0
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,941
MW BOM 1975-11-19 Everyone Knows Your Philosophy
1
00:00:14,942 --> 00:00:17,821
ANNOUNCER: The following is
a morning walk conversation
2
00:00:17,822 --> 00:00:23,411
with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
3
00:00:23,412 --> 00:00:46,491
recorded on the 19th of November
1975, in Bombay, India. [splice]
4
00:00:46,492 --> 00:00:49,889
Yes, Sunday, the sun is
the center, and I mean,
5
00:00:49,890 --> 00:00:54,149
that is, I recall, first sun, and
then Monday is next day,
6
00:00:54,150 --> 00:01:01,819
then Tuesday, which is next to the
earth, and Wednesday next to the sun.
7
00:01:01,820 --> 00:01:05,189
Then sun is first, then moon.
8
00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:07,379
But they say moon
is first, then sun.
9
00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:08,319
Who says?
10
00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:13,116
The scientists. No. Yes.
They say the moon is…
11
00:01:13,117 --> 00:01:15,160
DR. PATEL: So far the
distance is concerned,
12
00:01:15,161 --> 00:01:17,470
moon may be nearest.
How it is, that?
13
00:01:17,471 --> 00:01:18,560
It is so, sir.
14
00:01:18,561 --> 00:01:19,520
Huh?
15
00:01:19,521 --> 00:01:21,820
Our science says so.
Your science may not.
16
00:01:21,821 --> 00:01:25,220
And we don’t want to
clash the sciences here.
17
00:01:25,221 --> 00:01:29,970
Let us talk about
philosophy. [laughs]
18
00:01:29,971 --> 00:01:34,700
Jump over.
19
00:01:34,701 --> 00:01:39,550
Chandra is the upagraha, isn’t it?
20
00:01:39,551 --> 00:01:41,390
As guru has got many such grahas.
21
00:01:41,391 --> 00:01:44,660
It is one of the celestial planets.
22
00:01:44,661 --> 00:01:47,620
And they say there is no life.
23
00:01:47,621 --> 00:01:48,940
It is not self-luminous.
24
00:01:48,941 --> 00:01:51,220
All grahas are not self-luminous.
25
00:01:51,221 --> 00:01:56,390
When we observe in the sky,
those stars are bleeping like this.
26
00:01:56,391 --> 00:02:00,490
The grahas are straight as that,
the Sukra behind us,
27
00:02:00,491 --> 00:02:05,770
just steady light. [break]
28
00:02:05,771 --> 00:02:11,520
…philosophy is also incorrect,
there is no life after death.
29
00:02:11,521 --> 00:02:12,781
Who says so?
30
00:02:12,782 --> 00:02:17,291
Oh, so many, all Westerners.
31
00:02:17,292 --> 00:02:19,901
The Easterns… That
does not mean…
32
00:02:19,902 --> 00:02:24,321
The Eastern philosophy is only with the jāgrati stage.
33
00:02:24,322 --> 00:02:27,991
But the jīva has got three stages, and the fourth stage,
34
00:02:27,992 --> 00:02:30,431
the turīya stage, is the real stage that we understand.
35
00:02:30,432 --> 00:02:32,621
They don’t have idea
of it, unfortunately.
36
00:02:32,622 --> 00:02:36,181
So that philosophy is not
the real philosophy of life.
37
00:02:36,182 --> 00:02:38,811
Life as a whole should
have its own philosophy.
38
00:02:38,812 --> 00:02:43,991
They don’t understand that there is anything beyond
the jāgrati stage.
39
00:02:43,992 --> 00:02:49,961
But then there is a svapna stage, there
is a sleep stage and the turīya stage.
40
00:02:49,962 --> 00:02:53,601
In that if I am wrong
you may correct me, sir.
41
00:02:53,602 --> 00:02:55,601
You cannot be corrected.
42
00:02:55,602 --> 00:02:57,421
I cannot be wrong, say that.
43
00:02:57,422 --> 00:02:59,111
No, I cannot correct you.
44
00:02:59,112 --> 00:03:00,481
You?
45
00:03:00,482 --> 00:03:04,171
You cannot be correct…? Why
I should not be corrected?
46
00:03:04,172 --> 00:03:10,471
Because the philosophy must encompass
the whole life, not a part of it.
47
00:03:10,472 --> 00:03:16,142
All Western philosophers, only
except Schopenhauer and Eckhart,
48
00:03:16,143 --> 00:03:20,042
they only thought
about the waking stage.
49
00:03:20,043 --> 00:03:22,922
They have never thought about the
dream and the deep sleep stage
50
00:03:22,923 --> 00:03:25,082
and the stage beyond the three.
51
00:03:25,083 --> 00:03:31,282
None of them, excepting
Eckhart of Germany.
52
00:03:31,283 --> 00:03:34,662
So the Western
philosophers are all wrong
53
00:03:34,663 --> 00:03:37,492
or partially true [break]
54
00:03:37,493 --> 00:03:42,892
The Western philosophers have never
thought about the three other stages,
55
00:03:42,893 --> 00:03:44,842
none of them. [break]
56
00:03:44,843 --> 00:03:53,062
…philosophy rejects any
philosophy based on thinking.
57
00:03:53,063 --> 00:03:56,372
But you see thinking is an apparatus
which takes you beyond thinking.
58
00:03:56,373 --> 00:03:57,302
That is another.
59
00:03:57,303 --> 00:03:59,092
That takes you beyond thinking.
60
00:03:59,093 --> 00:04:03,952
You cannot go beyond thinking
without thinking to be taken as a fact.
61
00:04:03,953 --> 00:04:07,942
But thinking must be
intelligent thinking. [splice]
62
00:04:07,943 --> 00:04:11,712
under the direction of intelligence. Buddhi [splice]
63
00:04:11,713 --> 00:04:17,132
are separate arrangement,
although they are one.
64
00:04:17,133 --> 00:04:19,663
They are the different
facets of the same
65
00:04:19,664 --> 00:04:24,683
internal organ as a whole.
[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya [break]
66
00:04:24,684 --> 00:04:31,283
…set is there, but beyond that
mental stage there is intellect.
67
00:04:31,284 --> 00:04:34,763
Beyond intellect there is soul.
68
00:04:34,764 --> 00:04:39,133
To go beyond intellect
for a body conscious ego,
69
00:04:39,134 --> 00:04:43,943
the ego must dissolve and find itself to be a jīva,
70
00:04:43,944 --> 00:04:47,673
and then he travels further
up to find his own identity
71
00:04:47,674 --> 00:04:49,813
and his own relation with God.
72
00:04:49,814 --> 00:04:52,993
Before, I mean, mind is one,
you cannot go beyond it.
73
00:04:52,994 --> 00:04:56,063
That is what my conjecture.
I may be wrong for all that.
74
00:04:56,064 --> 00:04:59,583
One has to go beyond the
mind, but those who are
75
00:04:59,584 --> 00:05:04,353
stuck up with the
mind, they are useless.
76
00:05:04,354 --> 00:05:09,563
So the Western philosophers,
they are stuck up with the mind.
77
00:05:09,564 --> 00:05:11,603
That is the defect [break]
78
00:05:11,604 --> 00:05:17,333
…bhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā
mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [?].
79
00:05:17,334 --> 00:05:29,533
Manorathena, mental
concoction, asataḥ.
80
00:05:29,534 --> 00:05:36,763
Western philosophers, they take the
mind as the soul [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
81
00:05:36,764 --> 00:05:38,523
Hm? Yes.
82
00:05:38,524 --> 00:05:42,374
And the Communists think even the
matter is more important than the mind.
83
00:05:42,375 --> 00:05:46,274
What do you call?
Dialectical materialism,
84
00:05:46,275 --> 00:05:51,084
that the matter
produces consciousness.
85
00:05:51,085 --> 00:05:54,634
It is not the consciousness which,
I mean, collects matter around it.
86
00:05:54,635 --> 00:05:56,074
That is their philosophy.
87
00:05:56,075 --> 00:06:01,264
That is this dialectical materialism.
88
00:06:01,265 --> 00:06:02,584
They are absolutely wrong.
89
00:06:02,585 --> 00:06:06,894
They are even further down
than the Western philosophers,
90
00:06:06,895 --> 00:06:09,804
mental philosophers.
91
00:06:09,805 --> 00:06:16,294
[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa [break]
…is already mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā.
92
00:06:16,295 --> 00:06:20,424
Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ
93
00:06:20,425 --> 00:06:22,854
manaḥ manasas tu parā buddhir… [Bg. 3.42].
94
00:06:22,855 --> 00:06:24,584
Buddhi tu… Paraṁ buddhva [?]? [splice]
95
00:06:24,585 --> 00:06:31,544
That mind has to… I mean, isn’t
it out for itself that it is false?
96
00:06:31,545 --> 00:06:34,304
That comes to that. Not false.
97
00:06:34,305 --> 00:06:39,124
I mean false so far as
higher category is concerned, the jīva.
98
00:06:39,125 --> 00:06:44,714
Nothing is false, but
there are different steps.
99
00:06:44,715 --> 00:06:53,334
One step is important than the
other, but they are not false.
100
00:06:53,335 --> 00:07:00,135
Just like the water, the sand,
then earth, then the building.
101
00:07:00,136 --> 00:07:03,655
You cannot construct
a building here.
102
00:07:03,656 --> 00:07:10,475
So these are different
stages of reality.
103
00:07:10,476 --> 00:07:19,775
[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
104
00:07:19,776 --> 00:07:21,855
…is taken from the earth.
105
00:07:21,856 --> 00:07:24,255
There is no doubt about it.
106
00:07:24,256 --> 00:07:30,465
Why the scientists cannot take?
107
00:07:30,466 --> 00:07:34,185
This is a fact, that there is aroma,
108
00:07:34,186 --> 00:07:38,205
and the flower has taken
the aroma from the earth.
109
00:07:38,206 --> 00:07:40,495
But why the scientists cannot take?
110
00:07:40,496 --> 00:07:43,025
They can make
chemicals, the flavors.
111
00:07:43,026 --> 00:07:47,615
They can make flavors,
aromas, from chemicals.
112
00:07:47,616 --> 00:07:48,705
As good?
113
00:07:48,706 --> 00:07:52,345
No [laughter]
114
00:07:52,346 --> 00:08:03,876
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: They make a
flavor and then say it’s a rose flavor.
115
00:08:03,877 --> 00:08:09,286
That is also not all kinds of flavors.
116
00:08:09,287 --> 00:08:11,266
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: I think if
they want to produce rose flavor
117
00:08:11,267 --> 00:08:14,256
they must use the roses
somehow or other.
118
00:08:14,257 --> 00:08:16,516
I don’t think they can just produce.
119
00:08:16,517 --> 00:08:17,576
GOPĀLA KṚṢṆA:
They use a little bit.
120
00:08:17,577 --> 00:08:20,446
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: Yes.
121
00:08:20,447 --> 00:08:22,136
They must use.
122
00:08:22,137 --> 00:08:25,966
They are taking
chemicals, making flavor,
123
00:08:25,967 --> 00:08:30,746
and the flower is coming
out without any chemical.
124
00:08:30,747 --> 00:08:39,456
So who is more artist,
better artist? [break]
125
00:08:39,457 --> 00:08:41,546
…they will wilt and die.
126
00:08:41,547 --> 00:08:42,386
Hm?
127
00:08:42,387 --> 00:08:45,256
These flowers, they
will wilt and die,
128
00:08:45,257 --> 00:08:50,516
but they can make flowers that
will not die, will not wilt [laughter]
129
00:08:50,517 --> 00:08:52,566
Of course, they have no smell.
130
00:08:52,567 --> 00:08:59,176
Therefore they make without smell [break]
…earth is this side and moon is this side,
131
00:08:59,177 --> 00:09:03,277
then which is first?
132
00:09:03,278 --> 00:09:07,127
Both of them are both sides.
133
00:09:07,128 --> 00:09:14,317
The sun is larger in the sky, so that
means it is nearer to the earth?
134
00:09:14,318 --> 00:09:18,437
Yes. Should be.
135
00:09:18,438 --> 00:09:25,207
Because you calculate about
the stars, very, very far away.
136
00:09:25,208 --> 00:09:26,807
Is it not? Oh, yes.
137
00:09:26,808 --> 00:09:29,647
Then which is smaller
is far away [break]
138
00:09:29,648 --> 00:09:31,637
YAŚOMAT-NANDANA: …systems
are bigger than the smaller ones?
139
00:09:31,638 --> 00:09:33,157
Hm?
140
00:09:33,158 --> 00:09:34,737
The upper planetary systems,
141
00:09:34,738 --> 00:09:42,527
are they bigger than
the lower ones?
142
00:09:42,528 --> 00:09:44,617
sun is bigger than the
earth, the moon is bigger…
143
00:09:44,618 --> 00:09:54,807
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes, there
is measurement [break]
144
00:09:54,808 --> 00:09:57,267
JAYAPATAKA: Some
people say that
145
00:09:57,268 --> 00:10:01,487
“You are coming to India for
preaching, but we Indians,
146
00:10:01,488 --> 00:10:04,547
we already know all the,
about Kṛṣṇa and Rāma.
147
00:10:04,548 --> 00:10:11,937
Why don’t… You should be preaching in
the West, where the people don’t know.”
148
00:10:11,938 --> 00:10:16,217
But you know from
the Western people.
149
00:10:16,218 --> 00:10:20,668
They are not… They are
imitating Western people.
150
00:10:20,669 --> 00:10:22,228
You know from the
Western people;
151
00:10:22,229 --> 00:10:27,628
therefore you have to learn from
this Western people this also.
152
00:10:27,629 --> 00:10:29,829
They are learning everything
else from the Western people,
153
00:10:29,830 --> 00:10:30,989
so why not… PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
154
00:10:30,990 --> 00:10:36,859
ŚRĪDHARA: Everyone in India knows the līlā of Kṛṣṇa,
but the science of Kṛṣṇa,
155
00:10:36,860 --> 00:10:40,179
that they have forgotten.
156
00:10:40,180 --> 00:10:45,889
They know līlā of Kṛṣṇa but they do not know Kṛṣṇa.
157
00:10:45,890 --> 00:10:49,949
Huh? Who was…?
158
00:10:49,950 --> 00:10:55,839
You were telling that Mr. Bajaj, he wants to
take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa without Kṛṣṇa.
159
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,459
Yes.
160
00:10:58,460 --> 00:11:02,749
Then how you will take this
instruction when Kṛṣṇa says,
161
00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:07,119
man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]?
162
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,709
If they do not take Kṛṣṇa, then
how this instruction will be taken?
163
00:11:11,710 --> 00:11:13,559
It can’t be.
164
00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:22,179
Well, rasa-līlā is more important than those instructions
[Prabhupāda laughs]
165
00:11:22,180 --> 00:11:25,849
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: Actually,
the real scholars of Bhagavad-gītā,
166
00:11:25,850 --> 00:11:30,879
they admit that later on this Bhagavad-gītā came out,
167
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,999
which was stressing more on bhakti.
168
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,260
Later on. Later on.
169
00:11:36,261 --> 00:11:39,420
These scholars, these mundane scholars,
those who have studied Bhagavad-gītā,
170
00:11:39,421 --> 00:11:46,310
they accept that Bhagavad-gītā
is based around bhakti principle.
171
00:11:46,311 --> 00:11:48,530
So how it came later on?
172
00:11:48,531 --> 00:11:51,670
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: That
they are rascal. That they don’t.
173
00:11:51,671 --> 00:11:54,360
And what was the beginning?
174
00:11:54,361 --> 00:11:55,830
All these Vedas and everything.
175
00:11:55,831 --> 00:12:02,140
No, bhagavad-gītā? They say, “later on.”
176
00:12:02,141 --> 00:12:02,794
Who was the first…
177
00:12:02,795 --> 00:12:04,720
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA: He
says that it was the Vaisnavites
178
00:12:04,721 --> 00:12:11,170
who introduced Bhagavad-gītā.
179
00:12:11,171 --> 00:12:15,500
Then why Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā?
180
00:12:15,501 --> 00:12:16,320
He is not a Vaiṣṇava.
181
00:12:16,321 --> 00:12:17,960
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
That they cannot answer.
182
00:12:17,961 --> 00:12:21,670
PRABHUPĀDA:
Then they’re foolish.
183
00:12:21,671 --> 00:12:23,020
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
That they cannot answer.
184
00:12:23,021 --> 00:12:27,520
Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā.
185
00:12:27,521 --> 00:12:34,960
Śaṅkarācārya accepted
Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord.
186
00:12:34,961 --> 00:12:40,220
Sa bhagavān svaya kṛṣṇaḥ [?].
187
00:12:40,221 --> 00:12:42,511
He has written… YAŚOMATĪ-
NANDANA: It is like that.
188
00:12:42,512 --> 00:12:48,231
They think that Śaṅkarācārya also liked Bhagavad-gītā,
189
00:12:48,232 --> 00:12:51,341
but the personal Kṛṣṇa
was not very important.
190
00:12:51,342 --> 00:12:55,131
No. According to his bhāṣya, they think like that.
191
00:12:55,132 --> 00:13:01,861
No, he has written
many prayers on Kṛṣṇa.
192
00:13:01,862 --> 00:13:08,511
Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ
bhaja govindaṁ mūḍhā-mate [?].
193
00:13:08,512 --> 00:13:14,811
That means those who are not worshiping Govinda,
they are mūḍhā-mati.
194
00:13:14,812 --> 00:13:18,711
He is addressing mūḍhā-mati: “You rascal…”
195
00:13:18,712 --> 00:13:19,981
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
This verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda,
196
00:13:19,982 --> 00:13:22,651
vāsudeva sata devam, is also written by him?
197
00:13:22,652 --> 00:13:23,111
Huh?
198
00:13:23,112 --> 00:13:26,901
Vasudevaṁ-sutaṁ devaṁ kaṁsa-cāṇūra-mardanam
199
00:13:26,902 --> 00:13:30,601
devakī paramānandaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ vande jagat-gurum [?].
200
00:13:30,602 --> 00:13:32,391
Maybe, but I do not know.
201
00:13:32,392 --> 00:13:34,991
Because they say, these
mundane scholars,
202
00:13:34,992 --> 00:13:37,319
that Bhāgavata was
after Śaṅkarācārya
203
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:43,381
because he did not write a
commentary on Bhāgavata.
204
00:13:43,382 --> 00:13:47,021
Because there’s a mention of Kaṁsa
and Cāṇūra and Vasudeva and Devakī,
205
00:13:47,022 --> 00:13:56,171
that means that Śaṅkarācārya did
believe in the personal of Kṛṣṇa.
206
00:13:56,172 --> 00:14:01,302
But Vedavyāsa is
after Śaṅkarācārya?
207
00:14:01,303 --> 00:14:03,532
They don’t accept it is
written by Vedavyāsa.
208
00:14:03,533 --> 00:14:04,372
Huh?
209
00:14:04,373 --> 00:14:07,782
They don’t… They are
such atheistic people,
210
00:14:07,783 --> 00:14:10,902
they do not accept that it
is written by Vedavyāsa.
211
00:14:10,903 --> 00:14:13,392
That’s all right, but
others accept it.
212
00:14:13,393 --> 00:14:17,912
Yes, the vast people do accept.
213
00:14:17,913 --> 00:14:26,782
Vedavyāsa is accepted
by Śaṅkarācārya.
214
00:14:26,783 --> 00:14:31,492
Vyāsadeva. Vyāsa-guru.
215
00:14:31,493 --> 00:14:38,422
They think that some Vaiṣṇava wrote
it and put the name of Vedavyāsa.
216
00:14:38,423 --> 00:14:46,472
They are so demoniac.
Yes, they say like that.
217
00:14:46,473 --> 00:14:53,082
Then other ācāryas, they are also fools?
218
00:14:53,083 --> 00:15:02,902
I think they place all the other ācāryas after Śaṅkarācārya.
219
00:15:02,903 --> 00:15:10,572
Ācāryas… But their
paramparā system is very old
220
00:15:10,573 --> 00:15:13,902
…Bhagavad-gītā? No.
221
00:15:13,903 --> 00:15:16,232
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
They don’t accept it as…
222
00:15:16,233 --> 00:15:19,203
They do not accept Gītā as spoken by
223
00:15:19,204 --> 00:15:22,903
some person Kṛṣṇa five
thousand years ago.
224
00:15:22,904 --> 00:15:29,543
Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā or not?
225
00:15:29,544 --> 00:15:32,823
They say it’s a very nice
book of knowledge.
226
00:15:32,824 --> 00:15:39,293
They don’t want to
pursue spiritual life.
227
00:15:39,294 --> 00:15:42,353
Then why they become authority?
228
00:15:42,354 --> 00:15:47,333
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
Yes, that is their rascaldom.
229
00:15:47,334 --> 00:15:51,763
If they do not accept authority,
why they become authority?
230
00:15:51,764 --> 00:15:58,383
Who will accept them?
231
00:15:58,384 --> 00:16:02,573
If everything is depending
on mental speculation,
232
00:16:02,574 --> 00:16:08,153
then why they should be
accepted as authority?
233
00:16:08,154 --> 00:16:11,613
YAŚOMATĪ-NANDANA:
That they cannot answer.
234
00:16:11,614 --> 00:16:17,323
Only insincere people, foolish
people, they are misled by them.
235
00:16:17,324 --> 00:16:22,043
Otherwise I don’t think anybody
even knows their philosophy.
236
00:16:22,044 --> 00:16:26,013
Everyone knows your philosophy
because they see your disciples,
237
00:16:26,014 --> 00:16:32,523
and no one goes
to read their books.
238
00:16:32,524 --> 00:16:38,293
Mostly I see in their books, “First
edition, copies, two thousand,”
239
00:16:38,294 --> 00:16:40,773
“three thousand,”
something like that.
240
00:16:40,774 --> 00:16:49,374
And you never see a
second edition.
241
00:16:49,375 --> 00:16:49,376
Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com