Morning Walk Conversation Prabhupada: They’ll never accept. But if they simply accept chanting, it will work. (tape of Prabhupada chanting Govindam prayers in background) [break] …say on these big, big buildings, but chant Hare Krsna. Guru-krpa: Svanusthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. Prabhupada: If you make condition that you stop this, it will be failure. And it is not possible. Guru-krpa: I don’t think you did like that in the beginning. Prabhupada: Eh? Guru-krpa: In the beginning you just asked everyone to chant, and naturally they wanted to do more after. Prabhupada: And if they chant, gradually they’ll be purified. (chants japa) [break] …you take another body, you will greet…. This philosophy does not appeal to the Westerners. Eh? I think so. “Oh, what nonsense this is, speaking?” Eh? Do they not think like that? Guru-krpa: Yes, they do. Prabhupada: But that is the actual fact. Devotee (1): This philosophy’s alien to everything they heard, so it’s different than everything they heard. Prabhupada: No, no, the…. A fact is that. Why it is alien? Pusta Krsna: Well, the Western religions have taught that whatever you do in this lifetime will determine whether you go to heaven or hell, and there’s no second chance. Prabhupada: So…. So they are not afraid of going to hell? There are two alternatives, either heaven or hell. But if he’s going to hell? Guru-krpa: That’s why they have confession. Prabhupada: Oh, finished everything. Devotee (2): Contract. Prabhupada: How he…? Guru-krpa: Like my father is very sinful, but he would always say, “The good Lord is protecting me.” He would always say, “God, God,” but he never would follow anything. [break] Prabhupada: …wars? Why…? Why the God does not stop the wars? And they are so much afraid of war. What is the answer? Guru-krpa: Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti [Bhag. 5.5.4]. They are mad for sense gratification. Prabhupada: No…. That is all right, but God…. Your father says Lord will protect, but when there is atomic bomb, why He does not protect? Guru-krpa: Well, up to now He’s protected. Prabhupada: He is protected. Others are not protected. So his term has not yet come. But what is the answer, that “Lord has become your obedient servant to protect. And when He does not?” Actually He does not. The…. In Europe they are very, very much afraid of war, next war. You know that? It becomes a terrible fright for them. Therefore war was not declared. They are very much frightened. They have suffered two big world wars. So why the God did not protect them? [break] …cow dung philosophy. Cow dung philosophy you know? That one cow dung is just passed through, and the other cow dung is being burned. So this cow dung is laughing, “Oh, you are burned.” (laughter) He does not know that when the…. She will be burned. She will be dried up; she will be burned. So your father’s logic is like that, “I am protected,” laughing at the death of others. Cow dung philosophy. Guru-krpa: I wouldn’t even give him cow dung. Too good for him. [break] Prabhupada: …gobar hase(?). Gobar means just fresh cow dung. And she is laughing. And the dry cow dung, he is burning. Bhute pare gobar hase(?). This…. This little logic is very good. Devotee (1): Some people think, “I will never grow old and die.” Prabhupada: Kim ascaryam atah param. ahany ahani lokani gacchanti yama-mandiram sesah sthitam icchanti kim ascaryam atah param That is the eighth wonder. [break] Guru-krpa: …yesterday that in India even a simple village man, he has no material affluence, and still he can understand he is not this body. But here they are big, big learned philosophers and they cannot understand the first thing. Prabhupada: But how they received, eh? You were present. They came to receive: “Oh, it is our great fortune you have come.” And in your country, it is trespassing. Pusta Krsna: That was when we were in the field in Vrndavana. Prabhupada: Yes. Pusta Krsna: Very poor farmers came up very nicely to greet Prabhupada. Devotee (1): Western people want to think they’re the body. Otherwise how can they enjoy all their technology? Prabhupada: Hm? What is that? Devotee (1): They want to think they’re the body. They don’t want to hear that “I’m not the body,” because if they’re not in illusion, they can’t try and enjoy so much the things of the West. Prabhupada: That means foolish, less intelligent. Guru-krpa: We are walking across everyone’s field to go the river, and they are saying, “Haribol!” Prabhupada: Yes. Guru-krpa: Here they are coming with dogs. Pusta Krsna: Fences. Guru-krpa: Especially if it’s a devotee, they’ll be more eager to shoot. Prabhupada: [break] …foreign or this, a small river. [break] Devotee (2): 1717. Captain Cook. Guru-krpa: He’s the same one that went to Hawaii. Prabhupada: Oh. Guru-krpa: You know, and they never saw a white man there before. So the natives there in Hawaii were very enamored to see such a big white man, so they took him as God, and they were worshiping him. And one day… Prabhupada: Captain Cook? Guru-krpa: Yes. And one day he was walking across the rocks and he hit his foot on a rock and he began to bleed. When they saw the blood, they said, “He is not a God. He is just like us.” So they killed him and ate him. Prabhupada: Oh, oh. Killed him? Guru-krpa: Yeah, they killed him and ate him. Prabhupada: Accha? Guru-krpa: Yeah. Prabhupada: He was eaten? Guru-krpa: Yes. (laughter) He was taking advantage of their ignorance. [break] Prabhupada: …these original Hawaiians, they were man-eaters. Guru-krpa: Yes. Devotee (1): No, they weren’t. They just ate him. He had been there a couple of times, so they became suspicious when he came back. He had been exploiting them. [break] Guru-krpa: …were so worried, but this country is so big, and there’s only twelve million people. More people live in New York City than in this whole country. And they say “overpopulation.” Prabhupada: They would not allow. Guru-krpa: Yes, they don’t allow. Devotee (3): They have the “white Australia policy.” [break] Prabhupada: …Chinese man, Indians, they will come in large number. But they will not allow. That is the difficulty. Guru-krpa: There’s more cows in this country than people. Prabhupada: They are killing? Guru-krpa: They are eating them. Prabhupada: And other countries, they are starving for want of milk. Therefore I say the United Nation simply barking dogs. What is the value if they cannot adjust? United Nation, all the nations should take advantage all the facilities offered, but that they will not allow. And they are named, “United.” Just see. Farce. Devotee (1): In New Zealand they have a hundred million tons of surplus milk powder, and they can’t sell it, so they decided to feed it to the pigs. They could send it all over the world. Prabhupada: Why not take it free and send it to India? [break] …of the world. Everything is sufficiently there, but still, some are starving and some are enjoying for want of Krsna consciousness. Guru-krpa: The rascals, they try to blame everything on Krsna by saying, “Why is Krsna letting people starve?” Prabhupada: Krsna is giving them sufficient. They are mismanaging. Still, Krsna is still bad. Envious. Krsna created this earth. Did He say, “This is for the Australians. This is for the Americans”? Did He say? Why you are keeping so much land as “Australia”? That is also Krsna’s fault? Australia was never given to the Englishmen. They came and they, by force they took it. So similarly America, the land was there. Devotee (3): They call this colonization, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Whatever you may call, there are thieves, rogues and thieves. That’s all. Devotee (3): Exploiting. Guru-krpa: Now they’re dividing up the booty, fighting over it. Prabhupada: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, “Please honestly, religious divide.” The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in…. Now they are making laws, morality. Devotee (1): They have a saying, “Honor among thieves.” Prabhupada: Yes. [break] This has been named by father, kaitava, simply cheating. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo ’tra [SB 1.1.2] The duplicity, hypocrisy, is there completely rejected. Guru-krpa: Krsna is a better cheater, though. He will cheat them in the end. Prabhupada: Krsna is not cheater. The Krsna’s energy is so powerful that anyone who is a cheater, he will be cheated, that’s all, automatically. [break] If you infect some disease, you’ll have to suffer, automatically. It is not that the disease has to be injected. No. Because you have infected, you’ll suffer. The same law is there. You have done this sinful. You’ll suffer that. That is the cycle of birth and death. You have created mentality. You’ll become the same animal, and you suffer. Karanam guna-sango ’sya. [break] …we have. We have seen this cloud, extraordinary. Devotee (2): They can also… Pusta Krsna: The horn. The horn. Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee (2): So it’s very dirty river. Prabhupada: Ah. Devotee (3): They say it is the upside-down river. It is more blue on the bottom than it is on the top. Devotee (2): In factories they put all of their waste into the river. [break] Devotee (1): Prabhupada, last night you were describing how people serve their dogs. And now, in the Western countries, they have restaurants where you can take your dog, and he sits at the table with you and they serve a meal for him. And they have catering services. You can call up, and they will bring a special meal to your dog, so he can eat at his home. They have beauty parlors for dogs, everything. Prabhupada: Yes, they have taken dogs as God. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. [break] …all the centers, then how many days it takes? Pusta Krsna: To visit all of our centers in the world? Prabhupada: No, Europe, America? That is world round. Pusta Krsna: About three months if you stayed one day in each center. Prabhupada: No, no, no, one day only? Guru-krpa: Thirty-five days. Pusta Krsna: No, no, to visit each center and stay there for some time. Guru-krpa: Some time? Prabhupada: “Some time” means five to seven days. Pusta Krsna: Yes. Prabhupada: Say average, six days. Pusta Krsna: At least a half a year, six months, seven months. Prabhupada: So, so much time. Guru-krpa: Some of the temples are very small, though. Prabhupada: No, average… Guru-krpa: They can come to the big temple. Like here we have three centers. They all come here. Say the big ones in America, there’s about six, six, seven big temples which the others can go to. They have facility to accommodate them. Then six or seven temples would be about a month and a half. Prabhupada: And similarly six and seven in Europe. Guru-krpa: Europe, there are…. England, France, and Germany. No, that’s big. Say about… Prabhupada: Switzerland. Guru-krpa: …four or five weeks. Altogether it’s eleven weeks, maybe even two and a half, three months. Pusta Krsna: I think you were possibly wanting to stop in Tehran this year on the way back to India? Prabhupada: Hm, yes. Devotee (2): We have word from the Melbourne City Council that they intend now not to let us have our annual Rathayatra festival. Prabhupada: Eh? Devotee (2): They want to stop our Rathayatra festival. Prabhupada: Where? Devotee (2): In Melbourne. We have got official letter from the City Council, and they are saying that we need not apply anymore. Prabhupada: That… Guru-krpa: So we will make propaganda several months before the festival. Prabhupada: No, you can go to the court. Devotee (2): They are claiming we make too much mess on the streets after the festival, too many flowers on the streets. Prabhupada: So it is a festival. There must be crowd. You have no festival? Unfortunate. Guru-krpa: They have festival, and it’s beer cans, not flowers. Prabhupada: So you must fight to the court. How they can stop? It is our religious function. (pause) [break] …to curb down this movement. In Europe, America, Australia… Devotees: Jaya Prabhupada. [break] Prabhupada: (in car) …overeating. Guru-krpa: Things are to stop their farms. Prabhupada: I think so. They have gone deliberately. We are against cow-killing, so if the movement increases, then their cow-killing may be jeopardized. Guru-krpa: Then they’d have to close many farms. On the grounds that milk causes hepatitis… Prabhupada: Yes. Guru-krpa: …they’d have to close many farms. The government gives aid to so many different groups, but they will not give any aid to our group, although we are doing the most work. Prabhupada: What is the reason? Devotee (1): “Krsna…” Guru-krpa: No, we are too much revolutionary for them, our lifestyle, everything. Prabhupada: That means they do not like this movement. Guru-krpa: Just like those people who came yesterday. They could appreciate out movement, but if they felt that we jeopardized their job or something of that nature, then they would go against us, ’cause we are very small, but if we became very popular movement, so… Prabhupada: Then what to do? Guru-krpa: Go on with our work. Prabhupada: Yes. Guru-krpa: We are here to please Krsna… Prabhupada: That’s it. Guru-krpa: …not to please them. Prabhupada: One thing immediately inform Ramesvara. In the Bhagavad-gita yesterday they have edited “cattle-raising.” But not cattle-raising. Cattle-raising means to grow and killing. That is the…. Means the rascals, they have edited. Pusta Krsna: Yeah, and we’re…. (interference) Prabhupada: And “protection of cows,” clearly. Guru-krpa: Chapter Eighteen, Bhagavad-gita, that the vaisyas work… Pusta Krsna: Oh, krsi-go-raksya. Prabhupada: Ah, krsi-go-raksya. Immediately inform them. Pusta Krsna: Okay. I noticed that also. I thought it was strange, some time back. [break] Prabhupada: Hayagriva edited. He thought, “cattle-raising.” Not “cattle-raising,” but the word…. There…. It is mistranslation. It is go-raksya, “giving protection to the cows.” Especially mentioned, go-raksya, not otherwise. The animal-eaters may take other animals, but not cow. They can take the pig, goats, lambs, rabbits, so many others, if they at all want to eat meat, birds, these so many. There is no such mention that “Animals should be protected,” no. “Cows should be protected.” That is Krsna’s order. [break] They have decided to kill the cow. They have decided, “No brain. Eat.” And our prayer is go-brahmana-hitaya ca, “to do good to the brahmanas and the cows.” Actually it is revolutionary to the modern age. But how it is possible we say otherwise? That Bon Maharaja came and said, “Right? Am I right?” (?) When Bon Maharaja here…. When our students said something, “Oh, that you cannot say. That you cannot say.” He said like that. Guru-krpa: Yeah? Prabhupada: Yes. Guru-krpa: We can say; you cannot say. Prabhupada: He’s such a rascal. Pusta Krsna: Devotees, we’re preaching along the lines that we’re preaching, and he was saying, “You cannot say this”? Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Guru-krpa: Just like we don’t say, “You are rascal.” We say, “Krsna says you are rascal.” Prabhupada: Yes. Guru-krpa: “So you are saying Krsna cannot say?” Pusta Krsna: Na dhanam na janam na sundarim. He’s looking for some following. Prabhupada: That’s all. Guru-krpa: He cannot hit the heart. Prabhupada: He was begging, “Give me. Give me (indistinct) (transportion check?)” Who is the rascal that he’ll give him (transportion?)? What he is? But he is such a fool, he’s begging, “Give me (transportion check?).” Why they’ll give you? Then what benefit they’ll derive? But he has no common sense to think. Guru-krpa: That is what I think this disease is, with the Siddha’s group, is they are looking for followers, and they do not preach in your style because they would not attract people. Prabhupada: Sridhara’s group? Guru-krpa: Yes. Prabhupada: Sridhara Svami? Guru-krpa: No, Siddha-svarupa. Prabhupada: Oh, Siddha-svarupa, oh. Guru-krpa: They are after followers, and they do not speak strongly, for people would go away. Pusta Krsna: In one sense it’s also confirmed by Rupa Gosvami, yena tena prakarena manah krsne nivesayet, sarve vidhi-nisedha syur… Prabhupada: Eh? Pusta Krsna: That “First of all help people to think of Krsna, and then later on, the rules and regulations…” Guru-krpa: But we follow in the footsteps…. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. We must follow what the spiritual master is doing. We cannot create our own way. Then we will not be successful. Pusta Krsna: No, that’s true, but… Guru-krpa: That is their idea. They have created their own way to spread Krsna consciousness. Prabhupada: Yes, that idea is there. They are thinking of their own way. That is bad. We have got so much, so many literatures. They are printing their own literature and…. That is disturbing, yes. What he’ll prepare? He’s not a liberated person. He’s thinking, somebody said, that “I’ll give my interpretation on Bhagavata.” If these things are going, they are…. It is against our principles. [break] Guru-krpa: You know how to spread Krsna consciousness. Therefore I follow. I don’t even know what Krsna is. I’m just trying to follow. Therefore that will be successful. Prabhupada: That is my preaching. What Krsna said, you say as it is. Don’t change. How you can give interpretation? And if he thinks that he can give another interpretation, what is this nonsense? Then he’s not following guru or Krsna, both. Guru-krsna-krpaya. One has to receive the mercy of guru and Krsna. Through guru, Krsna’s mercy. Guru-krpa: If they go on like this, can this be considered sampradaya-vihina ye mantras te viphalam matah? That is, their mantra is not so effective if people are surrendering to Krsna. Just like milk touched with the lips…. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
April 21, 1976, Melbourne