Bhagavad-gita 9.4
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Melbourne, April 23, 1976

Prabhupada: (leads devotees in chanting)

maya tatam idam sarvam jagad avyakta-murtina mat-sthani sarva-bhutani na caham tesv avasthitah

So God… Sometimes some foolish question is there, “Can you show me God?” The answer God is giving, that maya tatam idam sarvam: “I am everywhere. If you have eyes to see, you can see Me.” So actually God is everywhere; otherwise how He is God? God means the great. But you do not know how great He is. We simply say, “God is great,” but we have no idea how God is great. That is explained in the Vedic literature, that He is everywhere. God is everywhere. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. Eko ’py asau racayitum jagad-anda-kotim [Bs. 5.35].

There are… Material world means there are innumerable universes. Just like you cannot count the stars and planets. Every day you are seeing, at least at night you see, but can you count it? No, that is not possible. So this is only one universe, the universe in which our planet, this earthly planet is situated. It is tiny planet. Out of many millions of planets this is one. So we cannot even calculate this one planet. In which portion, which direction, which country is there, how many population, what is there. We have no calculation. This is God’s creation. Anything you take… You cannot count even your hair. You claim, “This is my hair.” Can you count it? No. That is God’s creation. Everywhere God is present and everything is innumerable, beyond our counting capacity.

In this way God is situated. Antar bahih. He is situated outside, He is situated inside also. Krsna says… This is quite reasonable, otherwise how He is God? Just like I am here, you are here, but you are not in your apartment. You are absent from your apartment. But God, God means He is in his apartment and He is everywhere. That is God. The rascals, they claim that “I am God.” What kind of God you are? Are you everywhere spread? So you should not accept such cheap God. God’s description is there in the sastra. Eko ’py asau racayitum jagad-anda-kotim [Bs. 5.35]. One part, one portion is Paramatma, the Supersoul. In His Supersoul feature He is present in innumerable universes. Eko ’py asau racayitum jagad-anda-koti. Jagad-anda means the universe. It is just like an egg. They are anda. Anda means egg. The form is like egg. So there are millions. So to maintain the millions and millions of universes by His one portion, Paramatma, He is spread. He is called Ksirodakasayi Visnu. It is a great science. God expands Himself in so many ways, and for the material world He is expanded as purusavatara: Karanodakasayi Visnu, Garbhodakasayi Visnu, Ksirodakasayi Visnu. He’s expanding like that. Causal Ocean.

The Causal Ocean, He is lying there, sleeping within the ocean, and from His breathing the universes are coming out. This is God. Because He is in a sleeping condition, that is expansion of God. That is not original God. Original God is Krsna. But he can expand Himself. Advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam adyam purana-purusam nava-yauvanam ca [Bs. 5.33]. That is God. Just have some idea what is God. So as Karanodakasayi Visnu, He is sleeping within the ocean, and as soon as there is question of sleeping, there is breathing also. The bubbles, the bubbles are expanding as universe. Yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah [Bs. 5.48]. So breathing means exhaling, inhaling. So when the breathing, air is coming out, innumerable universes are coming into form, and when He is inhaling, then all of them becomes annihilated. This is material world. Material world means it comes into existence at a certain date, it remains for some time, it gives so many by-products, and it expands, and then dwindles, then finish. This is material, everything. Your body is like that, my body is like that. The whole universe is like that.

So here it is explained, maya tatam idam sarvam. This is God’s impersonal expansion. When we cannot understand God, then we come first to the impersonal feature, everywhere, pantheism, which is known as, in philosophical terms, pantheism. There are different, I mean to say, ideas, and philosophical proposition. So this maya tatam idam. But the pantheists, because the materialist think of limited… (coughs) They think that “God is everywhere. Therefore there is no personal God.” No, that is foolish, foolishness. He is everywhere, it is explained here. Maya tatam idam sarvam: “By Me…” Maya means, “by me.” “By Me, or by My energy, I am expanded everywhere.” Maya, this word, it is causative. Causative means I have caused. The example is… If you want to understand, the example is very simple. Just like as soon as the sun is risen, immediately the sunshine is expanded.

The other day, while coming here, we saw how within a second the sun arose from the sea water. Not from the sea… It looks like that. Immediately, within a second, the whole world became illuminated. Immediately, within a second. So the, what is this illumination? It is the expansion of the sunshine. But because the expansion is there it does not mean the sun globe is finished. The sun globe is there, and within the sun globe the sun-god is there or the predominating personality of the sun globe is there. His name is also known to us. His name is Vivasvan.

Just like in America the President’s name is Ford. Those who are intelligent person, he knows, “Oh, you are President.” Similarly, every planet, there is a president. There is chief person. And the name are recorded in the Vedic literature. And in the Bhagavad-gita you’ll find that Krsna sometimes in forty millions of years ago… We calculated, forty or four hundred. Some millions of years, He met the sun-god and He spoke Bhagavad-gita. Imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. So we have to take information from the right source. Then we are awareness of everything. How God is expanded everywhere, you can take this example. The sun is away from us, according to the scientists calculation, 93,000,000 miles away. And immediately, within a second, his sunshine is expanded all over the universe. Immediately. At least 93,000,000’s of miles. Within a second.

So if it is possible by ordinary material thing—Krsna, God, is full spiritual—how much spiritually powerful He is, that He can expand Himself all over the universes? This is called thoughtful consideration. So Krsna… When Krsna says, maya tatam idam sarvam, “I am expanded everywhere,” where is the difficulty to understand? There is no difficulty—if we are sane person. If we can see that “In one universe there is one sun and the sun is so powerful, it is a material thing, and there are innumerable universes and there are innumerable suns. One who has created these suns, how much powerful He is, “this is the calculation, common sense. If one sun, which is material, if it is so powerful that for millions and millions of years it is giving its energy, heat and light—still, it is so bright and powerful and temperature is so high—how much powerful temperature is of God, you can just imagine.

So when He said, maya tatam idam sarvam, it is not a false pride. It is fact. Simply we must have brain to understand. Maya tatam idam sarvam. Every particle, every atom, there is presence of God. That is stated in the sastra. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. Paramanu means the atom. God is within the atom. So God is within you also. God is outside; God is within. Outside, as we see these five elements… What are these five elements? The same thing, expansion of God’s energy. Just like we practically see scientifically, the sunshine is the cause of this universe. Within the sunshine all the planets have grown, and in each and every planet, due to the sunshine the vegetables are growing. There are leaves. When there is no sunshine the leaf falls down. As soon as the sunshine is there the colorful fruits and flowers and leaves come out. Everything is due to the sunshine.

Similarly, the supreme sun is Krsna. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. He has got… Just like the sun has shining, similarly—try to understand—God has got His effulgence, bodily shining. That is called brahmajyoti. When the brahmajyoti is there innumerable universes are generated. Therefore he is cause of all creation. It doesn’t require to manufacture each and every universe. He is so powerful that in His effulgence, in His shining, innumerable universes are created. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti-kotisv asesa-vasudhadi-vibhuti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. In each universe there are many millions and millions of stars and planets.

These are the description in the Vedic literature. So we have to learn. You cannot by your tiny effort with limited power, limited sense, I mean to say, perception, you cannot speculate. You have to understand from authoritative statements. That is called Veda. Vedas means knowledge which is perfect knowledge and if you study Vedas, then you get perfect knowledge of everything. And the cream of the Vedic knowledge is here in the Bhagavad-gita. So if you read Bhagavad-gita carefully, then you get all the knowledge very perfectly. Here it is said, maya tatam idam sarvam jagad avyakta-murtina. And that expansion, that impersonal expansion, avyakta, not manifested… You cannot see God in person in this expansion. Therefore sometimes we foolishly say that “Can you show me God?” God is there. You have to make your eyes to see. Just like God is here in the temple but somebody is thinking that “This is not God. This is a statue or an idol. They are worshiping idol.” Supposing it is idol, but if God is everywhere, why He is not in the idol? What is the argument? If God is everywhere, then why He is not idol? God has the power. And actually this is not idol. This is God’s energy. The same example: The sunshine is everywhere, so originally sunshine is the cause of everything.

Similarly, God’s effulgence is the cause of material things also. That is explained in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gita. Bhumir apo ’nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca. The five elements… [break] …have been summarized into three: external energy, internal energy, and marginal energy. The external energy is this material expansion, manifestation. Similarly, there is internal energy, the spiritual world manifestation, and in between them there is another energy called marginal energy, tatastha, that we are, we living entities. We are His marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Krsna’s energies, God’s energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and we are also permanent, jiva-bhuta. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20].

So the Krsna consciousness movement is to transfer oneself from this external energy to the internal energy. That is the purpose of all Vedic literature. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [Bg. 15.15]. To understand God and go back to home, back to Godhead, that is perfection of life. So here we are in the God’s energy. There is no doubt. Maya tatam, mat-sthani sarva-bhutani. Everything. Bhutani means all living entities, anything which has grown. The trees, the plants, the hills, the ocean, the sky—everything is resting in God’s energy. Mat-sthani sarva-bhutani na caham tesv avasthitah. But it is not that… The pantheists, they think that “If God has expanded in everything, then whatever I worship, that is God’s worship.” No. That is the… Krsna said, “No, that you cannot take.”

The same example: The sunshine is not different from the sun, and because the sunshine has entered within your room it does not mean the sun has entered in your room. If you try to understand, then you’ll understand that God is everywhere; still, He is not everywhere. This is His inconceivable power. Therefore, if we want to worship God, then we have to worship His form, His name, name, form, quality, pastime. Then we shall realize that God is person, Supreme Being, and He has got all the propensities as we have got. Because we are part and parcel of God, we can study God’s personality from our personality, just like we can study the father by the symptoms of the son—this is crude example—similarly, whatever propensities we have got, wherefrom the propensity is coming? It is coming from God.

Therefore in the Vedanta-sutra it is said, janmady asya yatah: [Bhag. 1.1.1] “Everything is emanating from God.” The original source of everything is God. So when we study our self minutely, that “what is our position?” Or by studying ourself we can study the nature of God. The difference is only that He is huge, the great, we are small particle, but the qualities are the same. You take a drop of the ocean water. The chemical composition is the same. The taste is the same. So that is the difference between a living entity and God. We are a small sample of God but God is great. If we understand this philosophy, then it is not difficult to understand what is God, and then we can establish our original relationship. And if we act accordingly, then our life is successful. Thank you very much.

Gurukrpa: If somebody would like to ask some question to Srila Prabhupada, raise your hand. No questions? Everybody agrees?

Guest (1) (young man): Would you like to give your views on psychiatry?

Pusta Krsna: Would you like to give your views on psychiatry? Psychiatry. Psychiatrist.

Prabhupada: What is that? (laughter)

Pusta Krsna: Well, when someone is having some kind of mental problem the psychiatrist analyzes it from the medical viewpoint, sometimes from the psychological viewpoint.

Prabhupada: Hm. Psychiatrist.

Pusta Krsna: Yes. (laughter)

Prabhupada: This is an expansion of the energy known as mind. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, kham mano buddhir eva ca. These are subtle matter. So different division. God’s creation is wonderful that even if you take the atom, there are so many things. That is… Scientists are… So what to speak of mind, thinking, feeling, willing, and there are so many divisions. So what is your question about the psychiatrist? It is a material thing and very subtle, and there are so many divisions. So what is your question about it?

Guest (1): I just wanted your views on your concept of…

Prabhupada: Yes, everything is resting on God. This is also resting on God.

Guest (1): Is it necessary to have a therapeutic system?

Prabhupada: No, everything First of all we have to understand that everything is expansion of God’s energy. So if you understand God, then the energies are automatically understood. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati. This is the Vedic injunction. If you try to understand God, then His energies also will be understood by you. If you know the root, if you water on the root of the tree, then the tree, whole tree, becomes luxuriantly flourished. So our proposition is: you take the root, Krsna, and you will understand everything properly from the root. If you want to understand the tree, whole tree, you try to understand it from the root, not from the top. So disease, any disease, if you understand the root cause of the disease you can give proper medicine and he’s cured.

So psychiatrists generally their patients are crazy fellows. Generally they treat crazy fellows. Is it not? No sane man goes to a psychiatrist. (laughter) Is it not a fact? So all these crazy men sometimes makes the psychiatrist a crazy also. So more or less, everyone is crazy. That is the… It is not my layman’s opinion. It is the opinion of a big medical surgeon. There was a case in the court, murder case. The murderer pleaded that “I became crazy, mad, at that time.” That is generally… So the medical man was called to examine. He was great civil surgeon in Calcutta. So he gave his opinion in the court that “So far I have treated many patients, so my opinion is that everyone is more or less a madman. More or less. It is a question of degree.” So our opinion is like that, that anyone who is not under the direct connection with God, he’s a crazy man. He’s a madman. Now you can treat. So we are also psychiatrists. We are pushing this Krsna consciousness. So because anyone who is in this material world—more or less crazy, madman. Because he doesn’t care for God, therefore he’s crazy. He is completely under the control of God, but still, he has the audacity to say, “No, I don’t believe in god.” Crazy man. So anyone who does not believe in God, he’s a crazy fellow. You can treat him. Everyone is patient.

prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]

This crazy fellow is fully under the control of material nature, and he’s still thinking that he is independent. That is craziness. Everyone is thinking like that, so everyone is a patient of psychiatrist. How we can declare independence? There is no independence. We are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam. This is knowledge. Nobody wants to die, but nature says, “You must die.” Where is your independence? Nobody wants to take birth, enter into the mother’s womb. But you must enter. Nobody wants to become old man. Nature says, “You must become old man.” Nobody wants disease. The nature says, “You must have disease.” So where is your independence? But the crazy fellow says, “I am independent. I think like this.” What is the value of your thinking? You may think in your favor but the nature will not allow you. So everyone is crazy who is declaring independence. He’s a crazy. Then? Any question? Yes, this question is very nice. Anyone who does not believe in God, does not surrender to God, he’s a crazy fellow, that’s all.

Guest (2) (girl): Srila Prabhupada, to go back home one must receive the mercy of the spiritual master. Is there any particular activity in devotional service which is more favorable to this, and if so, how does one know which activity to perform?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Gurukrpa: She wants to know what’s the best activity to perform to go back to Godhead.

Prabhupada: You are already performing Hare Krsna chant, very easy thing. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam [SB 7.5.23] That is the best education, to hear about God, to chant about God, to think about God, to worship God. In this way there are nine processes recommended. You are following that, at least trying to follow. Then, when you are perfect, then you’ll go. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. No more material body. You follow strictly the devotional process. There are nine different ways. But if you simply hear about God, then you also become perfect. Any one of them… You take nine of them, eight of them, seven of them, six of them, five of them—at least one you take, and you’ll be perfect. One must take. Just like Maharaja Pariksit, he took only one. He listened to Sukadeva Gosvami. He became perfect. Sukadeva Gosvami, he simply chanted; he became perfect.

sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam arcanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam (atma-nivedanam) [SB 7.5.23]

Arjuna, he simply took Krsna as a best friend; he became perfect. That is Bhagavad-gita. He has accepted Krsna as the best friend: “Krsna, although I am talking with You as friend, but I know what you are. So I am perplexed. Kindly give me lesson.” Sisyas te ’ham sadhi mam prapannam: “My dear Krsna, I am surrendering unto you. I accept you as my spiritual master. Kindly teach me.” So he became perfect by making Krsna his friend. So nine processes. Any process you take and do it perfectly; then you become perfect. So we are opening different centers all over the world. At least if they come and hear about Krsna they’ll become perfect, without doing anything, simply by hearing, hearing. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam. It is very easy. It is not at all difficult. Where is the difficulty? God has given us ear, and if we simply hear, listen what Krsna says, we become perfect.

Guest (3) (man): What if you hear in your heart but don’t act in your life.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Pusta Krsna: What if you hear but don’t act accordingly in your practical life?

Guest (3): You feel it in your heart…

Prabhupada: No, hear means you do it in practical life. Otherwise what is the hearing? Then just like one stone, he has got ear. That is not atten… Hearing means it will react. That is hearing. The more you hear, it will react. Then you practically do it. But everything comes by hearing. So hearing is so important. Just like even in your ordinary education you go to the school, college, and hear from your professor. Hearing is so important. Then you become perfect. You take your degrees. Similarly, the science of God, you simply hear about it. Sravanam kirtanam. Then, gradually, it will purify. Hearing means purifying the dirty things within the heart. That is hearing. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah [Bhag. 1.2.17] Because it is spiritual, hearing has got a potency to purify you. This is not ordinary hearing. This is spiritual hearing, so it has got a potency. Srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah. Anyone who takes part in this process of hearing and chanting, he becomes pious, purified. Just like if you touch some way or other the fire, it will act, similarly, Krsna is spiritual. You hear about Krsna; then it will act. Then you’ll be purified. So any other question?

Guest (4) (man): Srila Prabhupada, how can we understand why the Krsna consciousness movement seems to attract so many young boys and young girls in the Western world…

Prabhupada: Tax? Tax?

Hari-sauri: Attracts.

Prabhupada: Attracts, oh.

Guest (4): Attracts so many young people and not so much the middle-aged and older people in the Western world.

Prabhupada: Not only Western world, everywhere. Therefore they are called “old fools.” (laughter) Because they require time to forget what they have learned. Young men, they are receptive. Therefore, for education, younger age is recommended. There is a history in… One father and one daughter, they both appeared for B.A. examination. The father failed and the daughter passed. Younger generation, they can receive very nicely. Older generation, it is little difficult. Therefore it is recommended by Prahlada Maharaja,

kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha durlabham manusam janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam [SB 7.6.1]

He recommended, “My dear friends…” Prahlada Maharaja was five years old boy and he was preaching Krsna consciousness in his classroom. When the teachers are out he would preach Krsna consciousness. When friends would request, “My dear Prahlada, just play. This is tiffin hour,” so he said, “No, no, no, no. My dear friends,” kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha. “Immediately. We are now young boys. This is the time to learn.” Kaumara. Kaumara means between five to ten years. This is the time. Dharman bhagavatan iha. Why? Now durlabham manusam janma: “Don’t think that your life is guaranteed. We can die at any moment. Better understand the science of God in this early age.” This is Prahlada Maharaja’s recommendation. So this bhagavata-dharma, Krsna consciousness, should be learned from the very beginning. Then it will be solid. By nature’s way younger generation, they capture very nicely. Yes. This question was asked by many gentlemen to me, that “Why younger generation attracted?” Because they are receptive. This is the age. So don’t waste time. From the very beginning of life, when we can talk, when we can walk, learn Krsna consciousness, chant Hare Krsna. Life will be successful.

We are, therefore, opening so many gurukulas to teach from the very beginning of life. Brahmacari gurukule vasan danto guror hitam. They should be trained up how to offer respect to guru, to superior. These things are not taught. The Vedic system is first brahmacari, then grhastha. That is compulsory, brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa, four divisions. First of all he must be trained up first-class brahmacari, up to twenty-five years. And then, if he likes, he can enter into family life. That is also up to fifty years. Naturally a person after being trained up as brahmacari enters family life, he cannot stay in family life for all the days. Fifty years, when his sons are grown up, say twenty years, twenty-five years, then he can retire from family life. That is called vanaprastha. The wife can remain as assistant, not for any other purpose. Then, when he is fully prepared, the wife goes to the care of elderly children and the wife takes sannyasa.

But this culture is lost. Now unless one is shot dead, he would not leave family life. (laughter) Even Mahatma Gandhi, he got independence and everything; still he would not leave. So he was shot dead. This is our position. All politicians, all big big men, they are not going to retire, stuck up. This is not civilization. When one is young, he can remain with family, wife, children, twenty-five to fifty years. That’s all. No more. Give up. Then take vanaprastha. Train up yourself for becoming sannyasi. Then take sannyasa simply for understanding God. That is sannyasa. You can take sannyasa from the very beginning, but if it is not possible, at least at the fag end of your life everyone should take sannyasa and completely devote in understanding the science of God. That is called sannyasa.

This is Vedic system, varnasrama-dharma. Now it is foolishly going as Hindu dharma. What is the Hindu dharma? Hindu is not found even in the scriptures. This is a name given by the Mohammedans. Sindu. There is a river, Sindu. From Sindu it has come, “Hindu.” Actually the Vedic culture is varnasrama-dharma, four varnas and four asramas. That is real Vedic culture, how to create brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa—eight. This is called varnasrama-dharma.

varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman visnur aradhyate pantha nanyat tat-tosa-karanam

Actually human civilization begins when this institution of varnasrama is accepted. Otherwise it is animal civilization—eating, sleeping, mating, and dancing, that’s all. All right. Thank you very much. (end)