Morning Walk Conversation (in car) Prabhupada: …in the procession? Ramesvara: This bus is for carrying prasadam. Tamala Krsna: Oh. Maybe they should go in the procession though. That would look impressive, wouldn’t it? Prabhupada: All our cars behind. Tamala Krsna: We could have had our twenty-five vans and eight buses. Pusta Krsna: Decorated, no? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: Adi-kesava Maharaja, did you hear that? The three buses should go in the procession. Prabhupada: Full opulence. Ramesvara: Full opulence. Prabhupada: Sad-aisvarya-purna. Tamala Krsna: What an idea! Adi-kesava: The buses are all going down there to take care of the prasadam. Ramesvara: They’re carrying the prasadam. Adi-kesava: And also to do the… Tamala Krsna: Cooking the poppers. Adi-kesava: And also do the treasury. Tamala Krsna: So I want three buses together in the… Prabhupada: All cars, also. Ramesvara: The cars. (laughs) Some of the cars don’t look appropriate. Some of the cars are used cars, they do not look very nice. Prabhupada: No, no. Good cars. Ramesvara: The nice-looking cars. Prabhupada: Good cars. This car and the other van. Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes, this car will be there. So that’s nice. Three buses, Adi-kesava, will you take care of that? Adi-kesava: And the nice-looking vans? Tamala Krsna: Did the other two buses arrive? Adi-kesava: I know only of the two that are here. Ramesvara: [break] …were just amazed at the dancing of Lord Caitanya. How Lord Jagannatha would stop His car just to see. It says that Lord Jagannatha is maintaining the whole universe, so who can carry Him? Only by His sweet will for His own pastimes can He be moved. And the cart that moves Him is as tall as Mount Sumeru. Prabhupada: Potamkin…, and what was that in Washington, Potomyer? Devotees: Potomac. Ramesvara: And you wrote that just like the cart of Jagannatha is compared to Mount Sumeru, similarly, in London they were comparing it to that statue of Lord Nelson. Tamala Krsna: Lord Nelson’s column. Ramesvara: Lord Nelson’s column. Prabhupada: Rival to Nelson. They published, Guardian. Ramesvara: The Guardian, yes. Tamala Krsna: Good newspaper. Prabhupada: It has become against. Tamala Krsna: Maybe because… Prabhupada: It is political. Tamala Krsna: Maybe because of that. Prabhupada: Only politics. So mean-minded, they have no idea even beyond politics. Tamala Krsna: (japa) Where are the rathas now? Adi-kesava: They’re starting to pull. Ramesvara: Dhrstadyumna Maharaja… Tamala Krsna: There’s one of them. Ramesvara: The men are getting ready to pull them now. Tamala Krsna: Oh, the tops are down though. Ramesvara: For the wires. They have to be down to move them. Sixty men are already engaged in pulling the ratha carts. Tamala Krsna: Since five this morning. Ramesvara: Sixty men. Tamala Krsna: Where are you going, Adi-kesava? Adi-kesava: Well, they’re pulling the cart up. Can’t really go right down next to them. It’s a very steep incline. Tamala Krsna: Adi-kesava, can you just go and let us see the carts? Ramesvara: Yes, just drive right up to it, they should wait. Tamala Krsna: They can wait for a minute. It’s not budging, so there’s no loss. Ramesvara: No, they announced that this cart was not moving, and they needed fifteen more men. They announced that in the temple room. Tamala Krsna: Go down there, Adi-kesava. Prabhupada: More fifteen men required? Ramesvara: Yes. Prabhupada: Very big. Others have been moved? Tamala Krsna: No. Ramesvara: Yes, all three are here. Adi-kesava: They weigh fourteen thousand pounds each. Tamala Krsna: How do you like them, Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Oh, yes, they are nice. Tamala Krsna: Strong? Strong enough? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: Now it’s going to move because you’re here, Prabhupada. Ramesvara: Oh, they have mirrors on the wheels. Adi-kesava: Now they are moving. Tamala Krsna: Uh-oh, it’s caught in the wire up there. Ramesvara: That’s…, in Philadelphia it was constantly catching. Tamala Krsna: There are mirrors all over the wheels, Ramesvara. Ramesvara: Yes, I see. Tamala Krsna: Where are the camaras? Adi-kesava: They have the camaras. They’ll be put on afterwards. Tamala Krsna: Is this the small one or the medium size? Adi-kesava: This is the big one. (devotees shouting “Prabhupada! Balarama!”) Ramesvara: By chanting your name they are getting so much strength. Satsvarupa: They are chanting “Prabhupada, Balarama.” Tamala Krsna: That’s the best combination. There’s Jayananda leading the way. Prabhupada: Ah, the wheels are very nice. Tamala Krsna: Really. Jayananda has made good for all the other wheels. Adi-kesava: This is the cart you will ride, Srila Prabhupada. Tamala Krsna: This is Lady Subhadra’s cart from Chicago. We borrowed it. Adi-kesava: It’s our cart now. Tamala Krsna: Could have been painted, the wheels. Ramesvara: Thick coat of lacquer or varnish. Tamala Krsna: On the wheels. Ramesvara: Yes, right on the wood. Tamala Krsna: That’s the only place that was varnished in Philadelphia? The rest is painted, right? Ramesvara: I believe so. Adi-kesava: Simply by your presence, Srila Prabhupada, the carts will move. Tamala Krsna: Those look like good ropes. Adi-kesava: He said they are made out of some nylon, very strong. Ramesvara: Lord Jagannatha was carried by… Tamala Krsna: Wheels are all right? Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Tamala Krsna: Wow, they are painted nicely. It’s going to be a very attractive ceremony. Prabhupada: So all the cars should go also, behind. Tamala Krsna: We have some…, I think we have a lot of good vans here, Ramesvara. Ramesvara: We can arrange for it at prasadam. That’s the time when everyone should be there. Prabhupada: Jaya. (laughs) Hare Krsna. Very nicely made, everything. Tamala Krsna: Jaya. Thank you for your blessings, Srila Prabhupada. Look at those spires! Prabhupada, do you see that spire? There’s a spire at the top. Ramesvara: Right at the top, right under the canopy on that cart. Tamala Krsna: It’s going to be placed on top. Ramesvara: And that must be a flag on top. Tamala Krsna: Golden colored? Ramesvara: Like gold. Tamala Krsna: Huge spire. Prabhupada: Not very heavy? Tamala Krsna: The spire? No, it’s made of foam, that, styrofoam. It couldn’t weigh more than five, ten pounds. Ramesvara: But it looks very, Tamala Krsna: It looks very heavy though. That’s a good idea, because it won’t weigh the canopies down. Ramesvara: That’s a very good idea. Tamala Krsna: Carve it out of styrofoam. It’s a big festival. The first year three chariots. Ramesvara: Whew! They’re going to simply be astonished when the public sees this. The newspapers, they will just be…, they’ve never seen anything like it. They cannot imagine it. Tamala Krsna: How big are those wheels, Ramesvara? Ramesvara: Oh, they must be at least eight feet. Adi-kesava: Seven and a half. Ramesvara: Seven and a half feet. Prabhupada: Jaya. Jaya. Tamala Krsna: There’s the park. Prabhupada: Very nicely made. Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Jaya! Prabhupada: Jaya. Tamala Krsna: Jayananda looks exhausted. Prabhupada: Huh? Tamala Krsna: He’s worked so… Ramesvara: Staying up all nights, working. Adi-kesava: For five days he hasn’t gone to sleep. Tamala Krsna: Five days and nights he’s worked continuously. Prabhupada: Jaya. [break] Tamala Krsna: …this city, this will be a small parade with some hand-pulled floats. Another trick of the Hare Krsnas. Prabhupada: Bali Maharaja was asked for three feet of land. “Very good. You speak so nicely, such intelligent, but You are boy, You do not know how to ask. I can give You a big island.” “No, I must be satisfied as I require. I don’t want more. Only three feet, that’s all.” Ramesvara: That story is in the Eighth Canto, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Hmm. I’m going now with that story. [break] “Rascal, if you give like that, where you will stay? He’ll take everything!” Smarta brahmana. Simply considering “How I shall live?” (laughs) Tamala Krsna: Materialist. Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: What did Bali Maharaja reply? Prabhupada: He rejected guru. “You are not guru.” Ramesvara: Sukracarya. Satsvarupa: But that guru told him to worship Visnu officially. Prabhupada: No, he was by nature Visnu, Vaisnava, like the grandfather, Prahlada Maharaja. Satsvarupa: But he was a demon. Prabhupada: Who? Satsvarupa: Born as a demon, in a demon family, not a demon. Prabhupada: Demon family. Visnu-dvesi(?). Still, they are ksatriyas. Just like the Europeans and Americans, they were ksatriyas, now they have become demons. Actually they are ksatriyas. I have studied. And the Jews are vaisyas. (laughter) Ramesvara: The Jews are vaisyas. Tamala Krsna: That’s why they call them the American Marwaris. Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. They know how to do business and earn money. Tamala Krsna: A lot of your disciples are Jewish. Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore they know how to make money. Tamala Krsna: They take up your idea of book distribution and they make all the money from it. (laughing) Prabhupada: Everything can be utilized for Krsna. Pranair arthair dhiya vacah. [break] Ramesvara: Sky is very clear. Prabhupada: Yes, good morning. When the sky is clear the Englishmen call “good morning.” This is the origin of “good morning.” Because unfortunately, in their country the sky is never clear. If by chance some day it is clear, they say “Oh, it is a good morning.” That is the origin of that. One Englishman told me. Tamala Krsna: But now they always greet each other by saying “Good morning, sir.” Prabhupada: No, it has become now a phrase, but originally the word originated when the morning was good, because that is a great fortune for them. (laughter) Yes, in London I was three months; always gloomy, damp, cloudy. Therefore I, television said, they asked, “What is your idea of hell?” and “This is hell, London. London is hell.” He stopped. He did not ask anything more. This is hell. Simply by big, big buildings, you are keeping as heaven, but it is the hell. Tamala Krsna: The British propagated in India though that everything was like milk and honey… Prabhupada: That’s all. Tamala Krsna: …in Britain. Prabhupada: They propagated the Thames River as very big river. And when I first saw it, it is canal. (laughter) Tamala Krsna: Canal. And the Ganges they said was nasty. Thames was a river and the Ganges was… Prabhupada: Jamesford, Lord James. That Jamesford is a village only. Some big man, little, take the title lord and go and become governor there. And when some Indian comes they say that Lord Jamesford was traveling in third-class compartment in railway. Tamala Krsna: These buildings are not actually made of this stone. They are made of brick, covered by stone. Prabhupada: But they are very nicely made. It is not possible now to construct such nice… Tamala Krsna: Kirtanananda is constructing like this, though. Prabhupada: Yes. What is this building? Tamala Krsna: Museum of Natural History. Actually, it is made of stone. The museums are… Prabhupada: Government building, they can stand at the cost of taxpayer. [break] West Central Park? Tamala Krsna: Yes. Central Park West, it’s called. Ramesvara: That portion there, Srila Prabhupada, through the trees there is a green dome—I don’t know if it can be seen now—that is the Planetarium of the Museum of Natural History. All atheistic arguments are presented there. Prabhupada: What is that argument? Ramesvara: All their arguments that life comes from matter, that the universe has no life, or at least that there are just all chemical reactions are the cause of creation of stars; that there are many suns. All these arguments. Tamala Krsna: They have in that museum many scales, and you can go on the scales and weigh yourself as you would weigh on different planets. I remember when I was a child I used to go on one scale after another. Ramesvara: They speculate that if you were on the moon planet, say you weigh one hundred fifty pounds on earth, if you were on the moon planet you would weigh much less. Pusta Krsna: Twenty-five pounds, one-sixth. Ramesvara: And you would be able to be so light that you could jump very high. Tamala Krsna: Almost floating. Prabhupada: How they have understood these things? From here? Ramesvara: From here. Tamala Krsna: Is it confirmed in Bhagavata? Prabhupada: First thing is that it is full of life. Full of very, very intelligent demigods. They have never gone. Tamala Krsna: If a devotee were to go to the moon, would he see all of these very intelligent demigods? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: Anyone would see them. (laughs) But nobody’s gone. Ramesvara: No, he would see the cities also. Tamala Krsna: So if someone actually went there, they would see all this life. It’s not that you have to have a special vision to see it. Prabhupada: But you have to qualify yourself. Tamala Krsna: To get there. But once getting there, I mean it’s plainly visible to the eyes. Ramesvara: Prabhupada gave the example that Arjuna, he was qualified, so that he went to Indraloka planet one time, and he saw with his eyes the cities, the palace of Indra. Tamala Krsna: Yes, he was tempted. Arjuna was tempted when he went to Indraloka. But he closed his eyes. Prabhupada: No, descriptions are there of Indraloka. The pavements with pearls. Tamala Krsna: Wow. Prabhupada: That is described, in the eighth chapter you’ll find, er, Eighth Canto. Ramesvara: In the Seventh Canto they described the palace of Indra, because Hiranyakasipu had lived there. How he was living there, and the walls of his palace are studded with jewels. There’s a nice description. What to speak of an ocean of milk, there’s so many things they cannot imagine. [break] (walking) Tamala Krsna: The buses, you know the windows, some of the windows are broken a little bit—you saw them. Do you think they will look good in the parade? It’s all right if the windows are not all… Prabhupada: Who is going to see? [break] Hrdayananda: Great American paintings. What they consider to be great American paintings. Hari-sauri: It’s an art exhibition. [break] Prabhupada: In London they have got such a nice… Ramesvara: You think one day, Prabhupada, maybe these big buildings will be our temples? Prabhupada: (laughs) No, our executive office. Tamala Krsna: Ramesvara will have his office here. Ramesvara: Look how interested they are in China. They have a collection of Chinese paintings. Prabhupada: Why not our paintings? [break] …were constructed? Tamala Krsna: I think around the turn of the century, Srila Prabhupada. Most of the big buildings like this here were constructed at that time. [break] Prabhupada: [break] …prohibited? Hari-sauri: In the park? Prabhupada: Yes, it is written there. Hari-sauri: Because they don’t want the park full of drunks. Ramesvara: The children, they don’t want them soliciting children or the children to drink anything. It’s to protect the children. Prabhupada: That means it is bad. Devotee: Yes. Ramesvara: They know it is bad, but they say that everyone has to make his own choice. Pusta Krsna: They know it is bad, but they like it. Prabhupada: Will these parents like that the children may have liberty to follow a dark path? Will the father like? Ramesvara: No. Prabhupada: Then why the government doesn’t…? Hari-sauri: They’re making too much revenue to stop selling it. Prabhupada: That is not good government. Pusta Krsna: The parents are bad also. Ramesvara: They put an age limit on it. They say you can only buy liquor when you have reached a certain age. Pusta Krsna: They want the children to be good, but the parents are bad. Prabhupada: Hmm? Pusta Krsna: They want the children to be good, but the parents are all bad. Ramesvara: I think you have to be eighteen years old. Prabhupada: Then you become bad. Pusta Krsna: Before you become bad. (laughter) Prabhupada: Very good philosophy. Eighteen years, you become bad. Pusta Krsna: All their culture of goodness is wasted. Ramesvara: Also there are these nightclubs, you have to be a certain age before you can go in. Prabhupada: “Afro-American Art.” What is this? Hrdayananda: I think it means art by American black persons. Ramesvara: Afro-American means people with dark-skinned bodies, they have painted these paintings. Hari-sauri: One of the big problems that you read about a lot now is how parents are confused about how to educate their children, because there are so many different standards, and they don’t know how their children will turn out anymore. Prabhupada: Here is our standard—to make him devotee. Hrdayananda: China. Ramesvara: These are Chinese art paintings. They are having a special exhibit of Chinese art. Prabhupada: Afro-American, why not Indo-American? Bali-mardana: There is an Indian exhibition at a different museum right now. This museum also has Indian exhibitions sometimes. Satsvarupa: One of the biggest art professors in this country saw our books recently, and he said he’s very interested in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that he thinks it’s a new kind of art that your devotees are painting. That’s also a school of art, and more and more it will be recognized. Ramesvara: Right now they have one big exhibit of photographs that the British took when they first came to India. Pusta Krsna: Where’s that? Ramesvara: It’s at the Asia House Gallery nearby. Ghanasyama: We have professors who buy the complete standing order series of the Bhagavatam —it’s because they like the artwork. And then they read the philosophy and like that too. But the art attracts them many times first. They very much like the purports of your writings, that it gives a living expression of the peoples of India other than just historical. Prabhupada: …books. Hrdayananda: They purchase books? Ghanasyama: Yes. They like it because it’s not dry, like many of the other books—the art and the very glorious philosophical presentation. Your works are more enlivening and more easy for the students to understand, especially undergraduate students. Hari-sauri: They appreciate that your books have got life. Tamala Krsna: I think we could have some of these up along in front of our building, advertising things within our temple. Ramesvara: These glass display cases. Tamala Krsna: These glass display cases, if we have these outside the front of our building, people will come in. Ramesvara: That’s how they attract people. [break] They are always trying to think how to paint the bodies to look transcendental or spiritual. So this art historian has said this is a new style of art. Tamala Krsna: He’s telling me that when he sells the books… (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
July 18, 1976, New York