0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,495 MW CHI 1975-07-09 All-isms is Equal to Animalism 1 00:00:01,496 --> 00:00:04,255 ANNOUNCER: The following is a morning walk conversation 2 00:00:04,256 --> 00:00:09,835 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:09,836 --> 00:00:24,435 recorded on July 9th, 1975, in Chicago, Illinois. 4 00:00:24,436 --> 00:00:36,165 PRABHUPĀDA: Everyone is hovering on the mental plane. [break] 5 00:00:36,166 --> 00:00:41,195 …the principle of Baha’i religion? 6 00:00:41,196 --> 00:00:43,855 JAYATĪRTHA: It was founded in Persia. 7 00:00:43,856 --> 00:00:44,455 Huh? 8 00:00:44,456 --> 00:00:46,065 It was founded in Persia. 9 00:00:46,066 --> 00:00:48,805 Oh. 10 00:00:48,806 --> 00:00:54,956 It’s a hodge-podge… Hodge-podge principle. 11 00:00:54,957 --> 00:01:00,136 JAGADĪŚA: They think that everyone is evolving, that after taking this human life, 12 00:01:00,137 --> 00:01:02,566 you have to go to heaven. 13 00:01:02,567 --> 00:01:03,646 Huh? 14 00:01:03,647 --> 00:01:06,726 After taking this human life, you have to go to heaven. 15 00:01:06,727 --> 00:01:11,956 That’s the next stage, even if you’re the most sinful of all sinners. 16 00:01:11,957 --> 00:01:15,216 Oh. Even one is sinful, he will also go? 17 00:01:15,217 --> 00:01:17,226 Yes. 18 00:01:17,227 --> 00:01:22,606 Because they say that God is all-merciful, therefore… 19 00:01:22,607 --> 00:01:28,506 You can do whatever you like. 20 00:01:28,507 --> 00:01:35,106 BRAHMĀNANDA: God becomes the order-supplier. 21 00:01:35,107 --> 00:01:38,186 They have a big temple. 22 00:01:38,187 --> 00:01:39,806 This is Baha’i temple? 23 00:01:39,807 --> 00:01:42,406 No, no, it’s back the other way. 24 00:01:42,407 --> 00:01:44,176 It’s much bigger than this building? 25 00:01:44,177 --> 00:01:49,636 Yes, it’s quite a… [break] 26 00:01:49,637 --> 00:01:57,396 So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. 27 00:01:57,397 --> 00:02:02,556 Will these people accept this? 28 00:02:02,557 --> 00:02:03,256 Hm? 29 00:02:03,257 --> 00:02:08,676 They won’t like to. 30 00:02:08,677 --> 00:02:10,236 Then? 31 00:02:10,237 --> 00:02:13,017 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: By our preaching we have to make them accept it. 32 00:02:13,018 --> 00:02:18,987 Yes. Actually that’s a fact. 33 00:02:18,988 --> 00:02:20,977 SUDĀMĀ: We have to set an example for them. 34 00:02:20,978 --> 00:02:21,447 Hmm? 35 00:02:21,448 --> 00:02:23,927 We have to set an example for them to see. 36 00:02:23,928 --> 00:02:25,297 What is the example? 37 00:02:25,298 --> 00:02:28,497 That this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, actually it does work, 38 00:02:28,498 --> 00:02:30,327 it does make us purified. 39 00:02:30,328 --> 00:02:37,387 “No. It works with you. It doesn’t work with me,” he will say. 40 00:02:37,388 --> 00:02:40,017 You have to prove that they are animals. 41 00:02:40,018 --> 00:02:41,917 How you will prove it? 42 00:02:41,918 --> 00:02:44,177 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: By showing the activities of the animals 43 00:02:44,178 --> 00:02:45,537 and their activities to be the same. 44 00:02:45,538 --> 00:02:50,937 Yes. 45 00:02:50,938 --> 00:02:54,987 They have to judge that “What is the difference between 46 00:02:54,988 --> 00:03:02,717 animal’s activities and our so- called civilized man’s activities?” 47 00:03:02,718 --> 00:03:05,737 You compare them to the animals, then they become insulted. 48 00:03:05,738 --> 00:03:09,037 But he is animal. 49 00:03:09,038 --> 00:03:14,867 That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. 50 00:03:14,868 --> 00:03:19,998 But does it mean that I shall say that “You are very honest?” 51 00:03:19,999 --> 00:03:27,898 A thief shall be called thief. 52 00:03:27,899 --> 00:03:31,548 That is natural. 53 00:03:31,549 --> 00:03:36,898 If you call a Negro, “You black,” he will be angry. 54 00:03:36,899 --> 00:03:38,598 But he is black. 55 00:03:38,599 --> 00:03:54,428 So… So that is another thing. 56 00:03:54,429 --> 00:04:06,638 When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. 57 00:04:06,639 --> 00:04:13,908 Why a reasonable man will not accept that, hm? 58 00:04:13,909 --> 00:04:17,958 In that case also, he is animal. 59 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:24,589 Because they say, “Man is rational animal.” 60 00:04:24,590 --> 00:04:31,349 So if you are devoid of rationality then again you are animal. 61 00:04:31,350 --> 00:04:35,669 So how he will avoid, that he is not animal? 62 00:04:35,670 --> 00:04:37,759 SATSVARŪPA: Many people today are willing to accept that. 63 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,299 They say, “Yes, we’re animals. We should enjoy our animal nature.” 64 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:46,909 Yes, so go on enjoying. 65 00:04:46,910 --> 00:04:55,499 Then don’t talk of this “How, what to do, criminal?” 66 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:58,189 Go on, animal. 67 00:04:58,190 --> 00:05:05,539 Then why you are anxious to avoid criminality? Hmm? 68 00:05:05,540 --> 00:05:14,829 The dogs, hogs, they are not anxious to avoid criminality. 69 00:05:14,830 --> 00:05:19,589 Why you are trying to avoid criminality? 70 00:05:19,590 --> 00:05:23,509 Remain animal. 71 00:05:23,510 --> 00:05:26,839 Hmm? 72 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:34,269 When the dog goes left to the right, it is not criminality, 73 00:05:34,270 --> 00:05:43,219 but why do you prosecute a man when he drives from the left to the right? 74 00:05:43,220 --> 00:05:45,210 You remain dog. 75 00:05:45,211 --> 00:05:49,060 “Why you charge me criminality? 76 00:05:49,061 --> 00:05:52,130 Hm? 77 00:05:52,131 --> 00:05:54,870 I am dog, sir.” 78 00:05:54,871 --> 00:05:59,400 Tell him. [laughter] 79 00:05:59,401 --> 00:06:11,380 Go to the court and say, “I am dog, sir. Excuse me, I am dog.” 80 00:06:11,381 --> 00:06:15,730 Why don’t you say that? 81 00:06:15,731 --> 00:06:17,820 Do you say like that? 82 00:06:17,821 --> 00:06:25,860 When you are arrested and charged in the court, you can plead, “I am dog, sir. 83 00:06:25,861 --> 00:06:29,880 Excuse me.” 84 00:06:29,881 --> 00:06:34,030 Why it is not excused? He is punished, why? 85 00:06:34,031 --> 00:06:36,300 The human body means you have responsibility. 86 00:06:36,301 --> 00:06:41,980 Yes. And they say, “Whatever you do, it is all right.” 87 00:06:41,981 --> 00:06:45,660 In the human body you cannot do like that. 88 00:06:45,661 --> 00:06:57,070 If in the ordinary court it is so strict, so what will be in the court of the God? 89 00:06:57,071 --> 00:07:00,390 Just like they have laws, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa has. 90 00:07:00,391 --> 00:07:05,450 Well, laws come… Where from the laws come? It comes from Kṛṣṇa. 91 00:07:05,451 --> 00:07:08,090 Janmādyasya yataḥ [Vedānta-sūtra, 1.1.2]. 92 00:07:08,091 --> 00:07:18,221 Everything, whatever you see, it has come from God. 93 00:07:18,222 --> 00:07:23,361 Otherwise where you get the idea? 94 00:07:23,362 --> 00:07:28,461 That is the definition in the Vedānta. 95 00:07:28,462 --> 00:07:41,551 Whatever you have experienced, that is coming from God, original idea from God. 96 00:07:41,552 --> 00:07:47,111 Janmādyasya [Vedānta-sūtra, 1.1.2] 97 00:07:47,112 --> 00:07:53,791 In the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is said, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. 98 00:07:53,792 --> 00:08:05,473 Whatever you see, you perceive, you experience, the original is from Kṛṣṇa. 99 00:08:05,474 --> 00:08:18,371 [pause] 100 00:08:18,372 --> 00:08:22,291 So we shall go? [break] 101 00:08:22,292 --> 00:08:26,581 …them directly that “You are animal.” 102 00:08:26,582 --> 00:08:35,471 And let him go to the court and we shall prove that he is animal. [break] 103 00:08:35,472 --> 00:08:42,741 …then he is in bodily concept of life, charge him that “You are animal. 104 00:08:42,742 --> 00:08:54,101 If you think it is defamation, let us go to the court.” [break] 105 00:08:54,102 --> 00:08:58,991 …these isms, nationalism, Communism, socialism, 106 00:08:58,992 --> 00:09:11,221 this… These are all animalism, nothing but animalism. [break] 107 00:09:11,222 --> 00:09:17,931 …big fish within the water, they are also eating the small fish, 108 00:09:17,932 --> 00:09:26,591 and these persons are engaged, the same business. 109 00:09:26,592 --> 00:09:28,962 Like a big fish, bigger fish. 110 00:09:28,963 --> 00:09:34,532 Big fish is expert. He can go within the water and eat. 111 00:09:34,533 --> 00:09:37,382 He has to make some tackle. 112 00:09:37,383 --> 00:09:44,432 He is less than fish. [laughter] 113 00:09:44,433 --> 00:09:46,382 And when he catches it, he eats it. 114 00:09:46,383 --> 00:09:47,272 Huh? 115 00:09:47,273 --> 00:09:48,762 After catching, he eats it. 116 00:09:48,763 --> 00:09:54,612 No, the fish immediately. He has to cook, he has to…, another thing. 117 00:09:54,613 --> 00:10:03,772 That means it is not his food. Artificially, he is eating. [break] [splice] 118 00:10:03,773 --> 00:10:07,082 DEVOTEE (1): …why do some of them carry these sticks. 119 00:10:07,083 --> 00:10:08,372 Sticks? 120 00:10:08,373 --> 00:10:10,802 TRIPURĀRI: Daṇḍa. 121 00:10:10,803 --> 00:10:30,132 To drive away dogs. [laughter] [break] 122 00:10:30,133 --> 00:10:33,363 …species of human life… Different spec … 123 00:10:33,364 --> 00:10:36,613 The 400,000 different species of human life? 124 00:10:36,614 --> 00:10:38,813 There’s one place in which you mention that 125 00:10:38,814 --> 00:10:48,073 different persons like carpenter or different tradesmen are different species. Is that…? 126 00:10:48,074 --> 00:10:51,063 No, no. 127 00:10:51,064 --> 00:10:52,623 What are the… What’s the… 128 00:10:52,624 --> 00:10:57,833 That is division. 129 00:10:57,834 --> 00:11:00,583 Varṇa, that is called varṇa. 130 00:11:00,584 --> 00:11:04,373 So that has nothing to do with species. 131 00:11:04,374 --> 00:11:08,123 Species is like Negro or… 132 00:11:08,124 --> 00:11:19,113 Yes. [break] 133 00:11:19,114 --> 00:11:24,073 …gods are also included in this human species. 134 00:11:24,074 --> 00:11:32,063 Different types of… Kinnara, 400,000. 135 00:11:32,064 --> 00:11:33,813 Also different planets? 136 00:11:33,814 --> 00:11:49,033 Yes. 137 00:11:49,034 --> 00:11:53,423 But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. 138 00:11:53,424 --> 00:11:59,833 It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. 139 00:11:59,834 --> 00:12:04,484 Everyone can. [break] 140 00:12:04,485 --> 00:12:15,154 …yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. [break] 141 00:12:15,155 --> 00:12:17,424 This is the power of God. 142 00:12:17,425 --> 00:12:25,284 He can deliver anyone without any consideration. 143 00:12:25,285 --> 00:12:31,764 Therefore paṇḍita is sama-darśinaḥ, he does not make these divisions. 144 00:12:31,765 --> 00:12:35,244 He sees that “He is spirit soul. 145 00:12:35,245 --> 00:12:40,244 So let him be delivered.” That’s all. 146 00:12:40,245 --> 00:12:43,554 Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśināh [Bg. 5.18]. 147 00:12:43,555 --> 00:12:48,064 Materially there is division. 148 00:12:48,065 --> 00:12:52,034 He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. 149 00:12:52,035 --> 00:12:54,684 This is material. 150 00:12:54,685 --> 00:13:09,694 Spiritually, there is no division. One. [break] 151 00:13:09,695 --> 00:13:19,554 They make, what is called, spiritual division also. 152 00:13:19,555 --> 00:13:23,774 That is their foolishness. 153 00:13:23,775 --> 00:13:28,314 Spiritually there is no division. 154 00:13:28,315 --> 00:13:44,694 samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad- bhaktiṁ labhate param [Bg. 18.54] 155 00:13:44,695 --> 00:13:56,764 Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad- bhaktiṁ labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. 156 00:13:56,765 --> 00:14:03,496 [indistinct] Jaya. 157 00:14:03,497 --> 00:14:03,498 Subtitles by 80.1.251.112, Causelessmercy.com