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Interv PHI 1975-07-11 Press--Spirits in Alien Machines
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ANNOUNCER: The following
is a press conference,
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on July 11th,
1975, in Philadelphia.
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WOMAN REPORTER: …[splice] the
Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement
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has been what some people
would consider sexist
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or racist because certain propensities for
women and for blacks have been defined,
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either by the devotees or by the
Vedic scriptures, I’m not sure which.
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And I wondered if you
would comment on that.
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BRAHMĀNANDA: It has been
alleged that our movement is
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against women and against Negroes
because we do not give them… What is it?
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Well, not necessarily against them,
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but defining inferior roles for
them by their natural traits.
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Give inferior roles to
women and to Negroes.
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PRABHUPĀDA: We give
equal roles spiritually.
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Materially, one man is
servant; one man is master.
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How you can avoid this?
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Do you think everyone will be master,
nobody will be servant, materially?
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Materially, one is father,
one is son, one is master,
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one is servant, one is
man, one is woman.
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How can you stop this?
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But spiritually, they are all equal.
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What is happening materially
is unimportant? [splice]
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but when you come to the
spiritual platform, then,
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when you discern the spirit soul
within everyone, that is equal.
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That is… Just like you are
differently dressed in red shirt;
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I am differently… This dress,
this difference, must be there.
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There are so many
men and women.
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They are differently dressed.
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You cannot say they are
all equal by the dress.
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But within the dress, the living
entities, they are all the same.
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We make this distinction:
material, not spiritual.
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MALE REPORTER (2): [splice]
The question would be:
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What is it that he has offered
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that has turned out such an
emotional response today?
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He wants to know
what you have offered
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that has resulted in such
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a wonderful emotional response
from all the people here.
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Because they are being
spiritually educated.
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We are above material platform;
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therefore we have no distinction
that one is American, one is Indian,
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one is black, one is white.
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We have no such distinction.
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Everyone is servant of God.
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Is that all right?
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I know you are very much
aware of all the other gurus,
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especially that have been coming to
the United States in the recent years,
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and I wondered if you could
explain why it is that you believe
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that you have the truth
rather than someone else.
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Explain?
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She wants to know that
there are many other gurus,
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and why do you feel
that you have the truth?
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Because we speak the truth.
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We don’t give bluff that “I am God.
I am this. I am that.” We don’t give.
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We are… Actual position: God
is great, and we are all servants.
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This is our actual position.
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How can I say, “I am God?”
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So we do not give bluff.
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We say the real truth;
therefore it appeals.
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And if I say something
humbug, it will not appeal.
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It may act for some time, but
it will not endure. [splice]
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REPORTER (2): Your
celebration is tomorrow:
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Of what will that
celebration consist?
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Celebration? It is
remembering Kṛṣṇa, or Lord.
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He, with His brother and sister,
visited Kurukṣetra, a place in India.
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So in memory of that visit we observe this
Ratha-yātrā [break] [in car:] …is nice there.
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So again the same
question was raised.
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So reply was all right? Yes.
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She was very nice.
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What was the question?
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That we have distinction between
man and woman, black and white.
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Materially, there is distinction.
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You are differently dressed;
I am differently dressed.
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But spiritually,
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there is no distinction [break]
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…sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
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śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ
sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18].
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So a very learned scholar,
brāhmaṇa, and a dog.
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So materially, how
they can be equal?
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If I say, “The President Ford and a dog is on
the same level,” then it will be very nice?
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Spiritually, we are one.
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That is real observation.
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Artificially, to make man and woman equal,
that may be artificially your sentiment,
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but actually it is not the fact [break]
…other university in Philadelphia?
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Yes. The University
of Pennsylvania.
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Oh.
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Oh, yes. That… You also visited there
in 1965. Yes. Nineteen sixty-five
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I came to see one professor,
Dr. Norman Brown [?].
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When I was at Temple, they
told me that you had come.
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This was before I had ever
heard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
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But they told me that you had
come the year before I was there.
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I went there, and then the year
before, you had been there.
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And so I took a course with
this Swami Nikilananda.
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And you had spoken in his class,
and they told me that you asked,
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“So you are studying Vedānta.
So what is Vedānta?”
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And no one knew. No one
knew what Vedānta meant.
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And you said that “Veda means
knowledge, and anta means end.
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So Vedānta means the end of
knowledge, and that is Kṛṣṇa.”
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They had never heard that before,
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even though they’d had so many
hours of courses in Vedānta.
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That is the difficulty, that
those who are foolish people,
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they are taking leading part.
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That is the defect of
modern civilization.
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One who has no knowledge, he
is taking the part of a teacher.
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So a hodgepodge, must be. He is
speaking something hodgepodge.
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Just like this, one does not know what
is Vedānta, and he is reading Vedānta.
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It is very simple truth.
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Veda means knowledge,
and anta means end.
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There must be
something, ultimate, goal.
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But the modern process is that we go on
unlimitedly, but never we come to the end.
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Is it not like that?
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What do you think? Yes.
It’s a fact, no conclusion.
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PRABHUPĀDA:
Freight[?] motorcar.
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It is a graveyard,
automobile graveyard.
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This is the end of their knowledge.
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A pile of junk.
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KĪRTANĀNANDA:
Building and breaking.
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Yes [break] …spent up in
breaking and building. That’s all.
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That means that there’s passion and
there’s ignorance, but there’s no goodness.
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Yes.
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They do not enquire why breaking
and building? Why not permanent?
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That question does not arise,
and they cannot solve it.
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They think this breaking
and building is the nature.
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But we are giving information of another
nature, which there is no breaking,
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no building—permanent.
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They cannot believe it, that
there is such thing. [splice]
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That is chewing the chewed.
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They never question, “Why
breaking and building?
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Why not permanent?”
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We are doing the same
thing with our body.
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We are breaking.
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As soon as the body is old, we are
breaking and accepting another body,
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again building.
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Again old, again breaking, again
entering another… This is going on.
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But the question
does not arise, “Why?
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I don’t like this breaking and building,
but why I am put into this condition?”
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That is intelligence.
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Who wants to die?
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No.
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Even a very old man—he is suffering from
so many things—still, if somebody comes,
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“Oh, I will kill you,” he says,
“Oh, no, no, no! Don’t kill me.
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I don’t want to die.” Why?
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If somebody says that “You are old man.
There is no use…” Now this is coming.
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The Communists, they are coming to that
point, “This is an old man, simply eating.
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He is not doing
anything. So finish him.”
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What is called? Mercy…?
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Mercy killing. Mercy killing.
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It will be merciful if one is killed.
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So this is coming.
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But the point is that if you have come
to show me the mercy of killing,
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but I am not prepared to be killed.
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Why?
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You have come to show me mercy, but
I am not prepared to take your mercy.
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Why?
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What is the psychology?
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KĪRTANĀNANDA:
No one wants to die.
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That is.
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So that means he is eternal.
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This death is artificial.
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Na hanyate hanyamāne
śarīre [Bg. 2.20].
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He does not die. He is not killed.
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There is one verse that “If one thinks
that ‘I am killer,’ and one thinks,
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‘I am killed,’ both of them
do not know what is life.”
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In the Bhagavad-
gītā there is a verse.
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So I am eternal. That’s a fact.
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Therefore I do not
wish to be killed.
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But I do not know
how to keep myself.
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That I do not know.
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We are giving that information,
how you can keep yourself eternal.
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This is the greatest gift
to the human society.
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He wants to live eternally, but he
does not know how to live eternally.
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His energy is being spoiled by this
skyscraper building construction.
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But he is not very serious to
construct his body eternal.
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He will not be able to live
in the skyscraper building.
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Maybe he will be allowed
to live, to live there as a rat.
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There are rats, so many rats.
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Actually, this is the fact.
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The person who has got very attachment
for that place but he is not to live there,
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but on account of attachment, thinking
of that place at the time of death—
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but he is so sinful he cannot
be given the human body—
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then he is given the cat’s or
the rat’s body: “Live here.”
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Or a tree or a plant.
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So where is the science
discussing all this?
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Wherefrom the tree has come?
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They are satisfied only that “I
have now a skyscraper building,”
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but do not know that whether
he will be allowed to live here.
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Vairāgya-vidyā.
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These things are being discussed in
meeting, in our meeting anywhere.
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But they have no
brain to understand.
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And they don’t want to hear. No.
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Caraṇe sarve varṇe kaye [?].
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A thief, if you speak to him, “My dear
Mr. Thief, it is not very good work.
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You will be arrested.
You will be punished.
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Why you are taking this risk?”
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so will he give up stealing?
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He knows himself, “Yes, I will be arrested
and punished, but still I shall do.”
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This is ignorance.
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Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com