0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,624 MW MAY 1976-03-16 What Is Next 1 00:00:01,625 --> 00:00:03,897 ANNOUNCER: Next is a morning walk conversation 2 00:00:03,898 --> 00:00:09,197 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:09,198 --> 00:00:19,999 recorded on March 16th, 1976, in Māyāpura, India. 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,945 PRABHUPĀDA: …countries they accept a new leader. 5 00:00:25,946 --> 00:00:26,579 PUṢṬA KṚṢṆA: Yes. 6 00:00:26,580 --> 00:00:27,359 Do they not? 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,178 Oh, yes. 8 00:00:31,179 --> 00:00:41,536 So before they became communist, they had some leader or not? 9 00:00:41,537 --> 00:00:43,665 Yes, the Czar in Russia. 10 00:00:43,666 --> 00:00:44,219 Eh? 11 00:00:44,220 --> 00:00:49,359 The Czar was the leader in Russia. 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,245 JAYATĪRTHA: And Chiang Kai-shek in China. 13 00:00:52,246 --> 00:00:55,543 So why they changed their leader? 14 00:00:55,544 --> 00:00:56,815 GOPĀLA KṚṢṆA: There was a revolution. 15 00:00:56,816 --> 00:00:58,563 MADHUDVIṢA: People were unsatisfied. Eh? 16 00:00:58,564 --> 00:01:01,043 People were not satisfied with the government. 17 00:01:01,044 --> 00:01:03,963 There was a revolution. No, people were not satisfied… 18 00:01:03,964 --> 00:01:07,373 The principle, what is the principle? 19 00:01:07,374 --> 00:01:11,723 To have better leader. 20 00:01:11,724 --> 00:01:13,373 Is it not? 21 00:01:13,374 --> 00:01:21,713 So if they get still better leader, why they will not change? 22 00:01:21,714 --> 00:01:24,684 They would say it’s not the leader but it’s the system. 23 00:01:24,685 --> 00:01:30,954 Whatever the system is done by some leaders. 24 00:01:30,955 --> 00:01:36,064 Anything… Just like our, this system we have introduced. 25 00:01:36,065 --> 00:01:38,314 I am the leader. 26 00:01:38,315 --> 00:01:50,584 Similarly, a leader is changed for betterment of the situation. 27 00:01:50,585 --> 00:01:55,294 So if the communists and those who have brain, 28 00:01:55,295 --> 00:02:02,384 if they find a better leader for better situation, why they’ll not? 29 00:02:02,385 --> 00:02:05,444 And they want for revolution also. 30 00:02:05,445 --> 00:02:08,044 They are in favor of revolution. 31 00:02:08,045 --> 00:02:12,564 Their theory is that periodically there must be revolution. 32 00:02:12,565 --> 00:02:18,674 That is their theory. I talked with Professor Kotovsky. 33 00:02:18,675 --> 00:02:28,084 So why they will not accept another revolution for further advancement? 34 00:02:28,085 --> 00:02:29,894 One of the main problems I can see is 35 00:02:29,895 --> 00:02:34,434 to divorce our movement from religious concept because… 36 00:02:34,435 --> 00:02:36,674 It is not the question of religious concept. 37 00:02:36,675 --> 00:02:38,224 This is nonsense. 38 00:02:38,225 --> 00:02:43,315 You have to… Just like when Kṛṣṇa says, 39 00:02:43,316 --> 00:02:46,075 Dehino ’smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā [Bg. 2.13]. 40 00:02:46,076 --> 00:02:48,605 That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. 41 00:02:48,606 --> 00:02:51,625 So does it mean a religion? 42 00:02:51,626 --> 00:02:57,825 Then why these nonsense take it as religion? It is a fact. 43 00:02:57,826 --> 00:03:02,655 How you can neglect the fact? 44 00:03:02,656 --> 00:03:06,015 Eh? 45 00:03:06,016 --> 00:03:08,945 Kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. 46 00:03:08,946 --> 00:03:15,235 A baby becoming a boy, boy becoming a young man, is it religion? 47 00:03:15,236 --> 00:03:19,475 Either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha, everyone is becoming like that. 48 00:03:19,476 --> 00:03:21,535 Where is religion? 49 00:03:21,536 --> 00:03:23,105 Why do they take it as religion? 50 00:03:23,106 --> 00:03:25,335 SATSVARŪPA: It’s religion because it’s not empirical fact. 51 00:03:25,336 --> 00:03:25,675 Eh? 52 00:03:25,676 --> 00:03:28,045 It’s not an empirical fact. What is that empirical fact? 53 00:03:28,046 --> 00:03:30,525 That after you die, you take another body. 54 00:03:30,526 --> 00:03:34,455 Apart from that, why, how the baby is becoming a boy? 55 00:03:34,456 --> 00:03:40,755 This is a fact. 56 00:03:40,756 --> 00:03:46,375 How a baby is becoming a child, a child is becoming a boy, 57 00:03:46,376 --> 00:03:51,736 a boy is becoming young man, a young man is becoming middle aged? 58 00:03:51,737 --> 00:03:57,126 Does it mean… Is it a particular type of religious system? 59 00:03:57,127 --> 00:03:59,176 Why this nonsense? 60 00:03:59,177 --> 00:04:02,646 What kind of intelligent person they are? 61 00:04:02,647 --> 00:04:04,726 It is a fact. 62 00:04:04,727 --> 00:04:07,376 Now we come to the old age. 63 00:04:07,377 --> 00:04:13,676 So I have come to old age body after so many stages. 64 00:04:13,677 --> 00:04:17,256 Then where is the next? 65 00:04:17,257 --> 00:04:20,556 The next is Tathā dehāntara [Bg. 2.13]. He’ll get another body. 66 00:04:20,557 --> 00:04:22,716 This is very common sense. 67 00:04:22,717 --> 00:04:24,326 They won’t accept that. Eh? 68 00:04:24,327 --> 00:04:27,136 That is means a rascal. 69 00:04:27,137 --> 00:04:31,266 Why should you not…? You answer, then what is next? 70 00:04:31,267 --> 00:04:35,076 They will say he is finished. No, how it can be finished? 71 00:04:35,077 --> 00:04:37,356 How it can be finished? 72 00:04:37,357 --> 00:04:45,226 If you have come stage by stage by stage… It is finished to your eyes. 73 00:04:45,227 --> 00:04:47,216 Just like the sunshine is there. 74 00:04:47,217 --> 00:04:50,277 “In the evening there will be no more sun; it is finished.” 75 00:04:50,278 --> 00:04:54,677 What is this nonsense? 76 00:04:54,678 --> 00:04:57,747 Is it finished? A rascal may say it is finished. 77 00:04:57,748 --> 00:05:02,307 RŪPĀNUGA: Out of sight, they say it is finished. Yes. 78 00:05:02,308 --> 00:05:06,217 So this thing you have to convince them. 79 00:05:06,218 --> 00:05:18,727 Why should you allow them to remain a rascal? 80 00:05:18,728 --> 00:05:20,927 Now the sun is rising. 81 00:05:20,928 --> 00:05:24,187 Does it mean all of a sudden a sun is created? 82 00:05:24,188 --> 00:05:33,087 So these are the examples. You have to preach like that. 83 00:05:33,088 --> 00:05:35,597 Simply believe your eyes? 84 00:05:35,598 --> 00:05:37,677 You believe also there was no sun; now it is sun. 85 00:05:37,678 --> 00:05:46,097 That means all of a sudden a sun became created. 86 00:05:46,098 --> 00:05:52,687 See the intelligent persons and convince them. 87 00:05:52,688 --> 00:05:56,157 Yad yad ācārati śreṣṭhaḥ [Bg. 3.21]. 88 00:05:56,158 --> 00:06:00,587 Pick up the best man. 89 00:06:00,588 --> 00:06:05,097 Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He picked up the best men, 90 00:06:05,098 --> 00:06:13,027 Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. 91 00:06:13,028 --> 00:06:22,187 So His movement became successful. 92 00:06:22,188 --> 00:06:26,048 Sanātana Gosvāmī was not an ordinary man. 93 00:06:26,049 --> 00:06:36,358 Very educated, learned brāhmaṇa and minister, Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up. 94 00:06:36,359 --> 00:06:43,388 Similarly Rūpa Gosvāmī, similarly Jīva Gosvāmī. 95 00:06:43,389 --> 00:06:50,278 Picked up means by His preaching they became converted. 96 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:57,358 So similarly pick up a person like Sanātana Gosvāmī, intelligent, 97 00:06:57,359 --> 00:07:00,098 in position, and try to convince him. 98 00:07:00,099 --> 00:07:05,738 Why he will not be convinced, if he’s a human being? 99 00:07:05,739 --> 00:07:20,148 This is not religion. 100 00:07:20,149 --> 00:07:24,538 That I am breathing, what is this breathing? 101 00:07:24,539 --> 00:07:27,058 Eh? What is the breathing? 102 00:07:27,059 --> 00:07:29,648 GURU−KṚPĀ: Air going in and out. Yes. 103 00:07:29,649 --> 00:07:31,178 Now, when the breathing is stopped, 104 00:07:31,179 --> 00:07:39,888 why don’t you manufacture some machine that breathing will come again? 105 00:07:39,889 --> 00:07:42,088 Why you cannot do it? 106 00:07:42,089 --> 00:07:43,798 Everyone knows it is air. 107 00:07:43,799 --> 00:07:49,258 Put some machine within and let there be breathing. 108 00:07:49,259 --> 00:07:52,208 Tell me why you cannot do it? 109 00:07:52,209 --> 00:07:55,189 MAHENDRA: They have some machines like that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. 110 00:07:55,190 --> 00:07:59,169 Then you are another rascal. Who is this rascal? 111 00:07:59,170 --> 00:08:03,959 They have some machines. And don’t spoil time like that, “They have got a machine.” 112 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,939 What is that machine? 113 00:08:06,940 --> 00:08:10,689 Machines are not living. And don’t create unnecessary talks. 114 00:08:10,690 --> 00:08:13,449 What is that machine? 115 00:08:13,450 --> 00:08:15,449 They have a machine? 116 00:08:15,450 --> 00:08:19,869 What is that nonsense machine? 117 00:08:19,870 --> 00:08:23,199 Eh? Who knows that machine? 118 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:23,829 Eh? 119 00:08:23,830 --> 00:08:26,789 It’s called an air respirator. 120 00:08:26,790 --> 00:08:28,769 But can it bring life? 121 00:08:28,770 --> 00:08:32,219 No. Then what is the use of that machine? 122 00:08:32,220 --> 00:08:34,959 What is the use of the machine? 123 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,299 Everyone knows that it is air. 124 00:08:38,300 --> 00:08:40,339 Now air is stopped. 125 00:08:40,340 --> 00:08:43,869 That is my reject. Bring that air again. 126 00:08:43,870 --> 00:08:48,969 There is ample air. 127 00:08:48,970 --> 00:09:14,959 Bring that machine. 128 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:21,490 Simply… Similarly, if you analyze the whole body, it is confirmed, 129 00:09:21,491 --> 00:09:29,650 you will find these five elements, that ’s all, earth, water, air, fire, sky. That’s all. 130 00:09:29,651 --> 00:09:31,470 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: That’s scientific. No one denies that. 131 00:09:31,471 --> 00:09:36,480 Yes. They why don’t you create a body? 132 00:09:36,481 --> 00:09:40,260 What is your science? 133 00:09:40,261 --> 00:09:42,980 You’ve just pointed out: the body may already be there, 134 00:09:42,981 --> 00:09:45,610 but they cannot replace the life. 135 00:09:45,611 --> 00:09:51,080 Even a body is already created, like a dead body, but they can’t bring life back into it. 136 00:09:51,081 --> 00:10:00,980 Then what is that life? That is the question. 137 00:10:00,981 --> 00:10:16,670 That life is soul. You have to accept. [break] 138 00:10:16,671 --> 00:10:20,180 …car stop. 139 00:10:20,181 --> 00:10:21,960 Some machine broken. 140 00:10:21,961 --> 00:10:27,420 As soon as the machine is placed, now the motor car is fit for running, 141 00:10:27,421 --> 00:10:33,890 but not for the machine, but for the driver. 142 00:10:33,891 --> 00:10:39,940 When the driver is not there, you cannot create or purchase a driver. 143 00:10:39,941 --> 00:10:43,600 That is not possible. 144 00:10:43,601 --> 00:10:58,680 You can repair the machine, but without driver the machine will not run. 145 00:10:58,681 --> 00:11:01,660 So why they should be blind about this fact? 146 00:11:01,661 --> 00:11:12,220 What is this knowledge, advancement of knowledge? 147 00:11:12,221 --> 00:11:18,851 The body is created. If it is accepted… Body is created by these material elements. 148 00:11:18,852 --> 00:11:23,841 Now create another body. 149 00:11:23,842 --> 00:11:27,781 Just like dollmakers make a body, you also make a body, 150 00:11:27,782 --> 00:11:36,421 very beautiful woman, and give it life. 151 00:11:36,422 --> 00:11:41,631 Why they cannot do it? 152 00:11:41,632 --> 00:11:45,511 But even accepting that the soul is the living force, 153 00:11:45,512 --> 00:11:47,871 they may say that “Well, we’re living in this material world 154 00:11:47,872 --> 00:11:50,251 and we have to deal with matter, 155 00:11:50,252 --> 00:11:52,431 so what is the importance of all this knowledge?” 156 00:11:52,432 --> 00:11:53,391 Hm? 157 00:11:53,392 --> 00:11:57,341 They may say that “We’re living in the material world in spite of this knowledge, 158 00:11:57,342 --> 00:12:00,391 so we have to deal with material circumstances.” But you do not like to die. 159 00:12:00,392 --> 00:12:04,411 Why do you die with your material knowledge? 160 00:12:04,412 --> 00:12:07,141 Nobody wants to die but why you die? 161 00:12:07,142 --> 00:12:13,261 Then where is your material knowledge? 162 00:12:13,262 --> 00:12:15,631 You do not like to be old man. 163 00:12:15,632 --> 00:12:20,381 Where is your material knowledge that you can stop old age? 164 00:12:20,382 --> 00:12:26,192 Then you have to accept that your material knowledge is not perfect. 165 00:12:26,193 --> 00:12:30,882 Why you are so much proud of this false knowledge? 166 00:12:30,883 --> 00:12:35,862 Unnecessarily. 167 00:12:35,863 --> 00:12:38,412 But we don’t see that you are able to stop death. 168 00:12:38,413 --> 00:12:39,752 Eh? 169 00:12:39,753 --> 00:12:42,382 We agree that it would be nice to stop death, but where is… Yes. 170 00:12:42,383 --> 00:12:47,802 Yes, we know. You learn from us. We know. 171 00:12:47,803 --> 00:12:57,112 Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. This is the process. 172 00:12:57,113 --> 00:12:59,402 BHAVANANDA: But we haven’t seen that anyone in your movement… 173 00:12:59,403 --> 00:13:02,632 Again “seeing,” condemned seeing. 174 00:13:02,633 --> 00:13:06,952 Your seeing is like that, that “The sun has come all of a sudden.” 175 00:13:06,953 --> 00:13:09,052 That is your seeing. 176 00:13:09,053 --> 00:13:13,972 “And when the sun is not there, the sun dead.” That is your seeing. 177 00:13:13,973 --> 00:13:17,782 This is rascal seeing, animal seeing. 178 00:13:17,783 --> 00:13:19,852 Then you want us to have faith. 179 00:13:19,853 --> 00:13:21,362 No faith. It is knowledge. 180 00:13:21,363 --> 00:13:25,732 If I can’t see, then it means faith. No, you can’t see. You are rascal; how you will see? 181 00:13:25,733 --> 00:13:28,512 Just like an astrologer can say it is going to happen. 182 00:13:28,513 --> 00:13:31,373 You cannot see, but he can see. 183 00:13:31,374 --> 00:13:33,313 That means I have to have faith, though. 184 00:13:33,314 --> 00:13:35,853 It is not faith. It is fact. 185 00:13:35,854 --> 00:13:48,658 If I say that “At 6:30 in the evening there will be no sun,” it is not faith; it is fact. 186 00:13:48,659 --> 00:13:48,660 Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com