Morning Walk Conversation Prabhupada: …What they’ll encourage? To become thief? Devotee (1): It looks like that. Prabhupada: A secular state? Hrdayananda: To encourage nationalism, serving the government, it’s economic development… Prabhupada: That’s all right. The people become thieves and rogues, then how the economic development will be possible? Gopala Krsna: This they can see. There’s been no progress since they became… Prabhupada: …they should be, apart from religion, they should be educated to become truthful, to become merciful, to…, like these ordinary things. They should be educated. Gopala Krsna: Well, they’re not being taught. Prabhupada: So where is the…? What is the meaning of secular? Does it mean… Secularism means roguism? [break] Hrdayananda: He has no shame. He again wants to be in. Gopala Krsna: I don’t think he’d be interested. Hrdayananda: No. It is there. (?) They have absolutely no shame. They will again come back. Devotee (1): Actually, they are all doing it; he just got caught. So he doesn’t feel so bad. It’s like a game. Prabhupada: So how, if the state has condemned him as dishonest man, how he’s being appointed as ambassador? Gopala Krsna: He’s not being appointed so far. Hrdayananda: But he is making… He’s trying to… He’s trying to position himself to try to get that… He’s aspiring. Like Dhrtarastra. Gopala Krsna: He’s a rascal. Hrdayananda: [break] … going to jail, after he was caught, he made a trick that he… There were reports that “Now the president, he has been kicked out. He is so much depressed, he is going insane. The only way he can be saved is you must pardon him.” So the new president, he pardoned him to… Devotee (1): There was also some talk that the arrangement was made before. Prabhupada: Hm? Devotee (1): In the newspapers, I also read that there was some talk before. Like they’re actually friends. So they just feel, “Well, he got caught. We’ll give him another try.” Hrdayananda: That “If you’ll go away and let me be the president, then I’ll get you out of jail.” Devotee (1): “We’ll make some arrangement.” Hrdayananda: “I’ll give you pardon.” Devotee (1): They don’t con… [Break] Prabhupada: …an agreement that “Ford, if you want to become president immediately, you accept this, that you’ll excuse me. Then I resign. You become immediately. Otherwise, I’ll continue. Let me see. So you’ll be delayed.” So he thought, “I am going to be immediately president. All right, agree. That’s all.” Devotee (1): He made him his vice-president. Prabhupada: Hm? Hrdayananda: No, no. That was before. Prabhupada: Vice-president? Gopala Krsna: That was another… Hrdayananda: Nixon had made Ford vice-president. Prabhupada: He was vice-president. Ford? Hrdayananda: Yes. Prabhupada: What is his contribution to the state after becoming President? Hrdayananda: Ford? Prabhupada: No, Ford, no, I mean Nixon. When he was being elected, I was there in America. He was advertising, “America needs Nixon.” You have seen that? Dayananda: Yes. Prabhupada: You were driving me. I saw that time. Dayananda: Yes. Prabhupada: At that time, we had no place. We were holding our classes on the garage and somewhere. Before coming to La Cienega… Dayananda: Hm, yes. Prabhupada: …I was running on that road where there is tram-line. What is that road? Hrdayananda: Which road? Dayananda: Melrose, I think? Prabhupada: Eh? Yes. Hrdayananda: That was 1968. Prabhupada: 1969… I do not know. Dayananda: ’69 Prabhupada: ’69, yes. Hrdayananda: The election was ’68. Gopala Krsna: That time he lost to Johnson, I think. Hrdayananda: No. Prabhupada: No, no, he was being elected. So he was… The signboard was “America needs Nixon.” Hari-sauri: I think, when he was thrown out of office, he said “Well, I may have had so many faults, but at least I increased our good relations with other countries.” He was always… He was trying to convince everybody that he may not have been very good at domestic affairs, but at foreign affairs he was expert, so then that made his administration not so bad. Hrdayananda: One thing… The one thing that caused his downfall, that when they heard the tapes… He had recorded all of his conversations, private conversations with his ministers. So it turned out that it was horrible language. Practically every other word was dirty word. Prabhupada: That dirty word used by him? Hrdayananda: Practically every other word. Dayananda: Filthy language. Hrdayananda: They discovered… So this is what also hurt him because they discovered some tape of private conversations, and it was very, very obscene. Practically every other word was bad word. Prabhupada: He was a lawyer. He’s a lawyer? Hrdayananda: Yes. Dayananda: In America now, so many so-called cultured men, lawyers and doctors and so many cultured men, their language is very horrible, their… Prabhupada: Vulgar. Dayananda: Their whole attitude is vulgar also, not just language but whole… Yeah. And like even in Europe before, a gentleman was a gentleman. They were… I think. And even in America before, they had some good qualities. But now the so-called gentlemen or educated men, they’re very vulgar. Hrdayananda: Vicious. Dayananda: Becoming more and more gross. Prabhupada: Varna-sankara. Dayananda: Yes. Like that. Prabhupada: Therefore their sons are hippies. Dayananda: Yes. Prabhupada: The father is varna-sankara, the son is also. Hari-sauri: The more vulgar you are, the more glorified you become, especially like all these film stars and public figures. The more of a drunkard they are, then the more they’re publicized in the news. Prabhupada: Just like John Lennon. He is a public man. Dayananda: Yes. Prabhupada: Just see. What he is? He’s standing naked and taking photograph. His wife and he, standing naked. I have seen. And that picture is there in his sitting room, fireplace. That is the picture. (laughs) I went to see him. I was his guest. So one day I was… I saw there that big picture on the fireplace. And here is a public… Newspapermen go to him to take his opinion. “What is your opinion?” Just see. What is his value? Nobody… He is public leader because he has got some money. Money is the criterion. Therefore people are accumulating money some way or other. He knows that “If I got money, then I’ll have all influence over the society.” Hari-sauri: A rich man no matter what his morals or character… Prabhupada: No, nobody cares. Hari-sauri: …he becomes very attractive. Prabhupada: Anyone who is not Krsna conscious, he has no good quality. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. These are the… From the Vedic angle of vision, the Western people are the most uncivilized. Only money is covering them. When they introduced that mini-skirt for the girl, how much abominable it was considered in India. But they very publicly introduced. Hari-sauri: Now even in India, slowly… Prabhupada: Yes. They’ll imitate. Devotee (1): When the prime minister of Canada, when he was, when he first began running, he was a young bachelor, very good looking, long hair. And he sent around girls in mini-skirts, kissing men on the cheeks, giving them a little candy for his campaign, and he, he almost got all the votes, became the prime minister. Dayananda: We were talking yesterday how nice this story of Prahlada Maharaja is, because no matter how great a demon becomes, still, he cannot vanquish the devotees, even if the devotee is a very insignificant little boy, only five years old. These demons seem so… Hari-sauri: Powerful. Dayananda: …horrible. The society is so degraded. [break] Hari-sauri: 6:20. Prabhupada: Eh? The idea of reincarnation. That is horrible for them. Hari-sauri: If they understood that they would have to pay later for what they’re doing now, they wouldn’t be able to do it. Prabhupada: Oh. So, what is the report? Jayapataka: Er… The printing? Prabhupada: Eh? Our. (?) Fifty thousand. Gopala Krsna: We’re doing that, printing fifty… Prabhupada: Yes. Jayapataka: That will be ready after the festival? [break] …an elephant? Prabhupada: Eh? Jayapataka: Elephant? Prabhupada: No elephant. Why elephant? Elephant is royal. We are not royal. We are beggars, sannyasi, beggars. Hrdayananda: These buses arriving in the village will be very… People will never forget it. Hari-sauri: That procession we had in the villages near Ahmedabad, in the villages there, that must have been a once in a lifetime experience for most of them. Prabhupada: We can go there… And now, wherever we shall go, they will be received like that. Jayapataka: They especially mentioned… Prabhupada: The Indian people are meant for that purpose. They are from the birth, janma… Other, they are janmana sudra, but Indians, they are janmana devotees. Jayapataka: I meant to mention that he commented that when they were coming from Andhra, when they, as they’re getting closer to Bengal, in Orissa, and then even more so in Bengal, the, both in Ori… so many kirtana was there. The people were meeting them with kirtana and everyone was doing kirtana. But in Andhra and other places, not so much kirtana is there. Prabhupada: No. Jayapataka: They say they get much better reception in Orissa and Bengal. Prabhupada: Yes. Because… Jayapataka: And already they picked up one devotee, I think. Devotees come also quicker. Hrdayananda: Lord Caitanya… Jayapataka: I think if we concentrated first in Bengal and Orissa, we get some, enough devotees, and then they could help us in the other villages elsewhere. Prabhupada: Yes. Jayapataka: All over India. Like Madana already got three devotees when I was there in one week. By now he may also have more. Bengalis like kirtana very much. [break] …devotees are Bengalis. Prabhupada: …ago Bengali culture was very much adored all over India. Even one big politician, Gandhi’s guru, Goke, Gokule, he remarked, “What Bengal thinks today, other provinces will think tomorrow.” He said like that. And actually all big, big movements started from Bengal. The national movement also was started from Bengal. Whatever we may criticize Vivekananda, when… He’s a Bengali. He went first for preaching Indian religion. Rabindranath Tagore, he’s a Bengali. All big, big… Jayapataka: Aurobindo. Prabhupada: Aurobindo is a Bengali. Devotee (2): Paramahamsa Yogananda is also a Bengali. Prabhupada: Yes. You know him? Devotee (2): I don’t know him… (laughter) Prabhupada: No, no… Devotee (2): I’ve heard of him. Prabhupada: Bengali culture was very much adored. Surendranath Bannerjee started the political movement, and he was so well known. Even in Parliament, the Englishmen, English M.P.’s, he… They were speaking of Surendranath. They used to say “Surrendered not.” “Here is a person who is not ‘Surrender not.’ He’ll never surrender. ‘Surrender not.’ ” Actually, the British Empire was startled by the agitation of Surendranath Bannerjee. The Congress was started by Surendranath Bannerjee, this one Congress. Two Bengali and one Englishman started this Congress sometimes in 1887, 1867, like that. So in our childhood we used to see that Surendranath Bannerjee was being elected president of Congress almost every year. And Gandhi came into prominence when Surendranath Bannerjee surrendered. Formerly he was not surrendering. But the government gave him the first ministership, that “You become minister.” So he became a government man. Then Gandhi came in prominence. Surendranath Bannerjee was the first minister in India. [break] …in our childhood, if he would speak, thousands, thousands men will gather in Calcutta. [break] …Surendranath Bannerjee Road. Jayapataka: Yes, very prominent road. Prabhupada: Yes. Where my nephews have shop, Surendranath Bannerjee Road. Jayapataka: They did not knight him… [break] Prabhupada: His father was also very big man, Dr. Durgacaran Bannerjee. My sister hus…, Durgacaran Bannerjee, that is Surendranath Bannerjee father. He was a medical man. Jayapataka: It’s a smaller road. Prabhupada: Eh? Doctor’s land, Dr. Durgacaran Bannerjee Road, they belonged to very respectable family of that quarter, Bannerjee family. And Surendranath Bannerjee was the first I.C.S. I.C.S. He passed I.C.S. examination, Indian Civil Service, but he did not accept it. Aurobindo Ghosh was made by Surendranath Bannerjee. He was born in London. Aurobindo Ghosh’s father, Manmohan Ghosh, he was a medical man in London. He was born… He’s English birth. Well, later on, he became English-hater. Jayapataka: French-lover. Prabhupada: Eh? Jayapataka: Lover of the French. Prabhupada: He? Jayapataka: Aurobindo? Prabhupada: No, who says? Jayapataka: He always had some French people with him? Prabhupada: No, no. That… One French girl entrapped him. That woman spoiled him. He was actually practicing yoga very nice. After his release from political entanglement, actually he became a yogi, but this Frenchwoman, who became later on “Mother,” she spoiled her ca…, his career. He became a bhogi then. (laughter) Instead of yogi… Otherwise, he was becoming yogi. You’ll find from his photo. In the beginning, he was very lean and thin, and later on, when he died, he was very fatty. Means bhogi. [break] …yogi bhogi, rogi. There are three. Devotee (3): Rogi. Prabhupada: Rogi means diseased, and bhogi means flourishing, and yogi means transcendentalist. Hrdayananda: Rogi. Hari-sauri: What is…? A yogi passes stool once a day, a bhogi twice and a rogi more. Prabhupada: Who told you. Eh? Hari-sauri: That’s what we were told when we first joined the temple to stop us over-eating. Jayapataka: Some devotees were holding their stool for the next day to be a yogi, (laughter) the second time coming. And getting stomachache. Prabhupada: Is it a fact? Jayapataka: Yes. Prabhupada: Accha? Jayapataka: I heard… They thought that was the criterion. Prabhupada: This is called maksi manda kanani. (?) A clerk was making a fair book from the rough book. So he went to the toilet room and he was… Like this. So all of a sudden his boss came: “What you are doing here?” “Sir, I am trying to capture one fly.” “And why?” “No, I am making the fair copy of the book, but in the original book, there is a fly smashed. (laughter) So I have to paste one fly.” There are such fools. Maksi manda kanani. “There is a fly, paste. So in the fair copy, there must be a fly, paste.” [break] Yes. Unless there is pujari, what is the meaning of temple? Jayapataka: Separate? Prabhupada: Yes. That is actual temple. Jayapataka: Well, they’ll be so many brahmanas being made. Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jayapataka: Everything… Even he includes Buddha and Kalki. Hari-sauri: All the incarnations as well. Jayapataka: I… In the last… Prabhupada: Dasavatara. Jayapataka: Fifty-three avataras. Prabhupada: Fifty-three? Jayapataka: Yes, I don’t…, he…, fifty-three, know why. Prabhupada: How many avataras are there mentioned in the Bhagavata? Hari-sauri: About twenty-six or something like that. Jayapataka: Twenty-five, twenty-six. Hari-sauri: Twenty-five or twenty-six. And then all the Visnu expansions. Jayapataka: They needed twenty-four Visnu expansions and then the incarnations in the Bhagavatam. Prabhupada: Twenty-six? That is Vaikuntha. Anyway… [break] Yes, planetarium… Devotee (4): Temple and planetarium. Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee (4): “World’s largest planetarium and Temple of Understanding.” Prabhupada: No “Understanding” simply Vedic “Temple of Vedic Planetarium,” That’s all. We shall show the Vedic conception of planetary system within this material world and above the material world. [break] We are going to exhibit the Vedic culture throughout the whole world, and they’ll come here. Jayapataka: The whole world will be coming here to… Prabhupada: Yes. Jayapataka: …visit. Prabhupada: Just like they come to see the Taj Mahal… Hrdayananda: Yes. Prabhupada: …the architectural culture, they’ll come to see the civilization culture, the philosophical culture, the religious culture by practical demonstration with dolls and other things. Jayapataka: And we’ll be advertising that all over the world. Prabhupada: Yes. Hrdayananda: It is a perfect plan. Prabhupada: Yes. Jayapataka: There can be a model of that temple in every temple all over the world. Prabhupada: Yes. Jayapataka: So then people can… Then advertising, “Come here.” Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Actually it will be an unique thing in the world. There is no such thing all over the world. That we shall do. And not only simply showing museum, but educating people to that idea. Hrdayananda: Preaching. Prabhupada: Right. With factual knowledge, books, not fictitious. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
February 27, 1976, Mayapura