Morning Walk Conversation Prabhupada: Nobody knows. Jayapataka: The volume is a million times more than the earth. Don’t know the circumference. They say the sun is a million times bigger than the earth, volume. Prabhupada: [break] Cleansing. Tamala Krsna: Cleaning, pujaris, cooking. Saurabha: Cleaning is very big job to maintain, especially with exhibitions that… Tamala Krsna: Maintenance. Jayapataka: We can get a lot of people, village people, to come and live without pay and do the cleaning, but they won’t be productive. I mean, they’ll have to be supported by the temple. They’ll just be cleaning all day. Prabhupada: Supporting is no problem. To everyone we can give place and food. There is no problem. Tamala Krsna: If there is an escalator in the building, simply the proceeds from people going on that escalator, Prabhupada… Prabhupada: Yes, there will be income. Tamala Krsna: …will be a huge income. I’m certain thousands of people will come daily just to ride that escalator. (laughter) Because even now a few hundred or more, five hundred to a thousand people come every day just for darsana. So these will all pay a rupee. And if this building is there, that will be ten times the number of people. It’ll be a gigantic income. Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (Bengali) [break] …Madhava Maharaja’s sisya? No. Bhavananda: Madhava Maharaja? Jayapataka: Gosvami. He used to be in charge of the agriculture. Prabhupada: Oh. Tamala Krsna: [break] …all of the buildings all the way around, it will look very nice. Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: With those small little buildings all around it will look very nice. Jayapataka: What small little buildings? Tamala Krsna: We’re planning to build them, one-story buildings. Jayapataka: [break] …we should have a mosaic floor or a colored cement floor? What standard that should be? Prabhupada: Mosaic. Trivikrama: Good standard. Prabhupada: [break] You can get mosaic tiles. Jayapataka: It is no cheaper. We make the mosaic ourselves. We manufacture here. Prabhupada: So digging must begin today? The men are there for digging? So Saurabha, you give one site plan immediately. Yes. And order bricks, that’s all. Cement and sand we have got. [break] …any living entity having a material body, he has got soul. Tatha dehantara-praptih. Now preach this movement. [break] Begin also building there, like this. Tamala Krsna: That piece of land right here? Prabhupada: Huh. Tamala Krsna: When do you want to begin it? Prabhupada: Immediately. Tamala Krsna: What’s this? Prabhupada: [break] Nrsimhadeva wanted to give him benediction, blessings, “Whatever you like.” He refused that. He said that “I am not a mercantile devotee that I’ll get some benefit from You, but first benediction I want that let me engage in the service of Your servant, Narada Muni.” Tava bhrtya-sevam. “Because my spiritual master gave me blessing, therefore I see You. So my first business is to serve him.” This is Vaisnava conclusion. So he refused direct service but he wanted blessing that he may be engaged in the service of his spiritual master. This is Vaisnava conclusion. Tamala Krsna: He was indebted to his guru. Prabhupada: Yes. Certainly he must be. Certainly he must be. Because by the mercy, guru takes the compassion that “These are suffering in this material world,” he goes door to door and tries to save him. And if one forgets guru and jumps over to serve Krsna, he is not a devotee. Tamala Krsna: Guru-druha. Prabhupada: He is not a devotee. Mad-bhaktya… There is a verse. Krsna says that “Worship of My devotee is greater worship than to Me.” Sastriji: Mad bhaktya yanti mam.(?) Prabhupada: And Lord Siva, he advises Parvati when she was questioning…. Oh, there is no stair from inside? You have to go like this? Bhavananda: No, ladder, there is outside stair that has to be fixed yet. It is just now finished in two stories. Prabhupada: Outside? Bhavananda: Outside stairs. Prabhupada: How? Bhavananda: Metal stairs. Prabhupada: Where to do it within? Bhavananda: No. Outside will be fixed. Prabhupada: How you can? Outside how it can be fixed? Tamala Krsna: Where is it going to go from? Bhavananda: There are ladders up to these rooms and then stairs on an angle up to those rooms. Tamala Krsna: Ladder where? Where is there a ladder going to be? Bhavananda: Going up this way. I’m not exactly sure how the engineering works. Jayapataka designed it. Prabhupada: It has been a mistake. The staircase should have been from this, within this…. Why it has not done, that? What is this nonsense, a ladder? [break] …going to…. Yes. Indian man: One person, he is coming today. Prabhupada: One person? Indian man: From Krishnanagar he came yesterday and…. Prabhupada: No, no, his rate is higher. Why should you engage him? Indian man: So the other is coming on Monday or Tuesday. Bhavananda: From Calcutta. Indian man: He is bringing a same person. Prabhupada: No, no, that’s all right. But why should we pay him more, the Krishnanagar. He wants that one… Bhavananda: Three. Prabhupada: One rupee, eight annas, three. Why should I pay? Then? If he…, you pay him three rupees, then they will also charge more. Indian man: Actually he told me…. He said, “Our rates are very higher in Krishnanagar. Don’t tell anybody that we are charging three rupees. Bhavananda: But we’re not going to hire him. (laughter) Indian man: No, we are not going to hire. Prabhupada: No, no, no. We cannot pay. Indian man: It’s almost double. Prabhupada: Everyone is trying to exploit you. They freely say, the rickshawalla, that they will charge five hundred rupees per bigha to others and they will charge four thousand rupees to you. This is going on. Don’t allow them to paint unless the rate is settled. Bhavananda: We had one day guard on our front gate last week. He worked for three days. His monthly salary was forty rupees plus his meals. So after he was here for three days the rickshawallas, they said, “Why you are working for them for so little money? They are so wealthy.” And he left. Prabhupada: Who is supervising this department? Bhavananda: Tapomaya. Prabhupada: Where is Tapomaya? (Bengali) Tamala Krsna: This is all our, for our sugarcane? Tapomaya: Another two…. [break] Prabhupada: So we shall pay reasonable price for all the lands. Tamala Krsna: I don’t think the price will be more than eight hundred rupees. Prabhupada: Yes. They will take statistics for ten years and make an average. That is the way. (Bengali) [break] …scheme requires very huge land. So if we purchase in that way they will go on charging more and more. Indian man: Indira Gandhi…. They have now made a new one formula called “Twenty-point formula.” And in that, one part is that any society, samstha (indistinct), or individual, he can keep a land, twelve acres. Prabhupada: Society also? Indian man: Anyone. But gives two crops, and which give up one crop, they can keep thirty acres. And more than that, the government will take every, and they will distribute to all the farmers. Prabhupada: Then? Indian man: They are doing in Haryana and Punjab. They have taken all the land. And there are many big, big gurguras. They have a land hundred acres, fifty acres, something like that. So they have given them. Prabhupada: So without government award it will be risky. They can take away. Indian man: Ten bighas she extracts. Prabhupada: But who is working as farmer? Who is working as farmer? The government is eager to give them land, but who is working? Nobody is working. They are going to the factory. Even whatever land is still available, they are not being worked out. Indian man: Well, in the villages there are many poor peoples who are landless, so they are cultivating the land. Prabhupada: No, no. Some of them are cultivating. Others are going to the city to be… Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their land they have to go. They will say, “How we can live with the small land,” so they will move. Prabhupada: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that “You work in our land and take some salary,” why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Krsna consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating—useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice…. This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. “You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join.” That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless…. “Proprietorship turns sand into gold.” Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore ksatriyas, they were given land: “You take land as much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join.” Tamala Krsna: In Europe that was the system also. Prabhupada: Everywhere that was the system. That is called…. What is called? Harikesa: Feudalism? Prabhupada: Feudalism, yes. What is this nonsense, maintaining so many idle men without any profit? Very, very bad system. And nowadays especially, when there is atomic energy, what is the value of the soldiers? Harikesa: We need the soldiers to start. Prabhupada: Huh? Harikesa: The soldiers, they start the war. One stands on one side, the other stands on the other side, and there’s one shot, one shot, ten shots, ten shots, then mortars, then tanks, then atom bombs. Prabhupada: No, why this is? If you have improved scientifically, let two, three scientists keep flying and the handy atom bomb. As soon as war starts, “plum,” finished. Harikesa: They have that also. Prabhupada: Then…. Why also? That should be the only. It is waste of time. What kind of scientists they are? If you have actually improved in science for killing others by atom bomb, so keep one atom bomb very carefully. Fly in the sky. And as soon as the war— world, “plum.” Finished. Harikesa: Well, then the other will just send some boats over, and all the men will get out while they’re flying in the sky, and they’ll just take over the country by manual soldiers. Prabhupada: No. As soon as atom bomb is…, everything is finished. There will be no opportunity. That is their thinking, “Who will drop the atom bomb first, he will be winner.” That’s all. In Russia they are adopting this means. They are releasing all the soldiers for other work. What is the use of keeping so many men idle without any work and maintain them, high salary, occupy big, big cantonment camps? Harikesa: In America the army builds roads and bridges and things. Prabhupada: That’s utilization. Why they should be paid for nothing? Indian man: The small farmers who has a few acres of land, they are selling to a party, and they are getting a money. They knew that “After two or three years we will pose our set-up to the government that ‘We are landless,’ and the government will give us some money.” Prabhupada: Yes. Indian man: “We will get the money now and we will also get the land.” Prabhupada: Just see. Tamala Krsna: Same way, these people in Madras, the poor people living on the street, so the government gives them the house. Then they take the house and rent it and live… Prabhupada: In Bombay also they do that. Indian man: Still gutter, and charge. When we were looking at land in Kuruksetra so then I found it. The people there are ready to sell it immediately to get the money. Then they will pose to the government that “We are landless,” so the government will give them land again. Prabhupada: And then the land which he purchased now, that will take away. Tamala Krsna: And given back to them. Prabhupada: Yes. Simply cheating. That’s all. What is called? Bhrama-pramada-vipralipsa. Everyone is trying to cheat others, and that is the criterion of intelligence, “How I can cheat you, how you can cheat me.” This is going on. That is the nature of the conditioned souls. [break] …workers are coming today? Indian man: He said he will bring twenty, thirty persons today. Prabhupada: Hm. So they will follow the instruction. They have made that plan? Bhavananda: Yes. Indian man: He said that if he will get the supply immediately, then he can finish, even before that. Prabhupada: So give him supply? Where is the… Indian man: No, we will get that. Everything will be all right. Prabhupada: Huh? Bhavananda: He may say. Prabhupada: No, no. Give supply and see they are working. That’s all. No. I don’t think it is impossible. It can be done. Who use? Bhavananda: There are some people. They just leave it here. Prabhupada: They take gobar from here? Bhavananda: No. Prabhupada: Then why they are working here? Bhavananda: They collect along the road. Prabhupada: [break] …all planner has stolen. And we have no such arrangement. Simply we are purchasing land; we do not know how to utilize it. [break] Whenever I come I see new bhalti, new lota, and the old is stolen. That every time I come I see, a new set. Here also. Who is looking after? Everything is open, no control. Tamala Krsna: This morning Jayapataka Maharaja was talking to me. On the boat program they’re having? They want to show that Bengali movie, “Hare Krsna People.” They have no projector, so he wanted to know whether the money that I want to give him can be used for purchasing a projector rather than the land purchase. Prabhupada: Yes, projector is necessary. Tamala Krsna: Projector would be big preaching. Our money comes from, for preaching program. There is already a fund for land purchase, whereas there is no such fund for something like this. Prabhupada: So it can be purchased… Tamala Krsna: Cost, they say…. It costs today…. A 16 millimeter projector with sound is about ten thousand rupees, new. I have a projector in America but I don’t know…. I’m going to bring it, anyway, but it’s not at all new. I’m not even sure… Prabhupada: So why new? Old is no useful? Tamala Krsna: Frankly I don’t know if the projector…. This projector was donated by someone and we have no purpose for it. That’s why I don’t know about it’s condition. I keep it in the bus. Prabhupada: So let who is coming, let him bring it. Tamala Krsna: Yes. They’ll be coming in about a month from now. I’m not at all sure of the condition of it. In America things like that are…. A very old one, it’s probably about fifteen years old. One boy joined us and donated it. We couldn’t even sell it. In America things like that, if they’re used, once they are used, sufficiently used, no one will purchase. Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: Ten dollars you can sell it like that for, twenty dollars. Every month or two we have to hold a garage sale because so many…. When the boys join I get them to donate everything they have. I send one man with them to their apartment. Usually they are sharing their apartment or house with some others, friends, and suddenly the Hare Krsna devotees come in and take everything out of the house, furniture… Prabhupada: They feel glad. Tamala Krsna: Yes. Sometimes…. One time I was in Boulder, Colorado. So I meet this boy on the campus and in five minutes I convinced him to… Prabhupada: I have seen in New York. Many tenants, they leave their whole possession and go away. I have seen it. And for the landlord it becomes a problem, how to cleanse this. I have seen it. All table, chairs, bedding, scattered in this way, and they went away. I have seen it. Tamala Krsna: In Colorado I convinced this one boy to join us. He was a musician, the leader of a band. So I only talked to him for a few minutes but he became convinced very quickly. So I asked him, “You’re a musician. You have some instruments?” because these instruments are very valuable. He said, “Yes, I have some.” I said, “Well, you should give them to Krsna because everything that you give, then you’ll get benefit. Even if sinfully you got these things previously, now everything will be turned to a positive, good use.” He said, “Well, the thing is, my band, we’re doing a program in the mountains, and they may be leaving with all the instruments.” So I said, “Let’s go.” So I took him in the bus, and I took the bus to his house, and there was the people in his band, and they were about to come out of the house. They were already packed up. So I pulled the bus in front of the driveway and blocked them. Then I told him, “You bring all your members of your band into the bus.” So then I preached to them. It turned out he owned all the equipment of the band, the microphones, everything. So they became very angry when they heard that he was going to become a Hare Krsna. They were very, very angry, but somehow I made them agree, and they took all this equipment out. It was worth many thousands of dollars. They had to…. Their whole band was broken apart. So many times this has happened with these bands, that one member joins us and then they give all the instruments, microphone systems, everything. So when this happens, then we put everything in a garage and we hold a sale and sell everything. Usually they donate television sets… Sudama: I had a similar experience, Srila Prabhupada, in Kansas with one college student who was a senior in commercial art. He had one big, large apartment and about five roommates, and he had all your pictures and pictures of Krsna all on his wall, and Dhrstadyumna prabhu and I went and preached to him. And I began taking all the pictures down off his wall and said, “You are coming with us because you are a devotee of Krsna.” And he agreed, so we began moving everything, and he owned everything in the house, and all his friends protested at the door, “No, no. You cannot go. You cannot take all of your hi-fi equipment and music…” Tamala Krsna: They don’t love the friend; they love all of his things. Sudama: So we took all of his things in big trucks. We had to take furniture and everything. And he sold over one period of a week. And then all his friends began coming to the bus for evening aratika and prasada, and two of his friends, they also became influenced and started chanting Hare Krsna because they were left with nothing after he went away. Tamala Krsna: One boy who joined us in Boston… Prabhupada: [break] Chewing the chewed. This is going on. Material world means chewing the chewed. Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, I think this narrow path is smoother. Prabhupada: Better. Tamala Krsna: [break] …go ahead and get the projector do you think, new projector? Prabhupada: Yes. [break] …government, Mr. Chaudhuri can do. Tamala Krsna: Yes. As soon as you stop the land purchasing anyway can do. Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: In the summer time the colleges are…. (kirtana) (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
January 19, 1976, Mayapur