0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,941 MW BOM 1975-11-19 Everyone Knows Your Philosophy 1 00:00:14,942 --> 00:00:17,821 ANNOUNCER: The following is a morning walk conversation 2 00:00:17,822 --> 00:00:23,411 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:23,412 --> 00:00:46,491 recorded on the 19th of November 1975, in Bombay, India. [splice] 4 00:00:46,492 --> 00:00:49,889 Yes, Sunday, the sun is the center, and I mean, 5 00:00:49,890 --> 00:00:54,149 that is, I recall, first sun, and then Monday is next day, 6 00:00:54,150 --> 00:01:01,819 then Tuesday, which is next to the earth, and Wednesday next to the sun. 7 00:01:01,820 --> 00:01:05,189 Then sun is first, then moon. 8 00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:07,379 But they say moon is first, then sun. 9 00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:08,319 Who says? 10 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:13,116 The scientists. No. Yes. They say the moon is… 11 00:01:13,117 --> 00:01:15,160 DR. PATEL: So far the distance is concerned, 12 00:01:15,161 --> 00:01:17,470 moon may be nearest. How it is, that? 13 00:01:17,471 --> 00:01:18,560 It is so, sir. 14 00:01:18,561 --> 00:01:19,520 Huh? 15 00:01:19,521 --> 00:01:21,820 Our science says so. Your science may not. 16 00:01:21,821 --> 00:01:25,220 And we don’t want to clash the sciences here. 17 00:01:25,221 --> 00:01:29,970 Let us talk about philosophy. [laughs] 18 00:01:29,971 --> 00:01:34,700 Jump over. 19 00:01:34,701 --> 00:01:39,550 Chandra is the upagraha, isn’t it? 20 00:01:39,551 --> 00:01:41,390 As guru has got many such grahas. 21 00:01:41,391 --> 00:01:44,660 It is one of the celestial planets. 22 00:01:44,661 --> 00:01:47,620 And they say there is no life. 23 00:01:47,621 --> 00:01:48,940 It is not self-luminous. 24 00:01:48,941 --> 00:01:51,220 All grahas are not self-luminous. 25 00:01:51,221 --> 00:01:56,390 When we observe in the sky, those stars are bleeping like this. 26 00:01:56,391 --> 00:02:00,490 The grahas are straight as that, the Sukra behind us, 27 00:02:00,491 --> 00:02:05,770 just steady light. [break] 28 00:02:05,771 --> 00:02:11,520 …philosophy is also incorrect, there is no life after death. 29 00:02:11,521 --> 00:02:12,781 Who says so? 30 00:02:12,782 --> 00:02:17,291 Oh, so many, all Westerners. 31 00:02:17,292 --> 00:02:19,901 The Easterns… That does not mean… 32 00:02:19,902 --> 00:02:24,321 The Eastern philosophy is only with the jāgrati stage. 33 00:02:24,322 --> 00:02:27,991 But the jīva has got three stages, and the fourth stage, 34 00:02:27,992 --> 00:02:30,431 the turīya stage, is the real stage that we understand. 35 00:02:30,432 --> 00:02:32,621 They don’t have idea of it, unfortunately. 36 00:02:32,622 --> 00:02:36,181 So that philosophy is not the real philosophy of life. 37 00:02:36,182 --> 00:02:38,811 Life as a whole should have its own philosophy. 38 00:02:38,812 --> 00:02:43,991 They don’t understand that there is anything beyond the jāgrati stage. 39 00:02:43,992 --> 00:02:49,961 But then there is a svapna stage, there is a sleep stage and the turīya stage. 40 00:02:49,962 --> 00:02:53,601 In that if I am wrong you may correct me, sir. 41 00:02:53,602 --> 00:02:55,601 You cannot be corrected. 42 00:02:55,602 --> 00:02:57,421 I cannot be wrong, say that. 43 00:02:57,422 --> 00:02:59,111 No, I cannot correct you. 44 00:02:59,112 --> 00:03:00,481 You? 45 00:03:00,482 --> 00:03:04,171 You cannot be correct…? Why I should not be corrected? 46 00:03:04,172 --> 00:03:10,471 Because the philosophy must encompass the whole life, not a part of it. 47 00:03:10,472 --> 00:03:16,142 All Western philosophers, only except Schopenhauer and Eckhart, 48 00:03:16,143 --> 00:03:20,042 they only thought about the waking stage. 49 00:03:20,043 --> 00:03:22,922 They have never thought about the dream and the deep sleep stage 50 00:03:22,923 --> 00:03:25,082 and the stage beyond the three. 51 00:03:25,083 --> 00:03:31,282 None of them, excepting Eckhart of Germany. 52 00:03:31,283 --> 00:03:34,662 So the Western philosophers are all wrong 53 00:03:34,663 --> 00:03:37,492 or partially true [break] 54 00:03:37,493 --> 00:03:42,892 The Western philosophers have never thought about the three other stages, 55 00:03:42,893 --> 00:03:44,842 none of them. [break] 56 00:03:44,843 --> 00:03:53,062 …philosophy rejects any philosophy based on thinking. 57 00:03:53,063 --> 00:03:56,372 But you see thinking is an apparatus which takes you beyond thinking. 58 00:03:56,373 --> 00:03:57,302 That is another. 59 00:03:57,303 --> 00:03:59,092 That takes you beyond thinking. 60 00:03:59,093 --> 00:04:03,952 You cannot go beyond thinking without thinking to be taken as a fact. 61 00:04:03,953 --> 00:04:07,942 But thinking must be intelligent thinking. [splice] 62 00:04:07,943 --> 00:04:11,712 under the direction of intelligence. Buddhi [splice] 63 00:04:11,713 --> 00:04:17,132 are separate arrangement, although they are one. 64 00:04:17,133 --> 00:04:19,663 They are the different facets of the same 65 00:04:19,664 --> 00:04:24,683 internal organ as a whole. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya [break] 66 00:04:24,684 --> 00:04:31,283 …set is there, but beyond that mental stage there is intellect. 67 00:04:31,284 --> 00:04:34,763 Beyond intellect there is soul. 68 00:04:34,764 --> 00:04:39,133 To go beyond intellect for a body conscious ego, 69 00:04:39,134 --> 00:04:43,943 the ego must dissolve and find itself to be a jīva, 70 00:04:43,944 --> 00:04:47,673 and then he travels further up to find his own identity 71 00:04:47,674 --> 00:04:49,813 and his own relation with God. 72 00:04:49,814 --> 00:04:52,993 Before, I mean, mind is one, you cannot go beyond it. 73 00:04:52,994 --> 00:04:56,063 That is what my conjecture. I may be wrong for all that. 74 00:04:56,064 --> 00:04:59,583 One has to go beyond the mind, but those who are 75 00:04:59,584 --> 00:05:04,353 stuck up with the mind, they are useless. 76 00:05:04,354 --> 00:05:09,563 So the Western philosophers, they are stuck up with the mind. 77 00:05:09,564 --> 00:05:11,603 That is the defect [break] 78 00:05:11,604 --> 00:05:17,333 …bhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [?]. 79 00:05:17,334 --> 00:05:29,533 Manorathena, mental concoction, asataḥ. 80 00:05:29,534 --> 00:05:36,763 Western philosophers, they take the mind as the soul [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. 81 00:05:36,764 --> 00:05:38,523 Hm? Yes. 82 00:05:38,524 --> 00:05:42,374 And the Communists think even the matter is more important than the mind. 83 00:05:42,375 --> 00:05:46,274 What do you call? Dialectical materialism, 84 00:05:46,275 --> 00:05:51,084 that the matter produces consciousness. 85 00:05:51,085 --> 00:05:54,634 It is not the consciousness which, I mean, collects matter around it. 86 00:05:54,635 --> 00:05:56,074 That is their philosophy. 87 00:05:56,075 --> 00:06:01,264 That is this dialectical materialism. 88 00:06:01,265 --> 00:06:02,584 They are absolutely wrong. 89 00:06:02,585 --> 00:06:06,894 They are even further down than the Western philosophers, 90 00:06:06,895 --> 00:06:09,804 mental philosophers. 91 00:06:09,805 --> 00:06:16,294 [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa [break] …is already mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā. 92 00:06:16,295 --> 00:06:20,424 Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ 93 00:06:20,425 --> 00:06:22,854 manaḥ manasas tu parā buddhir… [Bg. 3.42]. 94 00:06:22,855 --> 00:06:24,584 Buddhi tu… Paraṁ buddhva [?]? [splice] 95 00:06:24,585 --> 00:06:31,544 That mind has to… I mean, isn’t it out for itself that it is false? 96 00:06:31,545 --> 00:06:34,304 That comes to that. Not false. 97 00:06:34,305 --> 00:06:39,124 I mean false so far as higher category is concerned, the jīva. 98 00:06:39,125 --> 00:06:44,714 Nothing is false, but there are different steps. 99 00:06:44,715 --> 00:06:53,334 One step is important than the other, but they are not false. 100 00:06:53,335 --> 00:07:00,135 Just like the water, the sand, then earth, then the building. 101 00:07:00,136 --> 00:07:03,655 You cannot construct a building here. 102 00:07:03,656 --> 00:07:10,475 So these are different stages of reality. 103 00:07:10,476 --> 00:07:19,775 [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. 104 00:07:19,776 --> 00:07:21,855 …is taken from the earth. 105 00:07:21,856 --> 00:07:24,255 There is no doubt about it. 106 00:07:24,256 --> 00:07:30,465 Why the scientists cannot take? 107 00:07:30,466 --> 00:07:34,185 This is a fact, that there is aroma, 108 00:07:34,186 --> 00:07:38,205 and the flower has taken the aroma from the earth. 109 00:07:38,206 --> 00:07:40,495 But why the scientists cannot take? 110 00:07:40,496 --> 00:07:43,025 They can make chemicals, the flavors. 111 00:07:43,026 --> 00:07:47,615 They can make flavors, aromas, from chemicals. 112 00:07:47,616 --> 00:07:48,705 As good? 113 00:07:48,706 --> 00:07:52,345 No [laughter] 114 00:07:52,346 --> 00:08:03,876 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: They make a flavor and then say it’s a rose flavor. 115 00:08:03,877 --> 00:08:09,286 That is also not all kinds of flavors. 116 00:08:09,287 --> 00:08:11,266 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: I think if they want to produce rose flavor 117 00:08:11,267 --> 00:08:14,256 they must use the roses somehow or other. 118 00:08:14,257 --> 00:08:16,516 I don’t think they can just produce. 119 00:08:16,517 --> 00:08:17,576 GOPĀLA KṚṢṆA: They use a little bit. 120 00:08:17,577 --> 00:08:20,446 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: Yes. 121 00:08:20,447 --> 00:08:22,136 They must use. 122 00:08:22,137 --> 00:08:25,966 They are taking chemicals, making flavor, 123 00:08:25,967 --> 00:08:30,746 and the flower is coming out without any chemical. 124 00:08:30,747 --> 00:08:39,456 So who is more artist, better artist? [break] 125 00:08:39,457 --> 00:08:41,546 …they will wilt and die. 126 00:08:41,547 --> 00:08:42,386 Hm? 127 00:08:42,387 --> 00:08:45,256 These flowers, they will wilt and die, 128 00:08:45,257 --> 00:08:50,516 but they can make flowers that will not die, will not wilt [laughter] 129 00:08:50,517 --> 00:08:52,566 Of course, they have no smell. 130 00:08:52,567 --> 00:08:59,176 Therefore they make without smell [break] …earth is this side and moon is this side, 131 00:08:59,177 --> 00:09:03,277 then which is first? 132 00:09:03,278 --> 00:09:07,127 Both of them are both sides. 133 00:09:07,128 --> 00:09:14,317 The sun is larger in the sky, so that means it is nearer to the earth? 134 00:09:14,318 --> 00:09:18,437 Yes. Should be. 135 00:09:18,438 --> 00:09:25,207 Because you calculate about the stars, very, very far away. 136 00:09:25,208 --> 00:09:26,807 Is it not? Oh, yes. 137 00:09:26,808 --> 00:09:29,647 Then which is smaller is far away [break] 138 00:09:29,648 --> 00:09:31,637 YAŚOMAT-NANDANA: …systems are bigger than the smaller ones? 139 00:09:31,638 --> 00:09:33,157 Hm? 140 00:09:33,158 --> 00:09:34,737 The upper planetary systems, 141 00:09:34,738 --> 00:09:42,527 are they bigger than the lower ones? 142 00:09:42,528 --> 00:09:44,617 sun is bigger than the earth, the moon is bigger… 143 00:09:44,618 --> 00:09:54,807 PRABHUPĀDA: Yes, there is measurement [break] 144 00:09:54,808 --> 00:09:57,267 JAYAPATAKA: Some people say that 145 00:09:57,268 --> 00:10:01,487 “You are coming to India for preaching, but we Indians, 146 00:10:01,488 --> 00:10:04,547 we already know all the, about Kṛṣṇa and Rāma. 147 00:10:04,548 --> 00:10:11,937 Why don’t… You should be preaching in the West, where the people don’t know.” 148 00:10:11,938 --> 00:10:16,217 But you know from the Western people. 149 00:10:16,218 --> 00:10:20,668 They are not… They are imitating Western people. 150 00:10:20,669 --> 00:10:22,228 You know from the Western people; 151 00:10:22,229 --> 00:10:27,628 therefore you have to learn from this Western people this also. 152 00:10:27,629 --> 00:10:29,829 They are learning everything else from the Western people, 153 00:10:29,830 --> 00:10:30,989 so why not… PRABHUPĀDA: Yes. 154 00:10:30,990 --> 00:10:36,859 ŚRĪDHARA: Everyone in India knows the līlā of Kṛṣṇa, but the science of Kṛṣṇa, 155 00:10:36,860 --> 00:10:40,179 that they have forgotten. 156 00:10:40,180 --> 00:10:45,889 They know līlā of Kṛṣṇa but they do not know Kṛṣṇa. 157 00:10:45,890 --> 00:10:49,949 Huh? Who was…? 158 00:10:49,950 --> 00:10:55,839 You were telling that Mr. Bajaj, he wants to take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa without Kṛṣṇa. 159 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,459 Yes. 160 00:10:58,460 --> 00:11:02,749 Then how you will take this instruction when Kṛṣṇa says, 161 00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:07,119 man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]? 162 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,709 If they do not take Kṛṣṇa, then how this instruction will be taken? 163 00:11:11,710 --> 00:11:13,559 It can’t be. 164 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:22,179 Well, rasa-līlā is more important than those instructions [Prabhupāda laughs] 165 00:11:22,180 --> 00:11:25,849 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: Actually, the real scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, 166 00:11:25,850 --> 00:11:30,879 they admit that later on this Bhagavad-gītā came out, 167 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,999 which was stressing more on bhakti. 168 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,260 Later on. Later on. 169 00:11:36,261 --> 00:11:39,420 These scholars, these mundane scholars, those who have studied Bhagavad-gītā, 170 00:11:39,421 --> 00:11:46,310 they accept that Bhagavad-gītā is based around bhakti principle. 171 00:11:46,311 --> 00:11:48,530 So how it came later on? 172 00:11:48,531 --> 00:11:51,670 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: That they are rascal. That they don’t. 173 00:11:51,671 --> 00:11:54,360 And what was the beginning? 174 00:11:54,361 --> 00:11:55,830 All these Vedas and everything. 175 00:11:55,831 --> 00:12:02,140 No, bhagavad-gītā? They say, “later on.” 176 00:12:02,141 --> 00:12:02,794 Who was the first… 177 00:12:02,795 --> 00:12:04,720 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: He says that it was the Vaisnavites 178 00:12:04,721 --> 00:12:11,170 who introduced Bhagavad-gītā. 179 00:12:11,171 --> 00:12:15,500 Then why Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā? 180 00:12:15,501 --> 00:12:16,320 He is not a Vaiṣṇava. 181 00:12:16,321 --> 00:12:17,960 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: That they cannot answer. 182 00:12:17,961 --> 00:12:21,670 PRABHUPĀDA: Then they’re foolish. 183 00:12:21,671 --> 00:12:23,020 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: That they cannot answer. 184 00:12:23,021 --> 00:12:27,520 Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā. 185 00:12:27,521 --> 00:12:34,960 Śaṅkarācārya accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. 186 00:12:34,961 --> 00:12:40,220 Sa bhagavān svaya kṛṣṇaḥ [?]. 187 00:12:40,221 --> 00:12:42,511 He has written… YAŚOMATĪ- NANDANA: It is like that. 188 00:12:42,512 --> 00:12:48,231 They think that Śaṅkarācārya also liked Bhagavad-gītā, 189 00:12:48,232 --> 00:12:51,341 but the personal Kṛṣṇa was not very important. 190 00:12:51,342 --> 00:12:55,131 No. According to his bhāṣya, they think like that. 191 00:12:55,132 --> 00:13:01,861 No, he has written many prayers on Kṛṣṇa. 192 00:13:01,862 --> 00:13:08,511 Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍhā-mate [?]. 193 00:13:08,512 --> 00:13:14,811 That means those who are not worshiping Govinda, they are mūḍhā-mati. 194 00:13:14,812 --> 00:13:18,711 He is addressing mūḍhā-mati: “You rascal…” 195 00:13:18,712 --> 00:13:19,981 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: This verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda, 196 00:13:19,982 --> 00:13:22,651 vāsudeva sata devam, is also written by him? 197 00:13:22,652 --> 00:13:23,111 Huh? 198 00:13:23,112 --> 00:13:26,901 Vasudevaṁ-sutaṁ devaṁ kaṁsa-cāṇūra-mardanam 199 00:13:26,902 --> 00:13:30,601 devakī paramānandaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ vande jagat-gurum [?]. 200 00:13:30,602 --> 00:13:32,391 Maybe, but I do not know. 201 00:13:32,392 --> 00:13:34,991 Because they say, these mundane scholars, 202 00:13:34,992 --> 00:13:37,319 that Bhāgavata was after Śaṅkarācārya 203 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:43,381 because he did not write a commentary on Bhāgavata. 204 00:13:43,382 --> 00:13:47,021 Because there’s a mention of Kaṁsa and Cāṇūra and Vasudeva and Devakī, 205 00:13:47,022 --> 00:13:56,171 that means that Śaṅkarācārya did believe in the personal of Kṛṣṇa. 206 00:13:56,172 --> 00:14:01,302 But Vedavyāsa is after Śaṅkarācārya? 207 00:14:01,303 --> 00:14:03,532 They don’t accept it is written by Vedavyāsa. 208 00:14:03,533 --> 00:14:04,372 Huh? 209 00:14:04,373 --> 00:14:07,782 They don’t… They are such atheistic people, 210 00:14:07,783 --> 00:14:10,902 they do not accept that it is written by Vedavyāsa. 211 00:14:10,903 --> 00:14:13,392 That’s all right, but others accept it. 212 00:14:13,393 --> 00:14:17,912 Yes, the vast people do accept. 213 00:14:17,913 --> 00:14:26,782 Vedavyāsa is accepted by Śaṅkarācārya. 214 00:14:26,783 --> 00:14:31,492 Vyāsadeva. Vyāsa-guru. 215 00:14:31,493 --> 00:14:38,422 They think that some Vaiṣṇava wrote it and put the name of Vedavyāsa. 216 00:14:38,423 --> 00:14:46,472 They are so demoniac. Yes, they say like that. 217 00:14:46,473 --> 00:14:53,082 Then other ācāryas, they are also fools? 218 00:14:53,083 --> 00:15:02,902 I think they place all the other ācāryas after Śaṅkarācārya. 219 00:15:02,903 --> 00:15:10,572 Ācāryas… But their paramparā system is very old 220 00:15:10,573 --> 00:15:13,902 …Bhagavad-gītā? No. 221 00:15:13,903 --> 00:15:16,232 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: They don’t accept it as… 222 00:15:16,233 --> 00:15:19,203 They do not accept Gītā as spoken by 223 00:15:19,204 --> 00:15:22,903 some person Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago. 224 00:15:22,904 --> 00:15:29,543 Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā or not? 225 00:15:29,544 --> 00:15:32,823 They say it’s a very nice book of knowledge. 226 00:15:32,824 --> 00:15:39,293 They don’t want to pursue spiritual life. 227 00:15:39,294 --> 00:15:42,353 Then why they become authority? 228 00:15:42,354 --> 00:15:47,333 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: Yes, that is their rascaldom. 229 00:15:47,334 --> 00:15:51,763 If they do not accept authority, why they become authority? 230 00:15:51,764 --> 00:15:58,383 Who will accept them? 231 00:15:58,384 --> 00:16:02,573 If everything is depending on mental speculation, 232 00:16:02,574 --> 00:16:08,153 then why they should be accepted as authority? 233 00:16:08,154 --> 00:16:11,613 YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: That they cannot answer. 234 00:16:11,614 --> 00:16:17,323 Only insincere people, foolish people, they are misled by them. 235 00:16:17,324 --> 00:16:22,043 Otherwise I don’t think anybody even knows their philosophy. 236 00:16:22,044 --> 00:16:26,013 Everyone knows your philosophy because they see your disciples, 237 00:16:26,014 --> 00:16:32,523 and no one goes to read their books. 238 00:16:32,524 --> 00:16:38,293 Mostly I see in their books, “First edition, copies, two thousand,” 239 00:16:38,294 --> 00:16:40,773 “three thousand,” something like that. 240 00:16:40,774 --> 00:16:49,374 And you never see a second edition. 241 00:16:49,375 --> 00:16:49,376 Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com