there. (japa) (pause) When I was last here, Los Angeles, which chapter I was reading? Who knows? Which chapter of Bhagavata I was reading?

Guru-krpa: Fifth?

Sudama: The last time he was here?

Jayatirtha: In Los Angeles you were reading in the Third Volume of the First Canto. I believe it was about…

Hrdayananda: About Arjuna, how Arjuna left the earth, how the Pandavas retired.

Jayatirtha: Ah, Pandavas Retire, yes.

Prabhupada: So from there we shall begin again. (japa) (long pause) If the people refuse to take Krsna consciousness, they’ll never be happy. This is a fact. (pause) But if you present properly, they will take. That is a fact. The other day in San Francisco, there were about twelve to fifteen thousand men. They were hearing so patiently. They also applauded. And many came to my car, “Thank you, Prabhupada. Thank you, Prabhupada. Thank you, Prabhupada.” Said like that.

Bali Mardana: I’ve never seen so many young Americans sit for, listen to the lecture so attentively.

Prabhupada: And religious, most dry subject. Not cinema.

Bali Mardana: The newspaper said that it was the most favorite festival of all San Francisco, of all the festivals.

Prabhupada: So they have mentioned, “American Hindus.” (chuckles) (pause) It is a dead blow to the material civilization: “No drinking and no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex.” Their whole civilization is finished. Because they stand on these things, four pillars.

Jayatirtha: Yes.

Prabhupada: They have no other…

Krsna-kanti: Therefore we must present a better civilization.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Krsna-kanti: We must present a better civilization.

Prabhupada: Yes. Not better or best. The civilization. Everything is all false, cheating. Everything, everything is cheating. Without this Krsna consciousness, all other consciousness, they’re simply cheating. That is called maya, illusion. If you remain in any other consciousness except Krsna consciousness, that means you are in illusion. You are misguided. That is explained in the second verse of the First Canto. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo ’tra paramo nirmatsaranam satam vastava vastu vedyam atra: [SB 1.1.2] All kinds of cheating religious system is kicked out.” That is the second verse. Projjhita, completely cleansed of all cheating type of religion. This, this has been translated into Bengali by these words,

prthivite yaha kichu dharma name cale bhagavata kahe taha paripurna chale

Whatever is going on throughout the whole world in the name of religion, Bhagavata, according to Bhagavata, they’re all cheating. They’re all cheating. Bhagavata kahe taha paripurna chale. Chale means cheating.

Jayatirtha: What exactly is the definition of a cheat?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayatirtha: What is the definition of a cheat?

Prabhupada: Cheat means that I am exploiting you. I am saying that I am creating you a religious, but you are most sinful. I am creating a most sinful. That is cheating.

Guru-krpa: Giving something under false pretensions.

Prabhupada: That’s all. You are taking something else while thinking something else. That is cheating. Actually, we see the so-called religious system… Religion means to become lover of God. But who is lover of God? Do not know what is God, and what to speak of love Him. They do not know, have no clear conception of God even.

Jayatirtha: They are lovers of dog.

Prabhupada: And actually they are lovers of dog. And still, he’s professing “I am religious.” This is not cheating.

Hrdayananda: Yes, it’s cheating. Imposter.

Prabhupada: Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. Unless one becomes a devotee of God, there is no question of religion. It is all cheating. By opening hospital, schools,… There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years, the hospitals and schools are being opened, philanthropy. What is the result?

Bali Mardana: Atom bombs.

Prabhupada: Atom bomb. Result is atom bomb.

Hrdayananda: You’re the only one, Prabhupada, who dares to criticize hospitals and schools. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Yes, so many people came to request me… Even Dr. Ghosh. Eh? You know.

Satsvarupa: He wanted you to open a medical dispensary.

Prabhupada: “No, no, we are not going to waste our time in that way.” I frankly told him. We have no extra time to waste like that. What he thinks very big project, we say it is waste of time. (laughter)

Jayatirtha: Yes.

Hrdayananda: Jaya. It is a completely revolutionary idea.

Prabhupada: Yes. I cannot allow anyone he’s waste his valuable time of human life.

Guru-krpa: You said before that the more hospitals they open that means the more people have to become sick.

Prabhupada: That, more… Yes.

Guru-krpa: To get in the hospital.

Prabhupada: They are very much proud, “We have opened fifty hospitals.” That means fifty thousand people have become sick. “We have increased so many beds.” That means so many people have more increased their disease. But they’re proud of doing this. Our poor-feeding and their poor-feeding is different. We give prasadam—by eating he’ll become Krsnaized. He’ll become a devotee. And ordinary eating means he will eat and go to hell. Hare Krsna (japa) Krsnotkirtana-gana-nartana-parau…

Krsna-kanti: Jaya Prabhupada.

Jayatirtha: Jayate. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. (end)