Evening Darsana
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
January 23, 1977, Bhubaneswar

Prabhupada: He started this rajya hope: “We must have our own in hand.”(?) So he was a very big man, barrister. One, his friend, he was also brahmana. So he felt it, and he was taking daily Ganga-snana. So this, his friend, Mr. Bannerjee, he came to see him, that “You bring one doctor.” He refused: “No, I don’t want. I’ll drink this Ganges water.” So he never took any help from the brahmanas. But simply drinking Ganges water cured. And in the Srimad-Bhagavatam also it is stated, nartasya cagadam udanvati majjato nauh, tavad vibho tanu-bhrtam tvad-upeksitanam. A doctor medicine is not actually cure. Unless…. If somebody is neglected, denounced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, any amount of medicine or good physician will not be able to cure. Father, mother, is not the shelter of the children. The things are described in the Bhagavatam.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Bhagavad-gita also mentions that the mantram is also Lord Krsna Himself…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): …in some slokas.

Prabhupada: In another place, Bhagavatam, it is said, bhavausadhi. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhi chrotra-mano-’bhiramat [SB 10.1.4] So this Hare Krsna mantra is bhavausadhi. And one must have faith rigidly. Otherwise…. Krsna is the protector. In Bengali it is said, rakhe krsna mare ke mare krsna rakhe ke: “If Krsna wants to kill somebody, who can give him protection?” That faith we are losing at the present moment. We…. In India especially, we are born in a country where God descends as Lord Ramacandra, Lord Krsna, Lord Buddha, Caitanya. Now they are asking, “What is God?” So the whole culture has to be revived. And this is an attempt, humble attempt, to revive our old culture, Krsna consciousness. We should join together. To this purpose we are attempting to open a center here. And Mr. Pandiya, how long you are here in…?

Mr. Pandiya: I’m here for the last six months, sir.

Prabhupada: Oh. Before that, where you…?

Mr. Pandiya: Before that, I was at Berhampur.

Prabhupada: So my guess was right. By seeing your face I asked you as some member of…

Mr. Pandiya: That’s a terrific guess.

Prabhupada: Bharati Maharaja may be now about forty years? No. Little more.

Mr. Pandiya: Little more. I am now forty-nine, so he would be about four years younger.

Prabhupada: Four years younger. Yes. But his health is nice. He looks younger. So in this book the whole incident is described. I have given everything in the commentary.

Guest (1): Everything is described. Only the thing is that we should get the sense and do in our action. That is the whole thing. Our roots are India…

Guest (2) (Indian man): Sir, how to bathe also it is mentioned.

Guest (1): Just a minute. Also India, in our country, in the recent history of our country, we had many cultured peoples like Gandhi and Patel. But how these two men became great, not others? Because only by their actions.

Prabhupada: Our greatness in this country was considered on spiritual advancement.

Guest (2): Exactly. We Indian people, we know what is religion, not politics.

Prabhupada: No. Politics is there. Politics means formerly the brahmanas were the guide, teacher of the society, guide of the society. Brahminical culture. The brahmanas were not interested in politics. They would give advice to the ksatriyas, and the ksatriyas would administer. Brahmanas were not interested to take politics, from time immemorial, even during the time of Maharaja Prthu. Not that the ksatriyas were irresponsible, no. They were taking guidance from the learned brahmanas, saintly persons, and they were ruling over. Maharaja Yudhisthira was doing that. Maharaja Pariksit was doing that. Lord Ramacandra also.

Guest (2): During the present day, sir, to whom we will treat as brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya and sudra?

Prabhupada: That I was explaining. According to the symptom.

Guest (1): Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13].

Prabhupada: So actual…

Mr. Pandiya: Bratim(?) eva tu karanam.

Prabhupada: Yes. Unfortunately, at the present moment there is no brahmanas. Kalau sudra-sambhavah.

Guest (3) (Indian man): During Prataparudra’s time, his raja-guru was Kavi Jiya-devacarya (?).

Prabhupada: Yes. Every king.

Guest (3): And he was his preceptor and minister.

Prabhupada: The Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya also was…

Guest (3): (indistinct) to Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (3): He wrote Bhakti-bhagavata maha-kavya, and taking materials for Tenth Skandha of Bhagavata, the Bhagavata, he wrote a kavya called Bhakti-bhagavata Maha-kavya in thirty-two cantos, in the work only itself. When Prataparudra was on expedition to South, he wrote on the bank of the river Kaveri this Maha-kavya called Bhakti-bhagavatam, containing thirty-two cantos, each canto containing about two hundred slokas.

Prabhupada: Big work.

Guest (3): And recently we have taken up the editing of this manuscript from our…

Prabhupada: Oh. It was in manuscript.

Guest (3): Yes.

Prabhupada: The brahmanas were so learned at that time. Therefore brahmanas were addressed as Pandita. Panditaji. Still they’re addressed. Brahmanas were addressed as Pandita, ksatriyas were addressed as Thakura, vaisyas were addressed as Mahajana, and sudras were addressed as Chaudhuri. Yes, still. In northern India this is the etiquette.

Guest (1): But, sir, now these things are so complicated only the title indicates the caste.

Prabhupada: No, no. Nowadays it is topsy-turvied. There is no system, Kali-yuga.

Guest (2): Today somebody is a brahmana, tomorrow’s he’s ksatriya, and day after tomorrow he’s something else.

Prabhupada: Udaram bharata. Daksyam udaram bharata. Bas, Kali- yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are daksya. Daksyam udaram bharata. These symptoms are there in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one’s body and soul together, that udaram bharita is very expert. He’s maintaining. (laughs) Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya [SB 1.1.10]. All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America…. Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?

Satsvarupa: More than that.

Prabhupada: More than that. You were in the welfare department. What is the minimum?

Satsvarupa: It keeps going up. I think it’s more like forty, fifty dollars for one person.

Prabhupada: Forty means at the rate of nine rupees.

Guest (2): Nine-fifty.

Prabhupada: No, not fifty. Per week, yes.

Mr. Pandiya: In Western countries they give wages in terms of weeks.

Prabhupada: Yes, weekly.

Guest (1): So spiritually they are innocent, comparing with India. We have become complicated after passing through many cultural ups and downs.

Prabhupada: Yes. Due to these blind leaders. You see Bhagavad-gita.

Guest (2): But, sir, Gandhi told that “You read Gita.”

Prabhupada: He did not know himself. (laughs) That is the pity. He has spoken in this Gita lecture that “My imagination of Krsna is different from Bhagavad-gita.” A Krsna is a subject matter of imagination. Have you read his lecture on Gita?

Guest (1): Gita-pravacana.

Prabhupada: Eh? Gita-pra…, is Vinobha.

Guest (1): What students can do? In the topic of…, what students can do?

Prabhupada: You read Bhagavad-gita as it is. You read Bhagavad-gita as it is. Because Gandhi or Vinobha or Vivekananda or Aurobindo, they did not come in the parampara system. They have made themselves important by their own ideas. That we want to check. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is. You cannot make any amendment or correction in the Bhagavad-gita. But these people, unfortunately, they take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gita and give their own comment.

Mr. Pandiya: To suit their purposes.

Prabhupada: That’s all. This is the dangerous… And they are considered as big men, and people follow, and they are misled. Otherwise, in India, so much fallen condition due to these rascal leaders. That I am speaking repeatedly, although it may be very harsh. But we have to say that. Everyone has distorted. Gandhi says Kuruksetra, “this body.” Where is the chance of talking of “this body,” the Kuruksetra? Has he not?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupada: Where is the dictionary, “the body means Kuruksetra, and Kuruksetra means the body.”

Guest (1): He has told, karma-ksetra. Kuru-karma.

Prabhupada: So you can drag some meaning. That is another thing. But Kuruksetra is there still.

Mr. Pandiya: That is the Bhagavad-gita As It Is.

Guest (2): That is interpretation.

Prabhupada: That is interpretation. Interpretation… Here is a person in the legal way. Interpretation is required when you cannot understand. Is it not?

Guest (2): Interpretation…

Prabhupada: But when the things are understood very clearly, why interpretation?

Guest (2): It will, rather, confuse.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (2): Suppose I will drag this meaning…

Prabhupada: This was protested by Caitanya Mahaprabhu vigorously. Why should you interpret?

Guest (4) (Indian man): Yes. He told, the Srimad Bhagavatam is the ultimate bhasya of prasthana code, Vedanta-sutra.

Prabhupada: Yes. No, anything, if you can understand very clearly, where is the question of interpretation? But it has become a fashion that “If I can interpret in my own way, I become a big scholar.” This is going on. If you have got your philosophy, you can speak. Everyone is free. Why you should take Bhagavad-gita and distort it? Krsna never meant that “In future Gandhi will come,” or “Dr. Radhakrishnan will come, and he will explain My ideas.” What is this nonsense? Krsna was a foolish person that he left it for Gandhi for distortion? He could not explain Himself that Kuruksetra means this body? Gandhi has to interpret? Do you think it is right?

Guest (5) (Indian man): Not at all.

Prabhupada: But this is going on. What right you have got to interpret? If Kuruksetra means body, Krsna would have explained that. Was He not learned? He left it for Gandhi. Just see. He left it for Tilak. How harmful these interpretations are. That is going on. (end)