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MW LA 1976-06-03 Death and Dreams
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ANNOUNCER: Next is a
morning walk conversation,
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on June 3rd,
1976, in Los Angeles.
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RĀMEŚVARA: Yesterday you
were explaining in your garden
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to that priest that Kṛṣṇa… He says… Kṛṣṇa
says, “I am the father of all living entities.”
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And you were saying, “Who
can challenge this or deny it?”
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Now someone can say
that there is contradiction,
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if there is some contradiction in Kṛṣṇa’s
statement, therefore [indistinct]…
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PRABHUPĀDA: Who can contradict
this? That… That is my challenge.
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The contradiction is not valid.
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Who can contradict it?
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That is my challenge.
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Well, ah… Say, in
some philosophy…
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Just like a father:
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A real father can say,
“I am the father.”
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Who can challenge?
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Father is one.
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Who can? Nobody can say “No,
you are not father; he’s father;” no.
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The real father is father.
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Father cannot be replaced.
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- No.
- Yes.
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Suppose real father says, “I
am the father of this boy.”
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Who will challenge it?
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- Someone who does not believe my father.
- That… That means he’s a rascal.
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But father cannot be changed.
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He does not know; he
challenges; that’s all.
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How the father can be changed?
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Father is one.
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We say that Kṛṣṇa is all good.
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Yes.
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And then the materialist says,
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“If Kṛṣṇa is all good, then
how is there any evil?”
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Evil is you.
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- But everything comes from Kṛṣṇa.
- Yes.
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Everything comes from…. Yes.
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If… You have created a situation.
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So, for your satisfaction, Kṛṣṇa has
given you the chance, but that is evil:
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What you have created.
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But I have this propensity
because I am part of Kṛṣṇa.
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Yes.
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When [you] come under māyā, you
have got so many propensities.
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As soon as you disobey
Kṛṣṇa, the māyā is there.
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kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare
[nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare]
[Prema-vivarta]
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Immediately.
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Just like darkness and light.
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As soon as you give up
light, you come to darkness.
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There is no second alternative.
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Kṛṣṇa is the friend of everyone.
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- Yes.
- So why does He allow me
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- to have this independence?
- No, that is His….
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Why not?
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- Because it is not good for me.
- Then… Then…
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Then you are not
perfectly Kṛṣṇa’s aṁśa.
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Kṛṣṇa has got independence.
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You see one son is born, even a
father has got a black spot here,
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sometimes the son has a black…
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But if it’s not good for
me, if I will misuse it,
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- why would Kṛṣṇa give it to me anyway?
- Yes, therefore the demand is
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“You surrender, rascal; you
are suffering; you surrender.
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That is your good…”
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Therefore He comes.
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He loves His sons:
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“You rascals, why you
are creating plans?
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Come here!
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Sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ… [Bg. 18.66];
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I shall give you all comfort.”
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Kṛṣṇa knows
everything in the past,
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- and everything in the future.
- Yes.
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So when Kṛṣṇa… Kṛṣṇa knows that
I will misuse my independence.
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But still He gives
me independence.
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That is Kṛṣṇa’s mercy.
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- Even though it is bad for me.
PUṢṬA KṚṢṆA: Hey wait…
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You say Kṛṣṇa knows that you are
going to misuse your independence?
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Because He knows everything
[splice] and everything in the future.
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So He must… Kṛṣṇa
is all… all-knowing.
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This [indistinct] future, means that I… Just
like a father knows the… how the child is.
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Now if the… the child
changes, and touches the fire:
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That Kṛṣṇa knows it will burn.
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He knew, when the child did
not touch the fire, his future.
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And when he touched the
fire, Kṛṣṇa knew the result.
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So He always knows.
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His position is to know
the future; He’s always….
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Now you are changing; what is the
future, due to our little independence?
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So can you actually say that Kṛṣṇa knows
if you’ll misuse your independence?
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He knows if you… if you misuse your
independence what will happen,
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- but can it be actually said that…
- Yes.
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- He knows you will definitely misuse…
- Yes, yes.
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- If you use your independence properly. It’s up to you.
- Yes.
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It’s up to you.
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Then it limits Kṛṣṇa; if you
say that Kṛṣṇa does not know
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- No, no.
- when I will misuse my ind….
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- or if I will…
- That… That…
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That means you do not know
what is the independence.
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You can…
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You can change your
position at any time.
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That is your independence.
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But doesn’t Kṛṣṇa
know if I will do it?
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Yes, because you are independent.
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That is the meaning.
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Marginal.
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What will the….
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That will depend on…
And the result He knows.
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As a lawyer knows that he has done
this—criminal: He’ll be punished like this.
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So His position to know
the future is always there.
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Either in this condition
or other condition.
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- But the lawyer doesn’t…
- Why Kṛṣṇa? Everyone knows.
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Suppose you have got this
body; next body he’s a dog.
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I can say you’ll bark.
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Yes.
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What you’ll do?
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That’s all.
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What to speak of Kṛṣṇa; I can say.
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If you…
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That was Satsvarūpa’s question:
Satsvarūpa Mahārāja’s question.
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No, this is the answer.
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Kṛṣṇa’s position is
always the same.
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He knows past,
present and… [splice]
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BHARADVĀJA: Yesterday
you gave an example
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of a man who was lying asleep in bed, and
he is transported somewhere in dream,
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walking on the beach.
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What is the full…
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’Cause we’re… we’re going to
try to make an… an exhibit of it.
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So what… what is the full analogy?
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Is he actually going to a… Is he actually
going to another place by his mind?
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- He’s actually transported?
- The soul is going there.
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- Actually…
- The seer is the same.
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This gross body or
in the subtle body.
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I am in the… Walking in this
gross body, I’m seeing the ocean,
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and I leave my gross body…
I… In dream, I go to India.
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So the seer is the same.
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- That is the proof of transmigration.
- Hmm.
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He’s dreaming tiger, and he’s… and
he’s crying, “Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger,”
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and another man who is seer of
the body: He says, “Where is tiger?”
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So, this is the difference.
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One is seeing through this gross
body; another seeing through the
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- Subtle body.
- subtle body.
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- But the seer is the same. [break]
- Hm.
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[Transmigration] of the soul means,
when he’s seeing through….
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That is practical; the child:
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When he’s seeing through the
childish body, he’s talking nonsense.
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The same soul, when he’s talking as a
elderly person, he’s talking [indistinct].
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The seer is the same;
simply the glass is changed.
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Sometimes blue;
sometimes red. [break]
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Huh?
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Why not?
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The seer is the same;
medium is different.
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That you have… [break]
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Dead body means the
seer is no longer there.
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It has entered
another body. [break]
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PRADYUMNA: When someone
is sleeping and dreaming:
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- That the seer has left the gross body?
- Yes, yes.
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How the… Life symptoms: How are the
life symptoms maintained in the body?
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- Huh? Huh?
- The life symptoms are maintained in the body still?
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No, life symptoms: There is not.
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The body’s fit.
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Therefore, he comes back again.
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When the body is not fit,
he enter another body.
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Just like your car you
leave; now we come here.
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Now the car is all right; we’ll go.
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If it is useless, we don’t
go; we take another.
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The body is breathing.
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HṚDAYĀNANDA: Like
leaving the motor running.
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They… Unless the seer returns
back, the body will lie down.
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- That is death.
- Ahh.
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The seer no more comes
back; then it is death.
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Yeah, sometimes a
man dies in his sleep.
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It is death.
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TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So sleeping is like temporary death.
- Yes.
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All deaths are temporary.
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When you change bodies,
you die for seven months.
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This death is for few hours; a that
is for seven months; that’s all.
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Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com