Room Conversation Prabhupada: Now you have to do so many things. (laughs) Yes. Another burden. You have to do all these things. So how your preaching? Giriraja: Very good. Haridasa had gone to Poona, and in two days he made four life members, and he was getting a chance to meet some big people, so he asked me to come. It was very nice. I met one young man, about thirty years old. He’s one of the nicest men I’ve met in a long time. He really agreed with everything we were saying, and he’s… Prabhupada: Sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih. Giriraja: Well, he agreed that the modern civilization is a failure and that people are not happy, that people were more happy before. Prabhupada: It is a dangerous civilization. You… You should… (pause) Dangerous civilization that labdhva su-durlabham idam bahu-sambhavante. After many, many millions of years one gets the chance of becoming a human being, especially civilized and especially in India. They will bring the same. And Krsna personally says that if this chance is missed and a person does not become God realized, then he again returns back to the…, to the… Today I am a prime minister. Tomorrow, if I become a dog… What is this civilization? And they will have to become. Nature’s law we cannot avoid. And there is no question, “Why you are touching me? I am prime minister.” Who cares for you? You have to take account of your activities, karmana daiva-netrena. So human life is so important, and we are simply wasting this valuable life with this temporary adjustment of so-called happiness or distress, big, big plans. Simply bluffing. Indira Gandhi, one daridranam hata(?): “Poverty drive away.” Now she is poverty-stricken. “Oh, you want to drive away poverty? Now drive away your own poverty. Where is your position? How you can drive away? You do not dare to come out.” Twelve nights. Within one day. Who has made this? This is possible for everyone. Why do they not care, this important knowledge? This knowledge is India’s knowledge, and India government is callous. They are not interested in distributing this knowledge. Sarasvati jnana-khale yatha sati. Just like a person who has got enough knowledge, but he does not give it to others, it is to check the flame. Such a risky civilization… The knowledge is there, and people are kept in darkness. What is this? Tatha dehantara-praptih. So we are the only friends, within this world, of the human society. Giriraja: That’s true. It’s a fact. Prabhupada: This should be recognized. And sober men, leaders, they should come forward. And India’s, this vast knowledge will be… That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission. Giriraja: Yes. Prabhupada: Paropakara. They have got this opportunity how to get out of this entanglement of being covered by the material body, and they are not being given the chance. And we are giving the chance so easy. Ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni… [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Bhava-maha-davagni, the same thing. Bhava-maha-davagni. This repetition of birth and death, it is the blazing fire of material existence. So when one understands that “What is my position?” then he’ll do this, ceto-darpana-marjanam, clear understanding, “Oh…” What is this nonsense nationality? Today I am Indian; tomorrow I am a dog. Where is my nation? Where is my family? Where is my father? Where is my mother? So to become mad after these things is my business, or to get out of this material entanglement is my business? And we have got so much facilities. Krsna is instructing, Himself. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is teaching personally how to live. And we are not taking advantage? What a suicidal policy. And they are becoming leader, Jayapataka Narayan and this… What is that? Tamala Krsna: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Prabhupada: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Morarji Desai, Indira Gandhi, and… What they’ll do? Churchill and this and Napoleon, Hitler. Simply misguiding, whole history. Simply mis… They are rascals. They do not know what is what, and they lead. Gandhi… All rascals. Vivekananda and Sai Baba, this, that, so many… They should be stopped. That is real philanthropic activities. Where is…? Now we are going to show this planetarium. These rascal scientists: “All desert. All rocks and desert.” Simply this planet, for his father’s property. This is now happening. “The moon planet is a desert.” And from the desert such brilliant light is coming that is illuminating at night the whole universe. And we have to believe it because they are spoken by scientists. You see? All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, they are leading. And our determination is to stop these rascals. That is our… It is not that “Let the rascals go on with their… Let us make our salvation.” Prahlada Maharaja said, “No, no, no, I don’t want. I don’t want. If there is salvation, I must take them also.” This is Vaisnava. “I don’t want such salvation for my personal…” This is Vaisnava, para-duhkha-duhkhi. Para-duhkha-duhkhi krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye. Naturally a Vaisnava will be unhappy. Soce tato vimukha-cetasa indriyartha-maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [SB 7.9.43]. You know this verse? So we must know that these so-called leaders… Just see. He could not do it nicely. Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Prabhupada: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they’re all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he’s a rascal. You must know that “I am talking with a rascal number one.” So I… He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore said, ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake dubaya. Sometimes by punya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas(?). Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on. Krsna says. Nivartante mrtyu-samsara-vartmani. Mrtyu-samsara-vartmani, botheration. Then there is… We have got this… Any intelligent person gets the Bhagavad-gita. The rascals are reading Bhagavad-gita, do not understand a line even. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20] They do not question even. And after the destruction, body, I am not annihilated. Then where I am going? What is my next life? Na jayate na mriyate va. He does not die. The body is changed. Vasamsi jirnani yatha vihaya [Bg. 2.22]. So everything is clearly said. They do not inquire even that “After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?” Answer is there. Karanam guna-sango ’sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Everything there. And they are reading Bhagavad-gita. Gandhi’s reading Bhagavad-gita. Tilak is reading Bhagavad-gita. Where is their knowledge of Bhagavad-gita? And misleading all, writing commentary, “Bhagavad-gita means nationalism, nonviolence,” protesting that “If Krsna is fighting, I don’t want that Krsna, even I am extricated from the Hindu society.” Gandhi has said. Bhagavad-gita should be according to his whims. If you can change the verdict of Bhagavad-gita, then why you take Bhagavad-gita? Is that authority? If you…, government gives you some law. If you say, “No, no, I don’t like this item. I… It should be like this,” then is that law, that “I’ll take Bhagavad-gita…”? All these rascals are doing that. The Cinmayananda, they are now: “I’ll change according to my whims.” Then where is the authority? If I say that “Giriraja, you go there, to the bank,” “No, no, I cannot do this. I can do only this,” then where is my authority? (laughs) Just see. These rascals are doing that. We are therefore presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is, no change. We do not change. Anybody seriously reading our book, he’ll be liberated. There is no doubt. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. That’s a fact. If not all books, simply Krsna book, if one reads carefully, daily, he is liberated undoubtedly. So how many members you have made? Giriraja: Well, altogether we made nine members. And then this one young man is going to donate for one of the parts of the building. Prabhupada: Hm? Giriraja: I met one young man, and he may donate for one of the rooms fifty thousand. Otherwise he’ll donate for some…, either twenty-five thousand or, minimum, eleven thousand. Then a lot of people wanted to arrange our speaking engagements at Rotary Club, Lions Club and different associations, so we’re arranging towards the end of May to go back again and have a…, maybe a week, every night, different program. Prabhupada: Very good. Poona is not far away. Giriraja: Oh, no. It’s two or three hours. Prabhupada: By train. So it is nice place, educated. Giriraja: One… There’s a very big military concentration, so this time we didn’t meet any of the military leaders, but I think next time we can arrange a big program there. It’s the whole headquarters for, I think, central India or… Prabhupada: Which… It is… Very much. One program is clear. I think our this Cross Maidan pandal has given the people study. Giriraja: Yes. Prabhupada: Bombay people. Giriraja: When we meet people, they comment about it. Prabhupada: What do they say? Giriraja: That “You had a very big program, and…” They know the theme also. They say, “Yes, the theme was modern civilization, and it failed, and the only solution is Krsna consciousness.” And then, having so many leading people praise your work… Tamala Krsna: Actually a letter came yesterday, I think, from the chief minister. I haven’t opened it yet. Shall I bring it? Prabhupada: (aside:) Fan. Upendra: (bringing garlands) This one was made by a little girl. The boy who fixed the buzzers, his little daughter made. Prabhupada: This is our flower? Hm? Get all round, flower, the first land vacant. You should plant them. Punyo gandhah prthivyam ca. Upendra: Parampara malas. There’s five malas here for the parampara. Prabhupada: First of all hear. Then tomorrow they… Krsna is helping. He’ll help more, more. We are not going to be misled by their leadership. Giriraja: No. They have nothing to say. Actually, the way you’ve trained us is very good, that you always present their arguments and then how to defeat them or what is the defect, so when we go out for preaching, we’re not baffled by their arguments. Prabhupada: That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s policy. Let the rascal Sarvabhauma speak first of all. Let his talk be finished. Hear silently. And then reply. He’ll hear. Giriraja: I found, at least in the business community, there are many mudhas. Prabhupada: Mood? Ah, mudhas, yes. Giriraja: Their philosophy is to work hard and die. Prabhupada: That hog philosophy, which is forbidden. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman [Bhag. 5.5.1]. Why? Why you should work so hard? That I said, that Daily Messenger, in the pandal, hanging… Giriraja: They say that by opening factories they are giving work to so many people. So they cannot also lead the same… Tamala Krsna: (reading letter) “The Chief Minister’s Secretariat, Government of Maharastra, Saciwalya.” Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: It’s not a very long note. It’s signed by the Undersecretary. It says, “Dear Sir, I am desired to acknowledge with thanks receipt of your letter dated the 3rd April, 1977. Yours faithfully, Undersecretary.” You sent him a very personal letter. I think he should have… He may be a little bit depressed at this time due to having to leave office. Prabhupada: That was his dilemma. If he said, “No, we cannot cooperate or join this…” I asked, letter? Tamala Krsna: Yes. Prabhupada: And he was condemned. Officially he cannot make statement. Tamala Krsna: Hm? Prabhupada: Officially he cannot write that “I should join.” Then it becomes a great certificate. We don’t mind. Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada wrote him a very personal, strong letter. Prabhupada: Where is that copy? Tamala Krsna: I have it here. Giriraja: I met Mr. Rajda yesterday, and I invited him here for prasadam, so he said day after tomorrow. Prabhupada: Day after tomorrow means? Giriraja: Fifteenth. The l5th. Prabhupada: What? Giriraja: Friday. Prabhupada: Friday. Giriraja: And today the other M.P. should be coming back from Delhi. So if you like… Prabhupada: Invite all of them. Giriraja: I can invite all of them. They’re four very important M.P.’s, and they can all come. So if you take rest from one to two, then you can meet them at two. Prabhupada: Hm? Giriraja: You take rest usually from…, up to two o’clock? Prabhupada: No, up to three. Giriraja: Oh, up to three? Tamala Krsna: So “The Honorable S.D. Chawan, Chief Minister of Maharastra. Dear Sri Chawan, kindly accept my greetings and extend the same to your good wife. I am so much obliged to you that you have lauded our activities throughout the world. This Krsna consciousness movement is based on deep science of the laws of nature. This human life is a boon for the conditioned soul to understand this science. I do not wish to take much of your valuable time, but I would have been very much pleased that persons like you, without any political prejudice, come and take up his movement seriously and benefit the whole human society with this knowledge. At least in India, where this knowledge was generated, there must be some institution to know it perfectly and distribute it throughout the world. That will glorify India’s prestige. To broadcast India’s glorification is the duty of every Indian without any political differences. I wish that you may take some active part in this movement and thus magnify the prestigious position of India. Thank you very much for your coming here today and speaking so nicely about this Krsna consciousness movement. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.” Giriraja: Nice letter. Prabhupada: So yes, no, he… Tamala Krsna: He couldn’t say yes, and he couldn’t say no. Prabhupada: Position is tottering. Tamala Krsna: You have invited some members of the Parliament? Giriraja: So when would it be convenient for you? Because we can adjust their activities according to when you’ll be free. Prabhupada: Four. Tamala Krsna: Four is the nicest time for Prabhupada. Prabhupada: I don’t think the… Better arrange according to their convenience. Giriraja: Well, I could try to arrange at four, but then they won’t take prasadam. Prabhupada: No, no. No, give them prasadam. Make at noon sumptuous prasadam. Tamala Krsna: At nighttime they would take? Giriraja: Well, they take at 8:30 at night. Prabhupada: Hm? Giriraja: They never take before… Tamala Krsna: So, I mean, you would see them in the evening? Prabhupada: No, no, I’ll see them according to their… Giriraja: (aside:) Well, I asked Mr. Rajda. I told him, “Our guru time is seven, would be best…” You know, noontime, two days later… Tamala Krsna: Noontime, after your bath? But then that’s not… Prabhupada: No, my bath I take twelve o’clock. At that time how they will come here? Tamala Krsna: They said that it’s convenient. Giriraja: Well, say… What I had arranged was that he would come here, reach here at about one. So I had thought that you rested from about… Prabhupada: Yes. Giriraja: …12:30 to two. So I thought we could keep him busy until two. Otherwise, if you want, he can come straight away at one to meet you, and then, after that, you could take rest, and then we could give him prasadam and show him… Tamala Krsna: In other words, you could either meet him after taking your prasadam at noon but before taking rest, or you could meet him… Prabhupada: My prasadam-taking is now very important, because I do not take. So I can talk anytime. Tamala Krsna: Would you like to talk before resting or after, Srila Prabhupada, ’cause to him it’s the same. So it’s up to you. Prabhupada: No, no, I said according to their convenience… Giriraja: Okay, what I would say is that let them meet you first of all… Prabhupada: Hm, yes. Giriraja: …at about one o’clock. Prabhupada: That’s nice. Giriraja: Then, say, after twenty minutes or so, you can be free. And then we will give them prasadam… Prabhupada: That’s nice. Giriraja: …and show movie and… Prabhupada: Make that. Tamala Krsna: What date? Giriraja: Day after tomorrow. Tamala Krsna: Very good. Prabhupada: I am sitting here whole day and night, so they will come according… They are busy men. They must have program according to their convenience. Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, this is the checks. The amount remaining in the bank is 371 rupees and 19 paisa. Should I make out the check? Prabhupada: Why check? There is standing visa(?). Check, they will come. Tamala Krsna: Well, the reason why we need the check is that this letter is only signed by Your Divine Grace, but this check is signed by the joint signers, Syamasundara and… Prabhupada: Then inquire. What is the…? Tamala Krsna: I think one check should be written out for those… Prabhupada: Pay to yourself. That’s all. Tamala Krsna: Yeah, pay to self. Prabhupada: Pay to your… No. Giriraja: Self. Tamala Krsna: “Pay to self,” yeah. Should I make the check out? Prabhupada: Hm. Giriraja: At Mr. Rajda’s office the ex-mayor was there. One of the ex-mayors of Bombay was there. He was the chief guest here on Vyasa-puja day two years ago. So he had recently visited our New York center, and he liked it very much, New York and Washington, D.C. Prabhupada: He’s impressed. He told Mr. Rajda? He informed Mr. Rajda? Giriraja: Um, not… No, he didn’t, not when I was there. But I am sure they had talked. I mean, people are very aware of our movement, at least superficially, that we are building something, we’re doing some… One weekly newspaper editor… Tamala Krsna: I think I’m going to write… If you leave me a tiny bit of room, I’ll write “For International Society for Krishna Consciousness Building Fund” just above. Prabhupada: Write there. Tamala Krsna: Okay. Prabhupada: Hm? Giriraja: He’s asked us to have a column in his newspaper every week for questions or answers, so that the readers can send their questions and then we will give our answer. He will pay. He wants to make a regular weekly feature. It’s called The Bombay Times. Prabhupada: Newly started? Giriraja: I don’t know how old it is, but now they’re making a big push to make it popular. Prabhupada: At least one day or two day in a week important men may come here, live here. You hold meeting in that auditorium. Giriraja: Yes. Prabhupada: Make friends with them about real knowledge. Giriraja: And then Mr. Bajaj… Mr. Bajaj was on the same plane going to Poona. Prabhupada: Oh. Giriraja: So he wants to arrange another meeting of the Gita Conference. So he’s thinking of either Kuruksetra or Vrndavana. So I suggested that they should hold it at our Krsna-Balarama. So he’s seriously thinking of it. But he’s not very much intelligent. I mean, he’s not able to understand the Bhagavad-gita. Prabhupada: They are influenced by these rascals, Vinod Bhave and company. Giriraja: Actually he has no idea what the Bhagavad-gita says. Prabhupada: What he has done? Giriraja: Who? Bajaj? Prabhupada: No, this Vinod Bhave? Giriraja: None of them has done anything. Tamala Krsna: Training up some women. Prabhupada: No, he’s still present. Eight dozens of women, they are residing somewhere. Tamala Krsna: Training up women for walking around India. Foot race. Giriraja: In Poona we met one man who was really glorifying you like anything. His name is Dilip Kumar Roy. Prabhupada: Oh. Giriraja: He was a famous singer, and his father was also… So now he has become something like a guru. And he has a temple in Poona called the Hare Krishna Temple. And the main Deity is Radha-Krsna. Of course, he’s bogus, more or less, but he… One thing is he was just praising you for hours almost, in front of all of his disciples. Prabhupada: How old is he? As old as I am? Giriraja: He is seventy-five. He was saying that… He’s written some sentimental books about Krsna and Krsna’s flute and this and that. But anyway, he was just saying that he couldn’t imagine how you could do so much. You know, he said, unless you were empowered by God, you could not have done this. He said with great difficulty he had published one book in America, and you’d published so many books, sales, and making devotees, and establishing centers. He wasn’t feeling well, but he said he would really like to come here and offer… Prabhupada: Bombay? Giriraja: …his obeisances. Prabhupada: Why not invite them? And immediately you should have invited him. Giriraja: No, yes, I did. Prabhupada: So you can stay there. We have a good place. Giriraja: He sent… I didn’t bring them with me. He sent two of his books with a message, and he said that he wanted your blessing. Tamala Krsna: When you give them to me, we can write him a letter inviting him to come, thanking him for the books. Srila Prabhupada, this telegram arrived. Remember that letter from Mahamsa requesting 75,000 rupees for his farming? So we’ve replied him. The letter’s going to be given to you today for signing. First of all agree to the principle of the loan, then I’ll give you… So a telegram arrived. “Please expedite letter dated 9/4/77.” Prabhupada: So do it. Tamala Krsna: So still we should send him that letter. Okay. I think… I mean, there has to be a principle of loan. Otherwise… Apart from that, there wasn’t any… (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
April 13, 1977, Bombay