0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,809 MW NEL 1976-01-04 Caitanya Mahaprabhu Left the --etc 1 00:00:13,810 --> 00:00:16,369 ANNOUNCER: The following is a morning walk conversation 2 00:00:16,370 --> 00:00:21,669 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:21,670 --> 00:00:43,059 recorded on the 4th of January, 1976, in Nellore, India. 4 00:00:43,060 --> 00:00:50,789 INDIAN MAN: that Jyoti Swami showed me that incident at Japan[?], and he asked me, 5 00:00:50,790 --> 00:00:54,149 “Have you seen…?” Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. 6 00:00:54,150 --> 00:00:58,379 Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. 7 00:00:58,380 --> 00:01:04,219 Makṣikā bhramarā icchanti…[?] Maksikā, these ordinary flies, 8 00:01:04,220 --> 00:01:12,959 they find out where is sore, and the bhramarā, he finds out where is honey. 9 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:16,570 Similarly, doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. 10 00:01:16,571 --> 00:01:20,170 And the Bhaktivedanta Swami is doing preaching all over the world— 11 00:01:20,171 --> 00:01:22,160 that has not come to his eyes. 12 00:01:22,161 --> 00:01:25,740 He has come to the Japanese incident. He has come. 13 00:01:25,741 --> 00:01:30,520 Yes, I told him there might be some, in a big organization, such a… 14 00:01:30,521 --> 00:01:33,060 No, why did you not say, “You are such a pamara 15 00:01:33,061 --> 00:01:36,520 that this thing has come to your notice and not other thing?” That I told him. 16 00:01:36,521 --> 00:01:39,880 For that he began to say, “No, no, you read my literature. You’ll be…. 17 00:01:39,881 --> 00:01:41,650 We don’t have any envy.” 18 00:01:41,651 --> 00:01:44,790 I took that also with me, and he gave me…. 19 00:01:44,791 --> 00:01:49,850 Next time, when I went, after reading, I said, “How many mistakes are there? 20 00:01:49,851 --> 00:01:56,780 Not even a single dot is mistake in other literature, and still you say this literature? 21 00:01:56,781 --> 00:01:59,600 And what is new therein? Nothing new.” 22 00:01:59,601 --> 00:02:03,990 Just try to understand that whatever it may be, 23 00:02:03,991 --> 00:02:06,610 what is the mentality of these rascals, 24 00:02:06,611 --> 00:02:09,960 that “The good things do not come to your notice.” 25 00:02:09,961 --> 00:02:13,270 If something is bad, “Oh, here is…” You see. 26 00:02:13,271 --> 00:02:19,250 Pāmarāḥ doṣam icchanti guṇam icchanti paṇḍitāḥ [?]. 27 00:02:19,251 --> 00:02:23,791 Saj-janā guṇam icchanti doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ [?]. 28 00:02:23,792 --> 00:02:28,431 That means they are not even a Vaiṣṇava. You see? 29 00:02:28,432 --> 00:02:31,761 Vaiṣṇava means paramo nirmatsarāṇām. 30 00:02:31,762 --> 00:02:35,711 Even one has got some fault, a Vaiṣṇava does not see that. 31 00:02:35,712 --> 00:02:38,441 He takes the good qualities. 32 00:02:38,442 --> 00:02:41,901 But they are not even Vaiṣṇava. Yes. 33 00:02:41,902 --> 00:02:43,981 Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. 34 00:02:43,982 --> 00:02:46,531 The mission of Gau…, 35 00:02:46,532 --> 00:02:48,861 Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is being preaching all over the…. 36 00:02:48,862 --> 00:02:51,061 That does not come to their…. 37 00:02:51,062 --> 00:02:55,671 Some Japanese paper has written something—it has come immediately. 38 00:02:55,672 --> 00:02:58,531 Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. That fool, that he’s a…. 39 00:02:58,532 --> 00:03:02,851 Here is a pāmara, and he’s a lowest of the mankind. 40 00:03:02,852 --> 00:03:09,151 You can say that “Why this thing has come prominent to your eyes 41 00:03:09,152 --> 00:03:10,871 and not the other thing?” 42 00:03:10,872 --> 00:03:13,201 No, I did say in my own way, 43 00:03:13,202 --> 00:03:16,651 though I did not quote this, that “You are a pāmara. I said, “Why…” 44 00:03:16,652 --> 00:03:18,031 Yes, you can say now, 45 00:03:18,032 --> 00:03:21,202 that “That day I forgot to say that you are a pāmara. 46 00:03:21,203 --> 00:03:26,662 So I have come to say that you are a pāmara. [laughter] 47 00:03:26,663 --> 00:03:29,982 “I forgot it. Excuse me, I forgot it. 48 00:03:29,983 --> 00:03:34,452 So you are pāmara. 49 00:03:34,453 --> 00:03:38,252 And it is so. As a matter of fact, it is so. 50 00:03:38,253 --> 00:03:40,812 And for that, the apology is, “No, no, 51 00:03:40,813 --> 00:03:44,222 I do realize that lot of work is being done about that.” 52 00:03:44,223 --> 00:03:48,292 “But because I am pāmara, I am finding out this fault.” 53 00:03:48,293 --> 00:03:51,571 But you have now completed the sentence. 54 00:03:51,572 --> 00:03:55,271 “You know lot of things, but because you are pāmara, 55 00:03:55,272 --> 00:03:57,162 therefore this thing has come prominent.” 56 00:03:57,163 --> 00:03:58,102 That is the proviso. 57 00:03:58,103 --> 00:03:59,442 Yes. 58 00:03:59,443 --> 00:04:04,092 That is the proof that you are a pāmara. 59 00:04:04,093 --> 00:04:07,832 In my own way, if they challenge us and they are convincing, 60 00:04:07,833 --> 00:04:10,772 because to the audience it has to be said. 61 00:04:10,773 --> 00:04:16,422 One gosvāmī, when I said, “Well, this is a movement which I very much like, 62 00:04:16,423 --> 00:04:19,632 and like also to join,” then he said that— 63 00:04:19,633 --> 00:04:23,802 because I am conducting Gītā Bhavan[?] founded by him—he said, “No, no, no, no. 64 00:04:23,803 --> 00:04:26,672 We as a matter of fact champion that cause. 65 00:04:26,673 --> 00:04:31,972 But afterwards, when we realized that it is not sampradayic, we have given it up. 66 00:04:31,973 --> 00:04:34,252 Therefore…” Then his conduct…. 67 00:04:34,253 --> 00:04:36,862 The next day itself, he was not liking me. 68 00:04:36,863 --> 00:04:40,562 I have been doing this propaganda, this Gītā pravacanam, 69 00:04:40,563 --> 00:04:45,332 for the past four years in the organization founded by him. 70 00:04:45,333 --> 00:04:52,032 But the very next day, that gosvāmī, Puruṣottama Gosvāmī of Vṛndāvana… 71 00:04:52,033 --> 00:04:57,152 YAŚODĀNANDANA: The envious one. 72 00:04:57,153 --> 00:04:59,432 He has got a camp here? 73 00:04:59,433 --> 00:05:03,932 YAŚODĀNANDANA: No, in Madras. When he was here it happened. 74 00:05:03,933 --> 00:05:06,003 And that devotee’s grace…. 75 00:05:06,004 --> 00:05:10,393 Then I said, “What is the reason why you say?” “No, no. 76 00:05:10,394 --> 00:05:13,333 After all, we are qualified. 77 00:05:13,334 --> 00:05:15,943 Those mlecchas…” PRABHUPĀDA: Nobody cares for you. 78 00:05:15,944 --> 00:05:19,753 You are so qualified that nobody cares for you. 79 00:05:19,754 --> 00:05:20,573 TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: What did he say? 80 00:05:20,574 --> 00:05:21,823 YAŚODĀNANDANA: What did he say about mlecchas? 81 00:05:21,824 --> 00:05:25,333 Yes, “Why mlecchas, how can they have, after all?” 82 00:05:25,334 --> 00:05:28,953 I said, “You yourself were a married person, and…” 83 00:05:28,954 --> 00:05:31,033 And you did not know that they are not…. 84 00:05:31,034 --> 00:05:35,913 If they are mlecchas, then you are nārakī. 85 00:05:35,914 --> 00:05:40,983 It is said, vaiṣṇave jāti- buddhiḥ nārakī [?]. Yes. 86 00:05:40,984 --> 00:05:46,903 Ārcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara- matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ nārakī [?]. 87 00:05:46,904 --> 00:05:55,933 Anyone who considers in terms of caste a Vaiṣṇava, he’s a nārakī. 88 00:05:55,934 --> 00:06:02,083 Nārakī. Now, just like we go to the temple to see the Deities. 89 00:06:02,084 --> 00:06:07,523 Many millions of people are coming, but everyone knows that this is made of stone. 90 00:06:07,524 --> 00:06:09,963 But they are going to see the stone? 91 00:06:09,964 --> 00:06:12,654 There is God in it. Huh? 92 00:06:12,655 --> 00:06:15,364 They are going to see the stone? 93 00:06:15,365 --> 00:06:19,814 So arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhiḥ [?]. Anyone who thinks like that…. 94 00:06:19,815 --> 00:06:22,224 Similarly, everyone knows that he is European, 95 00:06:22,225 --> 00:06:27,514 he is American, but because he is Vaiṣṇava, one should not see like that, mleccha. 96 00:06:27,515 --> 00:06:30,924 If he sees, then he’s nārakī. 97 00:06:30,925 --> 00:06:33,594 It also proves that they have no faith in the holy name, 98 00:06:33,595 --> 00:06:35,934 because the harināma purifies everything. 99 00:06:35,935 --> 00:06:39,024 DHṚṢṬADYUMNA: [aside:] Did that swami show that article to Prabhupāda? 100 00:06:39,025 --> 00:06:46,674 Yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyām [sic]. Aho bata svapa. 101 00:06:46,675 --> 00:06:52,974 Why do you speak in the middle? You should hear. 102 00:06:52,975 --> 00:07:00,874 Yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubham [?], yan-nāma śruti-mātrena pumān bhavati nirmalaḥ [?]. 103 00:07:00,875 --> 00:07:03,964 And this rascals says the nāma has no…. 104 00:07:03,965 --> 00:07:06,974 See. We have to meet simply rascals all over. 105 00:07:06,975 --> 00:07:12,854 The so-called religionists, so-called swamis, so-called yogis, so-called politicians. 106 00:07:12,855 --> 00:07:19,624 You see? Simply we have to meet with all rascals. 107 00:07:19,625 --> 00:07:21,824 No, he was reminding me 108 00:07:21,825 --> 00:07:27,015 of this Jyoti Mahārāja showing that article on Kṛṣṇa Jayantī day 109 00:07:27,016 --> 00:07:30,005 to the reading out to the entire audience. 110 00:07:30,006 --> 00:07:33,165 That was a rubbish. Oh, read to the whole audience. 111 00:07:33,166 --> 00:07:34,145 He was reading? 112 00:07:34,146 --> 00:07:35,975 Ah, that is what he reminds me, 113 00:07:35,976 --> 00:07:38,995 because I said the incident which I had with him…. 114 00:07:38,996 --> 00:07:41,505 On Kṛṣṇa Jayantī day I did not go there. 115 00:07:41,506 --> 00:07:44,805 But on that day it was being read out. 116 00:07:44,806 --> 00:07:50,065 That was the silly part of it. 117 00:07:50,066 --> 00:07:53,755 So what is the wrong there? What was the wrong? 118 00:07:53,756 --> 00:07:58,015 No, he said that “This movement has got these black sheep, 119 00:07:58,016 --> 00:08:01,415 and they have been banned in Japan. Everywhere they will be banned.” 120 00:08:01,416 --> 00:08:06,075 But there is something in Japan which is banned. But what you have got in Japan? 121 00:08:06,076 --> 00:08:07,095 Nothing. 122 00:08:07,096 --> 00:08:09,035 First of all, we are not even banned in Japan. 123 00:08:09,036 --> 00:08:11,355 The center is still there. No, no, that’s all right. 124 00:08:11,356 --> 00:08:13,295 Banned means we had something. 125 00:08:13,296 --> 00:08:16,465 But what proof you have got that you have done something in Japan? 126 00:08:16,466 --> 00:08:18,185 There is something; there is nothing. So it is better. 127 00:08:18,186 --> 00:08:24,016 Just like one man said that “I have lost fifty thousand this year.” 128 00:08:24,017 --> 00:08:29,146 His friend said, “You are still fortunate, because you had fifty thousand. 129 00:08:29,147 --> 00:08:33,026 But I have no fifty paisa even.” 130 00:08:33,027 --> 00:08:36,826 So there is something. Here nothing. 131 00:08:36,827 --> 00:08:41,766 “So you are so fortunate that you could suffer the loss of fifty thousand, 132 00:08:41,767 --> 00:08:43,826 but I have nothing to lose.” 133 00:08:43,827 --> 00:08:53,566 But that is for a discriminating man. Here it is an ignorance, asuya, envy. 134 00:08:53,567 --> 00:08:56,506 When Acyutānanda Swami was addressing one man [he] said, 135 00:08:56,507 --> 00:09:01,186 “Why always have Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa? We can have Hare Christ also.” 136 00:09:01,187 --> 00:09:03,846 Same answer as Your Holiness gave, 137 00:09:03,847 --> 00:09:09,016 he said, “Yes, yes, you can have it. Whoever says…. We don’t say no. 138 00:09:09,017 --> 00:09:12,216 It is also possible, but degree, matter of degree,” 139 00:09:12,217 --> 00:09:15,846 as Your Holiness the other day put it. 140 00:09:15,847 --> 00:09:19,496 We have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu or you? 141 00:09:19,497 --> 00:09:22,886 Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. adi 17.31]. 142 00:09:22,887 --> 00:09:25,566 So we have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu. 143 00:09:25,567 --> 00:09:28,346 What is this building? 144 00:09:28,347 --> 00:09:36,306 This is a tuberculosis hospital. Oh. 145 00:09:36,307 --> 00:09:37,606 DEVOTEE (2): Prabhupāda, they said that 146 00:09:37,607 --> 00:09:40,457 if Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western countries, 147 00:09:40,458 --> 00:09:43,747 why didn’t He go there Himself? That’s what they told us. 148 00:09:43,748 --> 00:09:47,037 So He left the credit for me [laughter] 149 00:09:47,038 --> 00:09:52,287 DEVOTEES: Jaya! Haribol! 150 00:09:52,288 --> 00:09:56,547 He loves His devotee more than Himself. 151 00:09:56,548 --> 00:10:00,417 HARIKESA: Why didn’t Kṛṣṇa kill everybody at the Battle of Kurukṣetra? Yes. 152 00:10:00,418 --> 00:10:14,857 Kṛṣṇa, by His simple desire He could kill [laughter] 153 00:10:14,858 --> 00:10:15,537 He said therefore, 154 00:10:15,538 --> 00:10:21,837 bhaviṣyatvam, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma [?], sarvatra pracāra haibe. 155 00:10:21,838 --> 00:10:27,927 He is leaving the task for somebody else. [break] 156 00:10:27,928 --> 00:10:30,157 …behind using the machinery, cars, 157 00:10:30,158 --> 00:10:34,787 airplanes, other things also, I think very convincing, Swamiji, 158 00:10:34,788 --> 00:10:38,137 when you say that they are meant only for Kṛṣṇa’s service, 159 00:10:38,138 --> 00:10:40,867 and if it is dedicated for that, it is used. 160 00:10:40,868 --> 00:10:46,117 Otherwise it is misused, abused. Yes, yes. That is bhakti. 161 00:10:46,118 --> 00:10:52,227 Just like you are walking, some money falls down from your pocket. 162 00:10:52,228 --> 00:10:53,767 Then you forgot. 163 00:10:53,768 --> 00:10:56,998 And somebody, “Oh, here is some money”; he takes it. 164 00:10:56,999 --> 00:11:01,348 And somebody takes it but offers to you. Who is the better man? 165 00:11:01,349 --> 00:11:02,928 The person offering. 166 00:11:02,929 --> 00:11:07,158 Yes. That who takes it and puts in the pocket, he is a thief. 167 00:11:07,159 --> 00:11:14,478 And who takes it and offers to you, he is sincere friend. 168 00:11:14,479 --> 00:11:19,508 So we can use everything only for Kṛṣṇa. 169 00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:23,788 And therefore we are friend to Kṛṣṇa. And you are thief. 170 00:11:23,789 --> 00:11:26,848 Kṛṣṇa’s property you are using unauthorizedly. 171 00:11:26,849 --> 00:11:36,538 Therefore you are a thief. 172 00:11:36,539 --> 00:11:38,418 DEVOTEE (3): [break] The Christians say that 173 00:11:38,419 --> 00:11:42,268 God has given us certain things to enjoy. 174 00:11:42,269 --> 00:11:45,248 Just like I was talking to one Christian about eating meat, and he said, 175 00:11:45,249 --> 00:11:48,738 “Well, I enjoy eating meat.” 176 00:11:48,739 --> 00:11:52,138 So, the tiger will say he will enjoy you. 177 00:11:52,139 --> 00:11:56,028 Why do you protest against the tiger? 178 00:11:56,029 --> 00:12:00,078 ACYUTĀNANDA: In the Bible it says that everything was for the enjoyment of man. 179 00:12:00,079 --> 00:12:05,428 Man is sovereign over the animals. 180 00:12:05,429 --> 00:12:08,549 Enjoyment does not mean that you kill him. Enjoy means protection. 181 00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:11,019 It means protecting, not eating. 182 00:12:11,020 --> 00:12:12,029 Go-rakṣya. 183 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:17,299 You protect the cows and take the best food in the world, milk. 184 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:19,439 That is enjoyment. 185 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,159 Not foolishly to eat the cow. 186 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,479 All of those speakers are very eager to give credit to Vivekananda, 187 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,799 but he has not done anything. Prabhupāda has done the most. 188 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,899 They cannot see properly, all these speakers. 189 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:35,169 No one knows Vivekananda in America. 190 00:12:35,170 --> 00:12:35,979 Acchā? 191 00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:41,869 No one has ever heard his name. 192 00:12:41,870 --> 00:12:45,249 No, it is not that no one has heard, 193 00:12:45,250 --> 00:12:51,509 but they are working for the last eighty- five years. What they have done? 194 00:12:51,510 --> 00:12:56,969 They only have about four or five temples, centers in America. 195 00:12:56,970 --> 00:13:01,740 There is no Deity established in the temples, only some big… 196 00:13:01,741 --> 00:13:06,990 Now recently they have established one temple of Rāmakrishna in Vṛndāvana. 197 00:13:06,991 --> 00:13:09,060 Nobody goes there. 198 00:13:09,061 --> 00:13:09,610 Nobody goes there. 199 00:13:09,611 --> 00:13:12,380 YAŚODĀNANDANA: It is simply a hospital. TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: What is the Deity? 200 00:13:12,381 --> 00:13:14,630 They have taken up social work, isn’t it? Everybody.[break] 201 00:13:14,631 --> 00:13:16,790 There is Theosophical Society? 202 00:13:16,791 --> 00:13:23,390 Yes, all over the world, international. 203 00:13:23,391 --> 00:13:24,650 [break] …started from here? 204 00:13:24,651 --> 00:13:30,950 It was started. Madras center and there in America. 205 00:13:30,951 --> 00:13:37,500 [break] …come from the other side [break] …registering this association, 206 00:13:37,501 --> 00:13:43,330 some friend suggested, “Why don’t you make it ‘God consciousness’?” 207 00:13:43,331 --> 00:13:47,600 And “No, ‘Kṛṣṇa conscious.’ If I bring God consciousness, 208 00:13:47,601 --> 00:13:51,810 they will bring so many gods.” 209 00:13:51,811 --> 00:13:55,330 And another question reply was also very convin…, 210 00:13:55,331 --> 00:13:58,160 that all other are gods, but He is Godhead. 211 00:13:58,161 --> 00:14:05,211 That is very clinching expla…. Some of these things are really direct replies. 212 00:14:05,212 --> 00:14:08,401 And actually that is fact. This was…. Even Acyutānanda said the other day. 213 00:14:08,402 --> 00:14:10,471 Somebody asked us that question, 214 00:14:10,472 --> 00:14:13,901 “Why not ‘God conscious’? Why do you want ‘Kṛṣṇa’?” 215 00:14:13,902 --> 00:14:17,881 He also said the same thing [break] 216 00:14:17,882 --> 00:14:25,731 “What is the difference between thieving the butter and other things by Lord Kṛṣṇa and thieving by us?” 217 00:14:25,732 --> 00:14:32,811 I said “The thieving is thieving.” I said, “How can there be theft of…” [break] 218 00:14:32,812 --> 00:14:37,081 And if you steal, you will be beaten with shoes. 219 00:14:37,082 --> 00:14:41,841 We are beaten with shoes, but He is allowed. 220 00:14:41,842 --> 00:14:44,781 Not only allowed, but He is worshiped: 221 00:14:44,782 --> 00:14:49,101 “Sir, it is very kind of You that You have stolen.” 222 00:14:49,102 --> 00:14:54,905 That is what…. 223 00:14:54,905 --> 00:14:54,905 224 00:14:54,906 --> 00:14:54,907 Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com