MW VRN 1975-12-11 Knowledge-To Find the Source
ANNOUNCER: The following is a morning walk conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
recorded on the 11th of December, 1975, in Vṛndāvana, India.
[splice] Prabhupāda, you know
the ISKCON centres you have started
they are just like actually Vaikuṇṭha, they are so nice.
Even the Gauḍīya Matha centres were not so nice.
Just like an installation of Vaikuṇṭha.
They’re so clean and nice [indistinct]
…help becoming devotees by visiting your centers.
Becomes almost automatic.
Follow the regulative principles, it will remain, always Vaikuṇṭha.
Otherwise again material world.
Yes.
Free hotel [laughs] That’s all.
And free hotel will not endure.
No.
Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]
By service spirit beginning with tongue Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Then everything is revealed, Vaikuṇṭha atmosphere…
AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Of course we accept, ah,
when you tell us to chant sixteen rounds, we accept that figure as being,
in perfect faith, that you’re the ācārya, but ah, what if others we wanted to convince,
is there any, any ah, śāstr…
Is there any Vedic verse we can refer to
to corroborate that at least they must chant sixteen rounds.
Or that many number of names?
No. In the śāstra it is not said like that… I see.
It is said, śaṅkhy-pūrvakaḥ… Śaṅkhy-pūrvakaḥ.
You must fix up.
Counting.
You must fix up in numerical strength.
I see.
Whatever you can.
Yes.
But I have fixed up sixteen rounds, because you cannot do.
AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: That’s all we can do.
[smiling, touch of irony] Yes.
That also is difficult.
Yes [laughing]
PRABHUPĀDA: Otherwise, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting 300,000.
So, that is not possible.
You should not imitate, but whatever you fix up you must do.
Yes.
That is wanted.
Yes.
I was told in the beginning you asked the first disciples to chant 64 rounds?
Yes.
Then you asked them to chant 32?
[grinning] Hm.
AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Is that correct?
saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ [Ṣaḍ-gosvāmy-aṣṭaka 6]
Śaṅkhya purva, or numerical strength must be there.
And you should follow rigidly.
So if, if we are serious and sincere, it means that that sixteen will increase to, ah,
to continuously chanting.
You can do also now.
It’s not that because I’ve finished sixteen rounds…
AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: No.
You can increase.
But that sixteen must be finished.
AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Yes [pause] What I mean is,
that’s to bring us to the platform of chanting constantly.
That at least we do that numerical number, finally we may be able to do,
if we’re fortunate to chant constantly day and night.
Yes. [splice]
They have now learned from the Western countries to run!
[jogger goes past] [laughs] And without caring for the field.
Hm?
Field working is very troublesome and this running is very easy.
HARI-ŚAURI: Running out of breath [pause] [splice]
Scientists say,
is there any living entity in the sun globe?
No.
They don’t, they say there’s nothing.
Simply everything here? Yes.
That’s what they say.
And especially in Europe and America!
[everyone laughs] Hare Kṛṣṇa!
They say there is nothing.
They have gone there?
They have seen?
AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Not very intelligent. [splice]
So who, who put all this energy there?
Where from nitrogen came?
JÑĀNA: That they don’t know.
Therefore they are rascals.
They do not know, something, and they are speaking on the subject matter.
Is it not nonsense?
HARIKEŚA: We know there’s no life on the sun because we can look at a fire here
and we see there’s no life.
But you are blind.
You have no eyes to see.
Well we have our instruments and we look through…
So what is the use of it?
Anything made by rascal, is that perfect?
Well it’s better than some mythological book!
No, book also, you write book and you want to believe, others your book.
That is also book.
Why do you write scientific book?
Well they’re proven, those other books…
What is proven? You cannot say what is the chemical there, wherefrom came.
Is that proof?
“We cannot say.”
Is that proof?
Well we know how they interact.
We may not know how they got here but we know what they do once they are here.
No… Knowledge means to find out the source.
That is knowledge.
Where from it comes.
There is a good example we studied in our childhood.
A child was very intelligent so he was beating on a drum,
so he was very much inquisitive, “Where from the sound is coming?”
Then he cut the surface… [laughing] That is intelligence.
Inquisitive… where from the sound is coming?
Although it was childish but that is innate intelligence.
Scientists are trying to do that.
They are taking…
And that is alright.
In future!
[laughter] SMARAHARI:
The scientists say that the sun is made of certain elements
and all the stars they are made of the same…
Then why don’t you make an imitation sun here?
At night so that you may save so many expenses.
So much expenses for electric.
The rascal. If you know the chemicals then you make it.
Ha? What do they say?
They say there are many suns… but…
That’s alright. Make you one sun, if you know!
Many suns but you have not made anyone of them.
You just try to make one, then I shall see your intelligence.
Huh? What do you say? Anybody?
AKṢAYĀNANDA They cannot do.
DEVOTEE (1) [WOMAN]: They don’t have enough power.
Huh?
Then why do you say nonsense!
If you have not enough power there must be somebody powerful than you—
you have to admit that—who has made all these things.
But you are rascal you have not… You are simply, ahh, what is called?
Speculating.
That in future we shall be powerful.
But the powerful is already there.
What is your credit?
More powerful, if you cannot conceive even how powerful He is.
And you are trying to become in future powerful, therefore you are a scientist.
Huh? Is that alright?
What is your value?
The already powerful is there, who has manufactured these things.
And you are expecting in future you’ll be powerful; therefore you are more powerful.
Just see their folly.
If you are powerful then make it, another imitation sun.
[half joking] I’m seriously speaking,
if we made another one the whole place would become too hot.
Hah.
So you are scientist, you protect yourself [laughter]
DEVOTEE (2): Scientists aren’t very intelligent because
today he big thing in the country politically is that whole world
thinks they are running out of energy on one hand,
and on the other hand the whole world believes
that the scientists can solve all the problems
and get to know the absolute truth but if they…
They are creating problems.
Yes, they’re creating problems.
[sounds of lots of birds in background] [stops] Birds and beasts,
they’re living without any scientists—they’re more happy.
But they’re freezing in the cold and they’re…
No, no one is freezing.
That is you are speaking but they are not freezing.
Even in the coldest part of the country, Greenland,
the animals are living quite nicely.
The birds and many animals.
But if we preach like that to them,
then they’ll say ‘then what’s wrong with becoming an animal then’?
Huh? But you are less than an animal.
Talking nonsense.
Put forward the problems, summarise janma-mṛtyu-jar-vyādhi [?].
solve these problems.
Well we can solve the problem of birth by just killing all the children.
[laughing] That is not solving, the birth is already there,
therefore you are killing [everyone laughing]
AKṢAYĀNANDA SWAMI: Birth is still there.
No. Because there is birth therefore you are killing.
So birth problem is not solved.
No, no, no. We’re killing before birth.
What is this before birth.
The child is already there… mother’s womb. Ah.
That is you rascal you can say.
Unless he has [sic] no life, how it is growing?
Such a rascal… It’s a lump.
…they cannot understand.
Does a dead child grow?
Simply speaking nonsense!
That’s their whole argument for abortion.
That’s alright but… You just finished it!
[laughing] PRABHUPĀDA: …but our point is, the birth problem is not solved.
If there are unwanted population,
you kill them that does not mean the population problem is solved.
They’re not actually seeing the actual causes of the problems.
Hm?
They’re not actually seeing the causes of the problems [splice]
Yes, that's why adjustment is not solution.
AKṢAYĀNANDA You said once,
putting a weight from your head and then on to your shoulders.
Ha?
You are carrying a heavy weight I remember you said once.
You’re carrying heavy weight here, to take the pain you put it here.
Then again back here.
But still the weight is there.
The scientists came up with another one for enjoyment.
That they cut this little cord that makes the sperm come into the semen
and in this way they can have sex life like anything and they’re actually not killing
[Man shouts greeting in background]
Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jai!
Jaya.
Semen, what is that? [splice]
So one may check, two may check, what about millions?
Supposing they can check in that way, it may be possible for one or two,
or a dozen, but what about millions and millions?
Nature’s way.
That’s if they, they’re doing this in…
In future.
That will solve in future.
They were giving prizes to people who are doing this.
Yes.
Like TV sets.
Mutual ‘present’ society [everyone laughing]
Hiraṇyakaśipu civilization,
and we are presenting Prahlāda civilization.
So this is a struggle, but ultimately Prahlāda will come out triumphant.
Hare Kṛṣṇa [to bystander] and Hiraṇyakaṣipu will be killed.
Jaya!
[Walks into temple] [end].
Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com