Room Conversation Tamala Krsna: …book sales and sells twelve to fifteen thousand rupees a month. It’s very nice to see these foreign people coming to Vrndavana, having read your books, coming here. It’s like a perfect fulfillment of your books. They’re so much impressed with the subject matter that they want to see this Vrndavana. Especially they have read Krsna book. To them Vrndavana is like a magical world. Prabhupada: Hindi book is selling nice. Tamala Krsna: Hm-hm. He said so. Prabhupada: Four hundred, five hundred—no joke. Tamala Krsna: No, no joke. That Bengali Back to Godhead is very good also. This one has come out very nice, the layout and everything. It’s very good. Prabhupada: He writes nice. Tamala Krsna: Bhakti-caru? Prabhupada: No, who has written? Tamala Krsna: Who wrote those articles? Bhavananda: Bhakti-caru and… Bhakti-caru, Sarvabhavana. Tamala Krsna: Sarvabhavana and Bhakti-caru. Bhakti-caru is very literary, poetic type. Bhavananda: Visala said… I was asking him last night. He said that the most difficult people for selling books to are the Bengalis when they come. They’re the most difficult. But everyone else, they are more receptive. Prabhupada: And Gitar Gan is taken, everyone who comes. Tamala Krsna: To Mayapura. Prabhupada: Hm. That babaji was telling. Tamala Krsna: Oh, Babaji, Krsna dasa. Prabhupada: He said that “In everyone’s hand I see Gitar Gan.” Bhavananda: Yes. (laughs) That’s true. They take Gitar Gan and a Bhagavata Darsana. Satadhanya: And they’re anxious for the next issue. Prabhupada: They have already published twenty thousand. Tamala Krsna: Twenty thousand. Very good sale. Good scope in Bengal. Prabhupada: Hm. Everywhere. Two hundred men already subscribed. If we increase subscribers, many, many… Tamala Krsna: You like that idea? Prabhupada: Why not? Tamala Krsna: When the boys are going village to village, if they get subscriptions, it’s good? Prabhupada: Very good. Tamala Krsna: Hm. That’s a nice program. Anybody can afford it. What is a yearly subscription to the Bhagavata Darsana? Bhavananda: Only one problem with Bhagavata subscription is theft in the mail. It’s very difficult to get it, for it to reach its destination. Prabhupada: No, they make contact. For twelve rupees they’ll get twelve copies. Bhavananda: When they contact. Prabhupada: Yes. Bhavananda: That’s good idea. Tamala Krsna: You mean they have to come and collect. Bhavananda: Yes. They come to the temple few times a year, once a year. They’ll get their copies and go. Tamala Krsna: Then you have to keep them set aside with the person’s name on it? That’s not so hard. Just stick the person’s name on it. Bhavananda: Or if someone’s going on traveling sankirtana in that area, ’cause we always know where they’re going, they can take and deliver if they’re going near. No problem. But the magazine is so attractive that the postal clerks, they cannot resist taking it home to their family. (laughs) Prabhupada: You can get advertisement. But we don’t want it. Tamala Krsna: I don’t think…. It diminishes the prestige of the publication. By Krsna’s grace we have no shortage of money. Prabhupada: (laughs) Have it. So we shall construct a Yoga-pitha Bhaktivedanta Hall. Tamala Krsna: Hm. Yoga-pitha Bhaktivedanta Hall. Bhavananda: Oh! Prabhupada: And we have a bookstall there. Make it like that. Bhavananda: Oh, yes. Prabhupada: For the last fifty years they could not… Bhavananda: Make. Prabhupada: Yes. Bhavananda: Very nice. Tamala Krsna: What is the idea of that? Prabhupada: They have no shade. What is called? Darsana-mandapa. Tamala Krsna: I don’t understand. Bhavananda: At the yoga-pitha… Prabhupada: At yoga-pitha. Bhavananda: …when people come for darsana there’s no covered area for them. They’ve been trying to construct for years and years. They’ve never been able to do. So you have to stand out. If it’s raining, what do you do? There’s no shelter. Tamala Krsna: Yeah, that’s right. There’s nothing there. Prabhupada: And Sridhara Maharaja could not finish. He has spent five, ten thousand, I think. Finished. In this way we shall serve Gauda-mandala-bhu… And the interest will come to charity. What is the interest of ten and a half lakhs? Tamala Krsna: It’s, every month… One of the… One of the interests for the five lakhs is 4,166 rupees, and the other is 4,666. So that’s 8,800 say, times ten is 88,800, plus another sixteen. So about one lakh, five thousand per year. Prabhupada: That means twelve thousand. Tamala Krsna: Per month you mean? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: Oh, per month, it would be about nine thousand rupees a month. Prabhupada: No, more. Tamala Krsna: No, Srila Prabhupada. One lakh, five thousand, divided by twelve—a little less than ten thousand a month. Prabhupada: So you can pay that ten thousand month? Huh? Bhavananda? Bhavananda: Yes. Oh, yes. Prabhupada: Do it very conscientiously. Tamala Krsna: Yes. We’ll begin with… We’ll already have one lakh. So the first year we’ve already got, to begin with, one lakh of rupees. If you like that idea, to begin with that. Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Whenever there is money, spend it. Is that idea all right? Bhavananda: Yes. I always am for spending money for projects for Your Divine Grace. I especially like this idea of Yoga-pitha Bhaktivedanta Hall. Very nice. Isn’t it, Tamala? Tamala Krsna: Hm. Yes. It’s very nice idea because people come to Mayapura, they don’t only go to our ISKCON temple. Even when they go to other temples, they should have a good impression of Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s movement. Prabhupada: Pranair arthair dhiya vaca: “Life, money, intelligence, and words.” So I am old man. My life has no value. You young men, utilize your… Tamala Krsna: We may have life, but you have all intelligence, Srila Prabhupada. So life without intelligence… Prabhupada: Everyone has got intelligence—more or less, that’s all. Tamala Krsna: Well, you have complete, and we have practically none. Prabhupada: No… Bhavananda: We have no spiritual intelligence. Prabhupada: Complete knowledge—Krsna. Aisvaryasya samagrasya. Complete knowledge can be claimed by Krsna, even not by Narayana. Janmady asya yatah [Bhag. 1.1.1]. Everything is coming. Vedaham. What is that verse? Vedaham sarvani mam ca veda na kascana? The kaviraja went to Pagal Baba? He has praised me very much. Tamala Krsna: Really? Hm. I think everyone praises you, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: That is very difficult. You have all taken meals? Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. While we were taking, we were thinking that you were seeing us, and we were satisfied. We were thinking that the spiritual master is very much satisfied when he sees his disciples respecting bhagavata-prasadam. [break] …pray, Srila Prabhupada, that you recover. You won’t have to be bothered now by any more worries of any kind. You simply can translate and see all of the temples and the devotees. It will be very nice. You’ve never in all these years been able to be free of the worries and anxieties, but now you’ll be able to be. Krsna may grant you some more years so you can just have nice time with all of your disciples, visiting all the Deities. Like to take a little rest now, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Yes. What can I do? (laughs) (scratching sound) Whose hand it is? Whose hand? Bhavananda: Satadhanya. Satadhanya: Is it cold, Srila Prabhupada? Tamala Krsna: Make them warm. Make your hand warm by the stove. Prabhupada: Somebody’s hand is warm, I want. Whose hand? Tamala Krsna: Tamala Krsna. Better? Prabhupada: Where is podda? (?) Tamala Krsna: Your sister. I’m just calling right now. [break] (long pause—Srila Prabhupada is sleeping) …of the different businesses of Vrindavan? Well, first of all he was getting money for traveling expenses. So I have written a letter to Mr. Bekkar, the manager of the Central Bank of India at Camac Street, informing him that henceforward the interest from the fixed deposits in the name of BBT should be stopped from giving it to Vrinda Book Company, and instead the money should be transferred by mail transfer to the Central Bank of India, Gwalior Tank Road, to BBT account. I gave all the details. That’s one letter. Then furthermore, I also addressed a letter to the Punjab National Bank, Brabourn Road, informing them that the Rs. 500 should be stopped from being given to Shrimati Radharani De, because… I didn’t mention this, but the reason is that she’ll be getting one thousand rupees from Indian Overseas Bank. And I’m sending that letter… Prabhupada: Oh… Has Indian Overseas arranged? Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Let me explain what I was going to say. The letter to Punjab Bank I have not sent to the bank. Rather, I have sent it to Giriraja and informed him that when the Indian Overseas Bank sends their first transfer of Rs. 1000, then he may send the letter to Punjab Bank regarding Radharani De. In other words, when we first get it confirmed… Prabhupada: Why not Punjab National Bank, as they are sending, let them send and ask Overseas five hundred? Tamala Krsna: No, because we’ve already given them a scheme which accounts for everybody. Better to have the whole thing done in a very organized way from one bank, rather than a little here, a little from there. That is simply confusing. Besides that, the… It’s just a lot simpler, you know, if we do it this way. That is my opinion, because we’ve already given a scheme to Indian Overseas. We’ve put fixed deposits worth a certain amount which bring one thousand rupees interest. So now, if we have to tell them a whole new scheme, then it becomes confusion. It’s easier simply to inform the Punjab Bank to discontinue sending the five hundred rupees. Prabhupada: And unless they send, Overseas… Tamala Krsna: No, no. I am not sending a letter to Punjab Bank. The letter is being sent to Giriraja with the clear instruction on cover letter, “Only send this letter to Punjab Bank after you have it confirmed that they have begun to dispatch Rs. 1000 per month.” The same way we did for Sulakshman De. When we stopped sending it from here and we began sending from Bombay, we only told them to stop when it had begun to be sent from another bank. In other words, she’ll get the money first from Indian Overseas before the other payment’s stopped. Prabhupada: So how she will get? Tamala Krsna: Rs. 1000 per month. Prabhupada: How? Tamala Krsna: A transfer from Indian Overseas Bank to her account in Bank of…, I think it’s in United Bank of India, direct into her account. Her account is joint signature of herself and Vrindavan- candra. Prabhupada: Oh. So she is informed? Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes. All of them are informed. Then I’ve also sent a letter to the Central Bank of India—again I’m not sending it to Central Bank; I’ve given it to Giriraja—that when they start to get the 250 rupees a month from Indian Overseas, then we will stop sending the 250 from Central Bank of India. In other words, everything will be done from one bank, right on our land. It’s a lot easier to deal with this way. It’s much cleaner. Then… Let me see what else. I also sent a letter to M.M. De today. I requested him to please tell me what his bank account number is. I also… He’s dealing with most of the business of Panchashil flat. According to Vrindavan-candra, M.M. deals with these matters. Apparently he has a little more legal mind. Probably he’s more intelligent. Anyway… Prabhupada: No, who? Tamala Krsna: M.M. De. So in my letter to him I explained to him… I enclosed a copy of the conveyance draft, and I requested him that as far as I was concerned, the draft was all right, but that he should check up with some of the other flat owners. If they executed a similar conveyance, please inform me, and then we will do as they have done. I also told him that whatever taxes or other things which he pays should be paid in your name, and receipts should be gotten in your name, and copies of the receipts he can please send me for my records. And I also wrote to him that regarding the permanent electricity supply, if the four of them together pay half of the amount, then as soon as they send me the receipt, then I will send a check for the other half. Those were the points I wrote in the letter to him. What I’m going to do is, as soon as I get this amendment done which mentions about the misspending, not to misspend the money—squandering clause—then I will send a copy of that along with a letter, explaining to them how each one of them will be getting Rs. 250, and then after seven years, you know, the bigger amount. And then I will send them a copy of that squandering clause with that, saying, “But you should not squander this money. It must be invested in fixed deposits or government bonds. Otherwise your monthly pension will be stopped and it will be given to Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity.” I’m only going to do that after I get the amendment clause finished. So like that, everything was done, and I finished all of that business today. Also I wrote a letter to Dr. Ghosh, telling him that whatever money he advances we will match, again repeating our offer that we have two rooms ready. And I also mentioned to him how… He mentioned how he was a little disappointed with his discussions. I said that is not so surprising, because our Gurukula is ultimately meant for spiritual education, not otherwise, and we’re only going to give a little basic hygiene teaching. I said, “Mainly now you should take up this dispensary. We are very eager for that.” And again I invited him to come here soon. And I gave him a report of your health. And I also sent a letter to Bank of America in Los Angeles for transferring six hundred dollars to Prabhavisnu in Nepal, because each month we have to give him that money so he can stay there and work there nicely. And then I did some other letters to Punjab Bank in Delhi to the head office, telling them that the interest… For now the interest from those fixed deposits we’ll have credited to your account here. And once we have the first meeting of the Bhaktivedanta Charity Trust…, Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, we’ll open a bank account, probably in Mayapura or Swarup Ganj. Prabhupada: Why not open the Charity Trust account in Delhi? Tamala Krsna: In Delhi? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: Well, I would think that for operating it, it would be a lot more… My idea was that it would be better to have it in the Mayapura area itself, since it is primarily meant for spending… It is meant entirely for spending in Gauda-mandala-bhumi. My idea is that we would open the account in Gauda-mandala-bhumi area and give instruction to… Prabhupada: Gaura (indistinct) area where? Tamala Krsna: Well, right now our bank accounts are in Swarup Ganj, Bhavananda Maharaja? Bhavananda: We have in Swarup Ganj and Navadvipa and Krishnanagar. Tamala Krsna: I felt we would open it in either Swarup Ganj or Navadvipa. Bhavananda: Navadvipa is good banks. Tamala Krsna: In Navadvipa. And give the standing instruction at that time to Parliament Street bank to transfer every month the interest. That was my idea. But for the time being we have to tell them what to do with the interest. So I thought instead of going to the botheration of opening new accounts at the Punjab Bank at Parliament Street, let them go on transferring it to your accounts here. And then, when we open the Charity Trust account, then I’ll give them a fresh instruction. Prabhupada: What…? The… In the Punjab National Bank, fixed deposits in the name of? Tamala Krsna: Fixed deposits are in the name of… Five lakhs are in the name of Krsna-Balarama Temple Maintenance account, and five lakhs, sixty thousand in the name of Mayapura-Vrndavana Trust. Prabhupada: Oh. So where they will kept? Tamala Krsna: The interest or the fixed deposits? The fixed deposits are in Delhi, and the interest, for now, for the next few months, I am instructing the bank to continue to transfer to the accounts here in Vrndavana that it’s always been given to. Then when the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust account is opened, I will issue a fresh instruction to the Parliament Street bank that the interest money should be transferred to that account in Navadvipa or wherever we open the account. My idea was simply that since the money is to be spent in Gauda-mandala-bhumi, then when we write checks out, etcetera, from that account, it’s much easier to encash it rather than having to go to Delhi for encashment. Prabhupada: No, why Gauda-mandala-bhumi? Whenever needed… Tamala Krsna: Well, you said that the purpose of the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust was for development of Gauda-mandala- bhumi. That was your original… At least that’s what you initially told us. Prabhupada: Mm. Which is better? Which is better? Tamala Krsna: That it should be just for Gauda-mandala-bhumi or general? Prabhupada: Eh? Tamala Krsna: Well, I think it’s better for Gauda-mandala-bhumi. Because for general, we have ISKCON. For general, we have the… I’ll explain, Srila Prabhupada. For general, the GBC has formed the Mayapura-Vrndavana Committee. That is more or less… Your original name of it was Mayapura-Vrndavana Trust. So we’ve formed a Mayapura-Vrndavana Committee made up of the following seven people: Jayapataka Maharaja, Gopala Krsna Prabhu, Giriraja, myself, Ramesvara, and Gurukrpa Maharaja and Atreya Rsi. so these seven meet, and they divide up the money that comes from all the interest of the fixed deposits in India, and they will recommend how that money should be spent. Once a year they will consider at Mayapura all the different requests from Bhubaneshwar, from Mayapura, from Bombay, from Vrndavana, everywhere, and they will divide up the interest accordingly. So the Bhaktivedanta Charity Trust could be simply for the Gauda-mandala-bhumi area. That was my idea. Prabhupada: Whichever suitable. Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Which is suitable. Tamala Krsna: Yes, I think the general is already covered by this Mayapura-Vrndavana Trust committee. That’s for all of India. And Gauda-mandala-bhumi is especially for encouraging the development of Gaudiya Vaisnavism in that area—Sridhara Maharaja’s natha-mandira, this Yoga-pitha Bhaktivedanta Hall. Different buildings. Supposing one of your Godbrothers may have written some manuscript, he has no money. We can print some books for him so he can sell them, like that, works within the Mayapura area. Prabhupada: That we shall fix up, what to spend. Tamala Krsna: The Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity trustees would fix that up? Prabhupada: Hm. Tamala Krsna: Yes. Prabhupada: All right. Tamala Krsna: I don’t know if I’m understanding your desires about all of these points. Prabhupada: No. My point is that all this interest will go for charity. Tamala Krsna: “All of the interest” means from all of the different fixed deposits or from these ten lakhs, sixty thousand? Just like we have… I’ll give you an example. In Bombay we have that Mayapura- Vrndavana Trust fixed deposits in Bank of America. So those are big amount. So those fixed deposits and other fixed deposits, that money, I was thinking, would be decided by that Mayapura- Vrndavana Trust committee. Because those are all ISKCON men. Prabhupada: That’s all right. Tamala Krsna: Madhusudana Maharaja, Madhava Maharaja, they may decide for the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust with the other five of us. Prabhupada: That’s all right. Tamala Krsna: Is that all right, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: All right. Tamala Krsna: I think your prasadam is here, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: All right. [break] Tamala Krsna: How do you feel that this kaviraja’s medicine is affecting, Srila Prabhupada? Can you feel a change or… Prabhupada: Yesterday I felt some. But this massage is always… Tamala Krsna: Massage is always welcome. Perhaps this might be a nice time to call Jayadvaita and Pradyumna. Do you feel like speaking and hearing about Bhagavatam? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: You have no objection if they come? Prabhupada: No. Tamala Krsna: So I’ll arrange for them to come, Srila Prabhupada. We haven’t heard from Tenth Canto in a few days. That would be nice, I think. [break] Jayadvaita: …sent me an urgent telegram asking me to send the book manuscript and also to pick up another manuscript that he’d sent. So I went for… He told me to go for three days and not to come back to Vrndavana until it was done. But I went for one day. But I heard that I inconvenienced you because you couldn’t translate that night. I’m sorry that I held up the work. That anthology book of different articles written by Your Divine Grace, I think that will come out very nicely. That’s what Ramesvara was having me send him. Prabhupada: Anthology? Jayadvaita: It’s a collection—Ramesvara mentioned it while you were here, while he was here—a collection of different articles from Back to Godhead written by yourself. There’s your conversation with Professor Kotovsky, and also from the old BTG you were publishing in India there’s that article “Relevant Inquiries.” That’s very wonderful article. Your correspondence with Dr. Stahl, that’s also there. And lectures from different places. When you first arrived in London there’s a very wonderful lecture. So many wonderful articles that have been published over the years in BTG. But the real thing is Srimad-Bhagavatam. Prabhupada: Yes. Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada? (Bengali) Prabhupada: (Bengali) [break] Covering. Satadhanya: Yes, Prabhupada. Do you like heavy cover? [break] Svarupa Damodara: …(indistinct) Prabhupada: Yes. He should not have come in touch, in the material qualities. And in Prema-vivarta it is said, krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare So as soon as he forgets Krsna and wants to enjoy life independently, that is guna-sanga and falls down. It is falldown, this guna-sanga. Purusah prakrti-stho hi bhunkte… [Bg. 13.22]. What is that verse? Svarupa Damodara: You know the verse? Satadhanya: Which one? Prabhupada: You can find out. Svarupa Damodara: It’s from the Gita? Prabhupada: Yes. Svarupa Damodara: Guna, guna. Prabhupada: Purusah prakrti-stho hi bhunkte tad-gunan [Bg. 13.22]. You? find out? Svarupa Damodara: Yes, he’s bringing. Prabhupada: (Bengali) Svarupa Damodara: (Bengali) Satadhanya: purusah prakrti-stho hi bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan karanam guna-sango ’sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu [Bg. 13.22] “The living entity in material nature thus follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil amongst various species.” Prabhupada: Is it clear? Svarupa Damodara: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. So in that sense, matter is also life, but covered. Prabhupada: Hm. Svarupa Damodara: So the philosophy of acintya-bhedabheda-tattvam… Prabhupada: Matter is also energy. It is also energy. As energy, they are one. But have… They have differentiated in different… Is it clear? Svarupa Damodara: Yes. Prabhupada: The… Except spirit, other things are superficial, but they are there. Prakrti-stha. So his fault is to come in touch with the matter. Just like we are cleansing. The stool is also part of the body, but we are cleaning. Is it clear? Svarupa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Stool is not required. Svarupa Damodara: (pause) Yes, the example of the flower bud is nice. I can understand it better now. Prabhupada: Ksine punye punar martya-lokam visanti. By association of papa-punya, he suffers or enjoys. When the enjoyment is finished, he again falls down with vrsti and… Jalaja nava-laksani. Then, from water, again grows. Very troublesome business. ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151] (Bengali) [break] Svarupa Damodara: …is like this, that he thinks both are the same? Prabhupada: He thinks, but it… It is not the fact. Svarupa Damodara: One is covered consciousness, matter. So it is inferior. Prabhupada: The covering matter is inferior. Satadhanya: How the Mayavadi thinks that he can…, that the material energy is false when at every step he’s baffled by the material energy? Prabhupada: That is his foolishness. Therefore Krsna instructs, but he does not take. He wants to remain in maya and at the same time claim that he is liberated. Svarupa Damodara: Also, modern science tries to compromise… I’m sorry: Mayavadis try to compromise with modern science. Prabhupada: There is no other way. They cannot make a solution, so they must try to make a compromise. Svarupa Damodara: Yes. Just like when we say that spiritual atom or atma is innumerable in numbers, they immediately come up. Prabhupada: Sa anantyaya kalpate. As there are many molecules in the sunshine, similarly—yasya prabha [Bs. 5.40]—by…, in the effulgence of God there are so many molecules, or spiritual spark. Svarupa Damodara: Also, even it makes stronger now, that within the atom, if there is a jiva or life which is not developed, so it will be many more, innumerable. Prabhupada: Yes. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. That is the difficulty. They do not want to take sastra as it is. Svarupa Damodara: They want to interpret according to their whims. Satadhanya: And they want to adjust it according to the time. Prabhupada: And that is Mayavada. [break] …superficially Caitanya Mahaprabhu also a Mayavadi. Svarupa Damodara: Yes. That was confirmed when He was talking like that. Just like Carl Jung… He’s a psychologist. He says that matter is a concept, some sort of imagination that one has in his mind, something like that idea that these Mayavadis… They think this is not real. Prabhupada: It is not real in this sense: because the spirit is there, therefore it is there. Because there is consciousness, there is ignorance, covering. And if you stop this ignorance, then consciousness is there, pure. Svarupa Damodara: When the consciousness is undeveloped, looks like dead body. Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. [break] Svarupa Damodara: In a living body, in a living cell, actually it is made up of innumerable lives. But among these innumerable lives, the jiva, who is… Prabhupada: He’s a particular individual. In the body… Just like you are in this room. When you leave this room, the room becomes vacant, but there are innumerable other jivas. Svarupa Damodara: But different consciousness. So among these innumerable lives making this whole living body, there is one which is highly… Prabhupada: Particular. Svarupa Damodara: Yes. Conscious. Satadhanya: Who permeates that body. Prabhupada: And we can experience. There are so many germs within the body. Svarupa Damodara: So when that most conscious jiva leaves the body, still, the body is made up of those innumerable lives, but whose consciousness developed, that we call a dead matter. Prabhupada: Yes. Not dead matter. They come out. As soon as the body is decomposed, they come out. You cannot say that the life- giving substance is gone. It is there. [break] …this boy. Bhakti-caru: No, no. I had a talk with him. He’s not really depending on him. I asked him. He said that it’s always better to train up…, to have someone around who’s seeing how he is treating. Tamala Krsna: Why? If he’s around, why is it better to have someone else? Bhakti-caru: He’s says that just… Anyway, he’ll come and explain it to you. Tamala Krsna: I know what he’s going to explain. He can’t explain anything except that he wants to leave this boy in his place. That’s the real point. Prabhupada: Eh? Tamala Krsna: I’m saying that the real point is that we don’t want this boy to take the place of this kaviraja, which is what the kaviraja is planning. Bhakti-caru: Yes, right. But the thing is that kaviraja can’t stay for more than five days. Tamala Krsna: That’s all right, but this is the point, that this boy is not a replacement for this kaviraja. The fact is that Prabhupada’s condition being the way it is, we can’t depend on the fact that Prabhupada will continue to get exactly better as the kaviraja plans. Bhakti-caru: Then what do you think the alternative should be? Tamala Krsna: The alternative is that either the kaviraja should stay here, or if we feel this kaviraja is actually giving beneficial help, then we should go with him. But I don’t think that we should put ourselves in the hands of this junior man. Prabhupada: That is right conclusion. Bhakti-caru: None of us… As soon as we saw him, we didn’t even like his looks. Bhakti-caru: But the kaviraja doesn’t want that Prabhupada should move. Tamala Krsna: Then he should stay here if he doesn’t want it. What will you do if, supposing after three days after the kaviraja leaves, suddenly Prabhupada’s condition changes in such a way that it wasn’t counted on. Then what will be done at that time? Then it means that this junior man suddenly has to give diagnosis and treatment? Bhakti-caru: That’s the best. I mean if he stays here, then there is nothing… Tamala Krsna: If he can’t stay here, then he should help to take Prabhupada to Mayapura. And actually that will make him very responsible, because then he’ll see that Prabhupada is taking risk simply to be under his care. So that will make him feel even more obligated to take proper care of Srila Prabhupada even after going to Mayapura. Prabhupada: This is the right conclusion. Bhakti-caru: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. (Bengali) Prabhupada: (Bengali) He does not agree. Then? Bhavananda: Agree to remain? Tamala Krsna: No. He… He’ll either agree to remain or else we’ll make him agree to take you to Mayapura. Probably by our refusing to accept this assistant, it will induce him to stay here a little bit longer to prepare you for the journey, and then he’ll take you to Mayapura. Prabhupada: Journey, what is the difficulty? Tamala Krsna: I don’t find any difficulty. I didn’t find any difficulty one week ago. I’m prepared to take you anywhere in the world, in any condition. I don’t think that there’s so much difficulty. I see how we’re putting you on the palanquin. Prabhupada: Bhavananda? Bhavananda: I also agree with Tamala, Srila Prabhupada. Tamala Krsna: There’s ten of us. Bhavananda Maharaja, Satadhanya Maharaja, Upendra, myself, Svarupa Damodara, Jayadvaita, Yadubara, Adri-dharana, Bhakti-caru, and one kaviraja. It is a proper entourage for a king. Prabhupada: I am prepared also. How many hours it will take altogether? Tamala Krsna: By plane? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: It will take three hours to the Delhi airport. Then it will take…, say, three hours, then one hour before take-off is four hours. Two hours on the flight is six hours, and three hours to Mayapura, total… Bhavananda: No. Four hours to Mayapura, ’cause we’ll go slow. Tamala Krsna: Anyway, within ten hours from this bed to your bed in Mayapura. Prabhupada: Ten hours? Tamala Krsna: Maximum. Prabhupada: How ten hours? Tamala Krsna: Three hours from here to the Delhi airport. One hour at the Delhi airport makes four hours. Prabhupada: You are going to Delhi airport in three hours. Then? Tamala Krsna: Then one hour waiting for the plane to take off. That’s four hours. Two hours for the plane. That’s six hours. And three to four hours to go to Mayapura. Three hours to go to Mayapura. Bhavananda: It always takes four hours. Tamala Krsna: (to Bhavananda:) But that’s four hours from the Calcutta temple, not from Dum Dum. No, I’m telling you, you don’t have to go through Calcutta at all. Bhavananda: It only takes half an hour to get to the airport, and we’ll go slow. Tamala Krsna: Then four hours from the Calcutta airport to Mayapura. Total of ten hours. Prabhupada: Four hours? Tamala Krsna: Well, I’m arguing this point with Bhavananda Maharaja, but he insists that he knows, so I’m accepting his statement. Three to four hours. Bhavananda: Because the road is… Bhakti-caru: Yes, it’s not so good now. Bhavananda: So if you go too fast, then it’s too bumpy. If you go slow, then it’s reasonable. Prabhupada: So let us go. And keep me in the open air. (pause) Tamala Krsna: The main thing is that we must present it to the kaviraja that we are depending on his care. If you actually feel this kaviraja to be good and helpful, then we must present it in such a way that “We fully depend upon your treatment. Therefore, as you… We cannot depend on any junior man, because there may be complications at any time. Therefore, when you feel Prabhupada is ready, you take us to Mayapura. And if your other business in Calcutta is so pressing, then take us now.” And in that way he’ll be forced to feel responsible, because he’ll see that we are going on his account. Prabhupada: Talk like that. Tamala Krsna: Yes. I won’t be able to… I’ll talk, but they’ll have to translate. Bhakti-caru has to translate. Or Adri-dharana. Bhavananda: Adri-dharana. Adri-dharana: He said he’s now made it his personal problem. He’s taking a personal interest. Tamala Krsna: Adri-dharana is here. He says the kaviraja is taking it as his personal problem, your health, as his personal interest. Adri-dharana: Today he’s going to go six hours himself and wait for the medicine to be prepared. Tamala Krsna: He’s going to prepare it, I think. Adri-dharana: He’s going to go and sit and watch it being prepared, six hours, so no mistake is made. Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: Adri-dharana Prabhu says that today the kaviraja is going to Mathura, and he will sit six hours watching the medicine being distilled. He’s personally going to watch to see so that there’s absolutely no mistake made. This is required. Bhavananda: This man is competent. Tamala Krsna: I may not be an expert judge, but I have never seen, in my opinion, anyone who seemed to be this good. Prabhupada: No, if we have program to go to Mayapura, he has got that distilled medicine in his dispensary. Tamala Krsna: Yes, but one thing is this: the more time we can gain in waiting here, the better. In other words, he’s not going to stay here indefinitely. That’s a fact. He’s going to have to go within the next few days. Adri-dharana: He’s planning to leave tomorrow. But we can hold him off for two more days. Tamala Krsna: We can hold him because, no doubt about it, the few extra days we gain will give you a little added strength. The main thing is that you should be feeling some positive effect from his treatments, because ultimately that is the real deciding factor. Our opinion of him…. He may be very nice looking, but if the medicine works, that is what counts. Bhavananda: Of course, we don’t know, but we’re all feeling that you’re feeling some effect. You told me the other night. Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: It should be tangibly felt. It should be some actual, tangible result. You should have more strength, sitting up on your own or something of this kind. Then I’ll believe that you’re actually feeling better, Srila Prabhupada. Because otherwise, psychologically, one may feel himself better, but then that should manifest in being able to sit up or something of that kind, turn around in bed on one’s own. Prabhupada: Do you think I am able to do that? Tamala Krsna: Well, I’m encouraging you. I don’t know if you can do it. Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) Prabhupada: Now I cannot sit up independently. Tamala Krsna: No. Of course, that’s a big step to take, but there’s things like turning over in bed on one’s own. I mean the point is one should not have to force oneself to do this, but those will be the signs of actual improvement. Bhavananda: But that will only come from renewal of strength. And renewal of strength will only come from appetite, when you start eating. Tamala Krsna: Yeah, it’s not artificial. Prabhupada: Eating only juice. Bhakti-caru: Milk… (Bengali) Tamala Krsna: Juice is for maintaining. It’s not for improving the condition. Juice you can maintain one’s life, but to actually get strength you have to take something more substantial than juice. Milk is one thing, of course. Bhakti-caru: Kaviraja is stressing on milk and barley. Prabhupada: (Bengali) Tamala Krsna: The kaviraja said he had some cough medicine to put in the milk. Bhakti-caru: Yes. Yes. He gave it to me yesterday. But last night I didn’t want to give the milk. Tamala Krsna: So what about now? Bhakti-caru: Milk hasn’t come. Next I will give. Say after about an hour. Now I will feed him the orange juice and… Bhavananda: Maybe after parikrama. Prabhupada: (Bengali) [break] How many plane go from Delhi? Tamala Krsna: There’s a… Delhi, there’s two flights. One is in the morning, and the other one is in the evening. Morning flight is at about six-thirty in the morning, six-forty in the morning, and the evening flight is quite late, about eight o’clock at night. We would want to take the morning flight. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
October 30, 1977, Vrndavana