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MW ROM 1974-05-24 Relief--Only for First-class Devotees
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ANNOUNCER: Next is a
morning walk conversation,
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on May 24th,
1974, in Rome, Italy.
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PRABHUPĀDA: Yes; that
means man worship.
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SATSVARŪPA: They deify a man.
- Huh?
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He’s a man but the people
make him as a god.
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Yes.
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They say that about Kṛṣṇa,
that Kṛṣṇa was a man,
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and then later His
followers deified Him.
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That man wrote that in that
pamphlet, Dr. Bannerjee, in Delhi.
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Oh, he has said like that?
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avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā
manuṣīṁ tanum āśritam
[Bg. 9.11]
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So why they do not deify others?
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Only Kṛṣṇa.
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There were many big, big men.
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All the Pāṇḍavas
were very big men.
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Kṛṣṇa was [a contemporary]
to the Pāṇḍavas.
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Why Kṛṣṇa was picked up,
and not the Pāṇḍavas?
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What is the reason?
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YOGEŚVARA: The Pāṇḍavas were the servants of Kṛṣṇa.
- Huh?
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The Pāṇḍavas were
the devotees of Kṛṣṇa.
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No, no; this anthropomorphism
cannot be applied.
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Their activities were not so great.
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Well, nobody’s activities can be
greater than God’s activities.
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There was that lady who came to
see you yesterday who asked that
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“Lord Jesus performed so many miracles;
so what miracles did Kṛṣṇa perform?”
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So your reply was so many
miracles, killing Putana and so on.
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But that was five
thousand years ago.
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Kṛṣṇa’s not here today.
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And people will ask, “Well we
cannot see these miracles.
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So how can we accept Kṛṣṇa?”
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BHAGAVĀN: Well they can’t
see Jesus’s miracles either.
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They can see the
miracles of Jesus Christ?
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They don’t accept anyone.
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All such questions.
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No sober questions.
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ATREYA ṚṢI: Kṛṣṇa’s miracles are
in the hearts of devotees today.
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Kṛṣṇa’s miracle is Bhagavad-gītā.
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Yes, everyone can see.
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Who has given such information?
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All practical.
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So, there are so many scriptures all over
the world, but just in the second chapter
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of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa gives more
knowledge than all of the other scriptures.
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Oh, yes.
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It is the greatest miracle.
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These trees: Not fruit trees?
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DHANAÑJAYA: No. [break]
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…in that “Okay, you present Bhagavad-
gītā as being the evidence for Kṛṣṇa,
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but so many people
interpret Bhagavad-gītā.
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So where is the proof that it is
miraculous if so many people debate it?”
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Huh?
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If so many people have to debate
the message of Bhagavad-gītā…
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What they will debate?
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- Well, someone [indistinct]…
- If they debate like rascal, that is another thing.
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If they debate like sane man, then there
cannot be any difference of opinion.
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Just like Kṛṣṇa says, annād
bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14].
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So, what is your debate on this point, that
living entities, they flourish by food grains.
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So what is your
debate on this point?
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Well, they may think… They may
agree that the teachings are good,
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but they can’t accept it as
proof that Kṛṣṇa was God.
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Well, what then… Then you have
to give me definition of God.
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What is God?
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If you know God, then you can
say that “Kṛṣṇa is not God.”
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Otherwise, how you
can say He is not God?
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I give you a piece of gold: If you say, “It is
not gold,” then you show me what is gold.
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Otherwise, you are
talking nonsense.
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If you do not know the things as it
is, how you can say, “It is not this”?
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If you know the positive, then
you can say the negative.
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Well, there are many people who say
that they have actually experienced God.
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What is that God?
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Tell me.
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Well, it’s like the Guru
Maharaji people.
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They say they’ve
seen Guru Maharaji
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lifting Govardhana Hill and displaying
universal form and so many miracles.
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They say they have
seen Guru Maharaji
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doing all the miracles that
Kṛṣṇa claims to have done.
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No, Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa is present, when He
lifted the Govardhana Hill, everyone saw.
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Where is your rascal Guru Mahārāja
doing that, everyone can see?
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When Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana,
He lifted the Govardhana Hill.
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All the inhabitants saw it. [break]
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…arising from Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes proves
that atheists cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.
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Because they are atheists, they
don’t want to accept Him as God.
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- Therefore they will not…
- Atheist do not accept God anywhere.
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So atheist is different thing.
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Atheist is atheist.
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Āsuriṁ; āsuriṁ bhāvam.
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Atheist has no knowledge. [splice]
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American luxury or European luxury
leading to these hippies’ poverty.
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Voluntarily they are
accepting poverty.
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Opposite.
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Sometimes this side;
sometimes that side.
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Pendulum.
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What is that?
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Cranes? Cranes.
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Cranes?
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Yes.
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The zoo.
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And there’s some South
American animals: Llamas. [break]
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…fight with tiger and elephants?
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Lions; lions.
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They would use a trident and a net
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and they would try to throw the net
over the lion and fight the lion like this.
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- And kill?
- And kill, yes.
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They would arm themselves with a helmet
and some protection here for their arms
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and sometimes for their chest, and then
they would attack with the trident. [break]
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Earlier Claudius.
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For enjoyment they would even put
two gladiators fighting each other,
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two men killing each other,
and they would all watch.
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That was in India also, that
Kaṁsa’s wrestling with Kṛṣṇa.
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- Was that to the death?
- Yes.
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It comes automatically to death.
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Although it is not meant.
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Nobody will agree
that “I am defeated.”
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Therefore death.
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There must be death.
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Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com