Room Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
February 16, 1977, Mayapura

Prabhupada:etad anyatha ajnanam. Find out Bhagavad-gita. This is knowledge. All other things are bogus. Otherwise how could I convince big, big scientists? They are not ordinary men, Doctor, that Svarupa Damodara, one of the first-class scientists. He has got very good degree from Calcutta University, from other university, M.A.C. and other. He is very intelligent boy. He studies science very particularly, means sound knowledge. How he’s attached?

Jayapataka: This is real knowledge.

Prabhupada: This is real knowledge. Hm.

Pradyumna: Whole thing read or just that, amanitvam adambhitvam?

Prabhupada: Hm.

Pradyumna:

amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantir arjavam acaryopasanam saucam sthairyam atma-vinigrahah

indriyarthesu vairagyam anahankara eva ca janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam

asaktir anabhisvangah putra-dara-grhadisu nityam ca sama-cittatvam istanistopapattisu

mayi cananya-yogena bhaktir avyabhicarini vivikta-desa-sevitvam… [Bg. 13.11]

Prabhupada: Mayi ca. Simply this qualification will not help. Mayi ca bhaktir avyabhicarini. When it is added with bhakti, then it is perfect. Mayi ca avyabhicarini. That ca. Ca means “Without this, these are useless.” Ca. You must add bhakti also, avyabhicarini-bhakti, unflinching faith in devotional service. Mayi ca avyabhicarini-bhakti…

Pradyumna: Mayi ca ananya-yogena bhaktih…

Prabhupada: Ananya-yoga, ananya-bhakti, pure.

Pradyumna: Ah, vivikta.

Prabhupada: Vivikta…

Pradyumna: Vivikta-desa-sevitvam aratir jana-samsadi [Bg. 13.11]

Prabhupada: Hm. Not to mix with ordinary men, aratir jana, general public. Just like this, our place—only devotion. This is vivikta, aloof from this world. We have no other business except Krsna consc…, bhakti. And aratir jana-samsadi, no, mean, association with ordinary person, no association. We can go and talk of some…, for our own benefit or Krsna. Otherwise we have no business with them. Noncooperation. We go to the public for preaching, not to associate with them. To give them association, so they may be benefited. Either he may be prime minister or this or that, we have no business with them. But for our purpose we go. Big, big karmis, life member. So we have no personal concern, but for their benefit we go there. Their hard-earned money, if something is spent for this purpose, he’ll be benefited. This is our… Otherwise we have no business with them. Aratir jana-samsadi. Then?

Pradyumna:

adhyatma-jnana-nityatvam tattva-jnanartha-darsanam etaj jnanam…

Prabhupada: Etaj jnanam: these are knowledge. This is education. Then?

Pradyumna: Ajnanam yad ato ’nyatha.

Prabhupada: Anything apart from this, they’re all rascaldom. Bas. That is again confirmed by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Vidya-madhye krsna… What is that?

Satsvarupa: Kon vidya vidya-madhye sara, raya kahe—krsna-bhakti vina vidya nahi ara.

Prabhupada: Ara. So these things will be accepted by krsna-bhakta, etaj jnanam. So whatever Krsna has said, that is knowledge, vidya. Everything nonsense. Therefore so boldly we say, “All rascaldom.” Never mind. That’s a fact. That is a fact. Anyone… Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah. Anyone who is not devotee of Krsna, bhagavad-bhakta—useless. Jada-bidya jato mayara vaibhava, jibake karaye gadha. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said. By this so-called material education, one is already gadha, go-khara, dehatma-buddhi, and he becomes still more, another staunch gadha. Now, if you speak the straight truth they’ll be angry. Murkhayopadeso hi. But this is fact.

Jayapataka: You can speak, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: I speak. I said in Melbourne, “United Nations is association of barking dogs.”

Jayapataka: You have that expert quality.

Prabhupada: Yes. I cannot check myself.

Pradyumna: You say that. You get so angry at seeing it, you…

Prabhupada: (laughs) Krodha bhakta-dvesi-jane. That is Narottama Thakura’s instruction. You must be very angry, those who are against God and devotee, very angry. Utilize your anger for them. Krodha bhakta-dvesi-jane. That anger is service. Krsna-seba kamarpane. For Krsna’s service one should be mad. Kama-krodha should be given up, but a bhakta does not give up. Utilize it. A bhakta should be very much for kamut(?) serving Krsna. And he must utilize his anger for the bhakta-dvesi, those who are not devotee. Krsna-seba kamarpane krodha bhakta-dvesi-jane. We have nothing to give up like Mayavadi. Kama, krodha, lobha, moha, matsarya. Matsarya may… That has to be… A bhakta cannot be envious. If a bhakta is angry upon them, that is not envious. That is for good. A bhakta should not be envious. Otherwise how he can preach? He’s merciful. Even if he’s angry, it is mercy. Therefore this matsarya has no use for bhakta. Other things, they have use, kama, krodha, lobha, moha, not matsarya. Matsarya is very bad.

Satsvarupa: Envy?

Prabhupada: Envy, yes. So Panihati is hopeful, is not…

Jayapataka: Yes. If this MLA actually pushes it through, then in one month…

Prabhupada: In that MLA that gentleman is very intelligent.

Jayapataka: Yes.

Prabhupada: Young man.

Jayapataka: He’s ambitious. Ambitious.

Prabhupada: Ambitious for Krsna, everyone should be ambitious: “How I shall become a great devotee?” That is very good. Yes. Again finger problem. (laughs) So electric is not working? Just see. In the evening, we…, people want light. No light.

Jayapataka: It works the whole day. Only in the evening it goes off.

Prabhupada: Whole night also. Only evening, when you require it… (laughter) India’s material advancement is artificial. They are not fit for it. In America, so long, no electricity every day? People would become mad. There would have been a revolution. Huh? Is it not?

Hari-sauri: Yes. They had a blackout in New York once for an hour or so.

Prabhupada: Yes, I know that. I was that time.

Hari-sauri: Oh, you were there.

Prabhupada: Not hour. It was four hours. And fortunately I was not out on the street. I was in my place. That accident took place just after few days of my arrival, 1965. One gentleman, he, I know, he brought me some candle. I had no candle even. Simply I was sitting in darkness. What can be done? But Krsna sent him with some candle. Yes. (chuckling)

Hari-sauri: Nine months after that incident they had a record number of births…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hari-sauri: …in New York.

Prabhupada: What can they do in darkness? (laughter) That is the only engagement in darkness.

Jayapataka: They could have chanted Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: No… Even Hare Krsna people. Naviviktasano bhavet, matra svasra duhitra va. It is strictly forbidden: “You should not sit alone even with your mother, sister or daughter, what to speak of wife.” Balavan indriya-gramo vidvamsam api karsati: “The senses are so strong, even learned persons, advanced, they also become victimized.” Balavan indriya-gramah. Balavan means very strong. When the… It is forbidden even with mother, sister or…, and daughter. That is the only capturing instrument in the material world. Maithunyam agara, prison house of sex, this material world. It is a prison house, but locked up by sex. The ordinary prison house, they are locked up by guards, and here the locking process is sex. Maithunyam agara. The words are selected in Bhagavata. They are thinking free. (laughs) They are imprisoned, locked up. And everyone falsely thinking, “I am free. Our nation is free. I am free.” What nonsense free? You are locked up already. That he does not… Now this word is used, maithunyam agaram ajnah. He has preferred to remain in this prison locked up by sex because he is rascal. Maithunyam agaram ajnah.

Pradyumna: Where is that, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: In the… Find out, Fifth, Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Bhagavata is the only guide. Read Bhagavata, repeatedly whole life. Safe. Always. Always, whenever there is time, read, read, read.

anarthopasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje lokasyajanato vidvams cakre satvata-samhitam

Vyasadeva has done this satvata-samhita. Anartha. To live in this material world is anartha, unnecessary. Hm? You have got it?

Pradyumna:

yada na pasyaty ayatha guneham svarthe pramattah sahasa vipascit gata-smrtir vindati tatra tapan asadya maithunyam agaram ajnah

Prabhupada: Ajnah.

Jayapataka: Which verse?

Pradyumna: It’s Canto Five, Chapter Five, verse number seven. “Even though one may be very learned and wise, he is mad if he does not understand that the endeavor for sense gratification is a useless waste of time. Being forgetful of his own interest, he tries to be happy in the material world, centering his interests around his home, which is based on sexual intercourse and which brings him all kinds of material miseries. In this way one is no better than a foolish animal.”

Prabhupada: Yes. Maithunyam agaram ajnah. The selection of words in Bhagavata are, from even literary point of view, perfect. Padam padam yad vipadam na tesam. Bhavambudhir vatsa-padam param padam padam padam yad vipadam na… This is literary. Samasrita ye pada-pallava-plavam. Again plavam plavam. Anuprasa. This is literary, anuprasa. Samasrita ye pada-pallava-plavam mahat-padam punya-yaso murareh. Padam. Bhavambudhir vatsa-padam param padam padam padam yad vipadam na tesam. Just see literary arrangement. And full of meaning. This is Bhagavatam. Any way you study, from literary point of view, from knowledge, from philosophy, from social, every—perfect. Therefore lokasya ajanato vidvams cakre. Vidvan. One who has learned, Vyasadeva, vidvan, the first- class learned person. The satvata-samhitam—for the devotees, Vedic cream. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitam phalam idam [SB 1.1.3]. Nobody can be like Vyasadeva; He’s incarnation of Narayana. Where is such scholar throughout the whole world? Is there?

Hari-sauri: That man from Delhi said that he thought you were an incarnation of Vyasadeva.

Prabhupada: Yes. Any devotee in literary career, he is to be understood… Just like our Vrndavana dasa Thakura. He is described as incarnation of Vyasadeva because Vyasadeva wrote Bhagavatam and he wrote Caitanya-bhagavata.

Pradyumna: Vyasa-puja.

Prabhupada: Vyasa-puja. Vyasa-prasadam. Unless one is blessed by Vyasadeva, he cannot write transcendental literature. So now you have very good cook. Kirtana is going on. It is Vaikuntha. Maintain this status very nicely. You can. You are… From the very beginning you are… Do it very nicely. Tatra tisthami narada yatra gayanti mad-bhaktah. If devotees chant always, that is Krsna or Vaikuntha. Tatra tistha… Tatra tisthami. Yatra gayanti mad-bhaktah. They must be pure devotee and always talk about Krsna, chant about Krsna. Then it is Vaikuntha. What about this generator? Is it going to work or not?

Jayapataka: I’m not sure. I don’t know who was working on that today. I just got back myself. There was some… They’re hooking up, I think, the wires.

Prabhupada: It must work. Otherwise…

Jayapataka: Oh, it’s guaranteed it will work. The electric supply officer was on a three-day leave, I heard. Therefore he couldn’t make the…

Prabhupada: Connection.

Jayapataka: …connection.

Prabhupada: So be after him. Do it. This is the first business. In Vrndavana we have got very good generator. As soon as stops, within a minute we can start generator, very nice.

Jayapataka: This is the same make.

Prabhupada: Kirloskar.

Jayapataka: Yes, only bigger size.

Prabhupada: That’s nice. It is now recognized machine, Kirloskar. Kirloskar, Kirloskar. A Maharathi gentleman. (end)