0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,974 MW LA 1976-06-03 Death and Dreams 1 00:00:00,975 --> 00:00:03,304 ANNOUNCER: Next is a morning walk conversation, 2 00:00:03,305 --> 00:00:08,550 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:08,551 --> 00:00:20,138 recorded on June 3rd, 1976, in Los Angeles. 4 00:00:20,139 --> 00:00:22,066 RĀMEŚVARA: Yesterday you were explaining in your garden 5 00:00:22,067 --> 00:00:30,792 to that priest that Kṛṣṇa… He says… Kṛṣṇa says, “I am the father of all living entities.” 6 00:00:30,793 --> 00:00:34,571 And you were saying, “Who can challenge this or deny it?” 7 00:00:34,572 --> 00:00:38,069 Now someone can say that there is contradiction, 8 00:00:38,070 --> 00:00:43,718 if there is some contradiction in Kṛṣṇa’s statement, therefore [indistinct]… 9 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:49,161 PRABHUPĀDA: Who can contradict this? That… That is my challenge. 10 00:00:49,162 --> 00:00:52,558 The contradiction is not valid. 11 00:00:52,559 --> 00:00:54,567 Who can contradict it? 12 00:00:54,568 --> 00:00:59,906 That is my challenge. 13 00:00:59,907 --> 00:01:05,065 Well, ah… Say, in some philosophy… 14 00:01:05,066 --> 00:01:08,415 Just like a father: 15 00:01:08,416 --> 00:01:12,690 A real father can say, “I am the father.” 16 00:01:12,691 --> 00:01:14,756 Who can challenge? 17 00:01:14,757 --> 00:01:17,885 Father is one. 18 00:01:17,886 --> 00:01:22,050 Who can? Nobody can say “No, you are not father; he’s father;” no. 19 00:01:22,051 --> 00:01:26,297 The real father is father. 20 00:01:26,298 --> 00:01:30,011 Father cannot be replaced. 21 00:01:30,012 --> 00:01:31,065 - No. - Yes. 22 00:01:31,066 --> 00:01:34,865 Suppose real father says, “I am the father of this boy.” 23 00:01:34,866 --> 00:01:37,420 Who will challenge it? 24 00:01:37,421 --> 00:01:41,706 - Someone who does not believe my father. - That… That means he’s a rascal. 25 00:01:41,707 --> 00:01:46,014 But father cannot be changed. 26 00:01:46,015 --> 00:01:50,004 He does not know; he challenges; that’s all. 27 00:01:50,005 --> 00:01:51,905 How the father can be changed? 28 00:01:51,906 --> 00:01:56,847 Father is one. 29 00:01:56,848 --> 00:01:59,631 We say that Kṛṣṇa is all good. 30 00:01:59,632 --> 00:02:01,048 Yes. 31 00:02:01,049 --> 00:02:03,593 And then the materialist says, 32 00:02:03,594 --> 00:02:07,084 “If Kṛṣṇa is all good, then how is there any evil?” 33 00:02:07,085 --> 00:02:09,365 Evil is you. 34 00:02:09,366 --> 00:02:11,194 - But everything comes from Kṛṣṇa. - Yes. 35 00:02:11,195 --> 00:02:12,408 Everything comes from…. Yes. 36 00:02:12,409 --> 00:02:15,039 If… You have created a situation. 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:21,554 So, for your satisfaction, Kṛṣṇa has given you the chance, but that is evil: 38 00:02:21,555 --> 00:02:25,388 What you have created. 39 00:02:25,389 --> 00:02:28,428 But I have this propensity because I am part of Kṛṣṇa. 40 00:02:28,429 --> 00:02:29,553 Yes. 41 00:02:29,554 --> 00:02:33,339 When [you] come under māyā, you have got so many propensities. 42 00:02:33,340 --> 00:02:38,418 As soon as you disobey Kṛṣṇa, the māyā is there. 43 00:02:38,419 --> 00:02:41,896 kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare [nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare] [Prema-vivarta] 44 00:02:41,897 --> 00:02:42,799 Immediately. 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,202 Just like darkness and light. 46 00:02:47,203 --> 00:02:51,028 As soon as you give up light, you come to darkness. 47 00:02:51,029 --> 00:02:54,065 There is no second alternative. 48 00:02:54,066 --> 00:02:56,672 Kṛṣṇa is the friend of everyone. 49 00:02:56,673 --> 00:02:58,867 - Yes. - So why does He allow me 50 00:02:58,868 --> 00:03:01,026 - to have this independence? - No, that is His…. 51 00:03:01,027 --> 00:03:01,772 Why not? 52 00:03:01,773 --> 00:03:02,786 - Because it is not good for me. - Then… Then… 53 00:03:02,787 --> 00:03:05,526 Then you are not perfectly Kṛṣṇa’s aṁśa. 54 00:03:05,527 --> 00:03:07,987 Kṛṣṇa has got independence. 55 00:03:07,988 --> 00:03:12,999 You see one son is born, even a father has got a black spot here, 56 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,305 sometimes the son has a black… 57 00:03:17,306 --> 00:03:19,645 But if it’s not good for me, if I will misuse it, 58 00:03:19,646 --> 00:03:21,917 - why would Kṛṣṇa give it to me anyway? - Yes, therefore the demand is 59 00:03:21,918 --> 00:03:26,010 “You surrender, rascal; you are suffering; you surrender. 60 00:03:26,011 --> 00:03:28,632 That is your good…” 61 00:03:28,633 --> 00:03:29,972 Therefore He comes. 62 00:03:29,973 --> 00:03:31,857 He loves His sons: 63 00:03:31,858 --> 00:03:34,597 “You rascals, why you are creating plans? 64 00:03:34,598 --> 00:03:36,054 Come here! 65 00:03:36,055 --> 00:03:38,490 Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ… [Bg. 18.66]; 66 00:03:38,491 --> 00:03:42,314 I shall give you all comfort.” 67 00:03:42,315 --> 00:03:44,716 Kṛṣṇa knows everything in the past, 68 00:03:44,717 --> 00:03:47,273 - and everything in the future. - Yes. 69 00:03:47,274 --> 00:03:52,033 So when Kṛṣṇa… Kṛṣṇa knows that I will misuse my independence. 70 00:03:52,034 --> 00:03:54,170 But still He gives me independence. 71 00:03:54,171 --> 00:03:57,504 That is Kṛṣṇa’s mercy. 72 00:03:57,505 --> 00:03:58,764 - Even though it is bad for me. PUṢṬA KṚṢṆA: Hey wait… 73 00:03:58,765 --> 00:04:01,602 You say Kṛṣṇa knows that you are going to misuse your independence? 74 00:04:01,603 --> 00:04:04,811 Because He knows everything [splice] and everything in the future. 75 00:04:04,812 --> 00:04:07,588 So He must… Kṛṣṇa is all… all-knowing. 76 00:04:07,589 --> 00:04:16,303 This [indistinct] future, means that I… Just like a father knows the… how the child is. 77 00:04:16,304 --> 00:04:21,042 Now if the… the child changes, and touches the fire: 78 00:04:21,043 --> 00:04:25,038 That Kṛṣṇa knows it will burn. 79 00:04:25,039 --> 00:04:31,693 He knew, when the child did not touch the fire, his future. 80 00:04:31,694 --> 00:04:35,934 And when he touched the fire, Kṛṣṇa knew the result. 81 00:04:35,935 --> 00:04:44,594 So He always knows. 82 00:04:44,595 --> 00:04:48,446 His position is to know the future; He’s always…. 83 00:04:48,447 --> 00:04:55,732 Now you are changing; what is the future, due to our little independence? 84 00:04:55,733 --> 00:04:59,894 So can you actually say that Kṛṣṇa knows if you’ll misuse your independence? 85 00:04:59,895 --> 00:05:03,479 He knows if you… if you misuse your independence what will happen, 86 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,468 - but can it be actually said that… - Yes. 87 00:05:05,469 --> 00:05:07,087 - He knows you will definitely misuse… - Yes, yes. 88 00:05:07,088 --> 00:05:09,116 - If you use your independence properly. It’s up to you. - Yes. 89 00:05:09,117 --> 00:05:10,382 It’s up to you. 90 00:05:10,383 --> 00:05:13,937 Then it limits Kṛṣṇa; if you say that Kṛṣṇa does not know 91 00:05:13,938 --> 00:05:16,061 - No, no. - when I will misuse my ind…. 92 00:05:16,062 --> 00:05:17,100 - or if I will… - That… That… 93 00:05:17,101 --> 00:05:21,229 That means you do not know what is the independence. 94 00:05:21,230 --> 00:05:21,922 You can… 95 00:05:21,923 --> 00:05:25,524 You can change your position at any time. 96 00:05:25,525 --> 00:05:27,343 That is your independence. 97 00:05:27,344 --> 00:05:29,418 But doesn’t Kṛṣṇa know if I will do it? 98 00:05:29,419 --> 00:05:32,663 Yes, because you are independent. 99 00:05:32,664 --> 00:05:35,182 That is the meaning. 100 00:05:35,183 --> 00:05:36,456 Marginal. 101 00:05:36,457 --> 00:05:38,045 What will the…. 102 00:05:38,046 --> 00:05:41,871 That will depend on… And the result He knows. 103 00:05:41,872 --> 00:05:49,850 As a lawyer knows that he has done this—criminal: He’ll be punished like this. 104 00:05:49,851 --> 00:05:55,646 So His position to know the future is always there. 105 00:05:55,647 --> 00:06:01,101 Either in this condition or other condition. 106 00:06:01,102 --> 00:06:03,846 - But the lawyer doesn’t… - Why Kṛṣṇa? Everyone knows. 107 00:06:03,847 --> 00:06:06,577 Suppose you have got this body; next body he’s a dog. 108 00:06:06,578 --> 00:06:09,483 I can say you’ll bark. 109 00:06:09,484 --> 00:06:10,331 Yes. 110 00:06:10,332 --> 00:06:13,980 What you’ll do? 111 00:06:13,981 --> 00:06:15,737 That’s all. 112 00:06:15,738 --> 00:06:19,294 What to speak of Kṛṣṇa; I can say. 113 00:06:19,295 --> 00:06:23,041 If you… 114 00:06:23,042 --> 00:06:27,997 That was Satsvarūpa’s question: Satsvarūpa Mahārāja’s question. 115 00:06:27,998 --> 00:06:30,656 No, this is the answer. 116 00:06:30,657 --> 00:06:34,466 Kṛṣṇa’s position is always the same. 117 00:06:34,467 --> 00:06:47,747 He knows past, present and… [splice] 118 00:06:47,748 --> 00:06:48,917 BHARADVĀJA: Yesterday you gave an example 119 00:06:48,918 --> 00:06:54,367 of a man who was lying asleep in bed, and he is transported somewhere in dream, 120 00:06:54,368 --> 00:06:55,944 walking on the beach. 121 00:06:55,945 --> 00:06:57,402 What is the full… 122 00:06:57,403 --> 00:07:00,546 ’Cause we’re… we’re going to try to make an… an exhibit of it. 123 00:07:00,547 --> 00:07:02,295 So what… what is the full analogy? 124 00:07:02,296 --> 00:07:08,660 Is he actually going to a… Is he actually going to another place by his mind? 125 00:07:08,661 --> 00:07:11,688 - He’s actually transported? - The soul is going there. 126 00:07:11,689 --> 00:07:15,426 - Actually… - The seer is the same. 127 00:07:15,427 --> 00:07:20,602 This gross body or in the subtle body. 128 00:07:20,603 --> 00:07:25,475 I am in the… Walking in this gross body, I’m seeing the ocean, 129 00:07:25,476 --> 00:07:31,261 and I leave my gross body… I… In dream, I go to India. 130 00:07:31,262 --> 00:07:36,549 So the seer is the same. 131 00:07:36,550 --> 00:07:53,702 - That is the proof of transmigration. - Hmm. 132 00:07:53,703 --> 00:07:59,654 He’s dreaming tiger, and he’s… and he’s crying, “Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger,” 133 00:07:59,655 --> 00:08:07,111 and another man who is seer of the body: He says, “Where is tiger?” 134 00:08:07,112 --> 00:08:09,639 So, this is the difference. 135 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,921 One is seeing through this gross body; another seeing through the 136 00:08:12,922 --> 00:08:14,351 - Subtle body. - subtle body. 137 00:08:14,352 --> 00:08:32,721 - But the seer is the same. [break] - Hm. 138 00:08:32,722 --> 00:08:36,606 [Transmigration] of the soul means, when he’s seeing through…. 139 00:08:36,607 --> 00:08:39,992 That is practical; the child: 140 00:08:39,993 --> 00:08:45,621 When he’s seeing through the childish body, he’s talking nonsense. 141 00:08:45,622 --> 00:08:52,061 The same soul, when he’s talking as a elderly person, he’s talking [indistinct]. 142 00:08:52,062 --> 00:08:57,548 The seer is the same; simply the glass is changed. 143 00:08:57,549 --> 00:09:09,464 Sometimes blue; sometimes red. [break] 144 00:09:09,465 --> 00:09:11,276 Huh? 145 00:09:11,277 --> 00:09:12,199 Why not? 146 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:19,532 The seer is the same; medium is different. 147 00:09:19,533 --> 00:09:29,438 That you have… [break] 148 00:09:29,439 --> 00:09:33,506 Dead body means the seer is no longer there. 149 00:09:33,507 --> 00:09:54,816 It has entered another body. [break] 150 00:09:54,817 --> 00:09:57,599 PRADYUMNA: When someone is sleeping and dreaming: 151 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:06,548 - That the seer has left the gross body? - Yes, yes. 152 00:10:06,549 --> 00:10:10,407 How the… Life symptoms: How are the life symptoms maintained in the body? 153 00:10:10,408 --> 00:10:14,195 - Huh? Huh? - The life symptoms are maintained in the body still? 154 00:10:14,196 --> 00:10:17,520 No, life symptoms: There is not. 155 00:10:17,521 --> 00:10:20,644 The body’s fit. 156 00:10:20,645 --> 00:10:22,953 Therefore, he comes back again. 157 00:10:22,954 --> 00:10:27,074 When the body is not fit, he enter another body. 158 00:10:27,075 --> 00:10:30,914 Just like your car you leave; now we come here. 159 00:10:30,915 --> 00:10:33,153 Now the car is all right; we’ll go. 160 00:10:33,154 --> 00:10:37,582 If it is useless, we don’t go; we take another. 161 00:10:37,583 --> 00:10:39,176 The body is breathing. 162 00:10:39,177 --> 00:10:46,835 HṚDAYĀNANDA: Like leaving the motor running. 163 00:10:46,836 --> 00:10:52,225 They… Unless the seer returns back, the body will lie down. 164 00:10:52,226 --> 00:10:54,935 - That is death. - Ahh. 165 00:10:54,936 --> 00:10:57,647 The seer no more comes back; then it is death. 166 00:10:57,648 --> 00:11:00,887 Yeah, sometimes a man dies in his sleep. 167 00:11:00,888 --> 00:11:08,246 It is death. 168 00:11:08,247 --> 00:11:18,891 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So sleeping is like temporary death. - Yes. 169 00:11:18,892 --> 00:11:20,787 All deaths are temporary. 170 00:11:20,788 --> 00:11:24,625 When you change bodies, you die for seven months. 171 00:11:24,626 --> 00:11:35,277 This death is for few hours; a that is for seven months; that’s all. 172 00:11:35,278 --> 00:11:35,279 Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com