MW WDC 1976-07-05 Bengalis--Spoiled by Vivekananda
The following is a morning walk conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,
recorded on the 5th of July, 1976,
in Washington, D.C.
SVARŪPA DĀMODARA: I was going to ask that this soul,
nature of the soul, we find that…
PRABHUPĀDA: Salt? - No, no, the soul, the ātmā, jīva.
We get a description that the soul,
the size of a soul is one ten- thousandth part of the tip of the hair.
We were just discussing whether does this imply that it can be measured.
Yes.
This is the measurement.
But we are claiming that it is nonphysical.
Nonphysical, that doesn’t mean it has no measurement. [splice]
So measurement…
Actually, Sadāputa calculated from how much the size is.
Now from electron microscope, actually we can get an idea about the tip of the hair,
how much it is.
Now you divide it by one ten-thousandth part,
so it will come out the size of the soul is about two angstroms,
by calculation like that.
- Two atoms? - No, angstroms.
Angstrom is the smallest scale that science can imagine.
And it is smaller even than the hydrogen atom.
So actually it is atomic, it is very small in size.
Yes.
But we were wondering whether that is reasonable.
Reasonable, yes; It is given in Upaniṣads and Padma Purāṇa, authorized.
RŪPĀNUGA: It’s just that this one ten- thousandth tip of hair has no
material quality.
It is nonphysical but still can be measured.
Nonphysical…
Just like axiomatic truth point has no length, no breadth,
but it has length and breadth.
You cannot measure it.
But does this not imply—one ten- thousandth the size—that doesn’t a…
does not imply… imply measurement, that it can be measured?
Measure… measurement is there. [splice]
keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya…
jīvaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa cānantyāya… [Cc. Madhya 19.140] [splice]
If it is not so small, how in the microbe there can be soul?
Yeah, it is a small.
- This is the falls? DEVOTEE: Yeah. [splice]
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Little flies.
They can manufacture aeroplanes like this with pilot.
But they can manufacture bigger ones.
That’s all right.
Do it.
PUṢṬA KṚṢṆA: Start with little ones.
What will be the technique to attract the Bengali educational class?
Hmm?
To attract the Bengalis who are educated, what techniques will be most effective?
This kīrtana and prasāda distribution.
But it seems that, to me, they are not so much interested.
- Hmm? - This a…
There was a… A man came from Calcutta… This a… About two months ago, a Bengali,
and in fact a… We were class friends in Calcutta when I was studying in Calcutta.
And I… Actually I discussed this problem with him:
Why a… So-called Bengali intellectuals are not attracted to our movement.
His answer was that the Caitanya movement is mostly for less intellectuals.
For those who are educated,
they want to be followers of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda.
In fact, they have a society called Vedanta Society.
- All the Bengalis get together in the… - And waste their time.
- Yeah, and they discuss a… - The rascals waste their…
So I was a little mad at him, this friend.
Because the real fact is they do not want to give up meat-eating and fish-eating.
Therefore they like Vivekananda.
That is the real reason.
And Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s movement, Vaiṣṇava,
they have to give up so many things.
That is the disease of the Bengalis.
And Vivekananda is recognized only in Bengal.
To some part, not all.
There is also a small Vedanta Society here in Washington.
- Yes. - And
I had one of our Indian associates, [splice]
and he said they could not even discuss the topics of Bhagavad-gītā.
They had no conclusions.
They were arguing in their own meeting,
and no one had any… any idea what Bhagavad-gītā
was on so many technical points. [splice]
They cannot understand.
…vinā paśughnāt nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt [SB 10.1.4]
They will have no access.
I think there must be a fundamental mistake in their outlook.
Their life is a mistake, because they are sinful.
Their life is a mistake.
Misguided.
This fellow is a chemist, and actually he’s very intelligent,
and he has read all the Gītās, and a…
and he has a… studied in many a… a… a thoughts on Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
First of all, we have to talk with them about this:
“What is life?”
Then they will talk.
If they are on the concept… bodily conception of life,
they are animals.
Which is not… First of all, you have to talk with them on this platform,
“What is life.”
Identification.
To me, I… my feeling was that they somewhat look down.
They look down in their feeling.
- Look down? HARI-ŚAURI: They think they’re superior.
- Huh? - They think that they are superior.
But you did not talk with him and argue?
- Yeah, I argued. - “What is life.”
Well, ultimately he has to accept that, our philosophy.
They have become less intelligent on account of their bad habits.
So, this man… There’s a Professor Mitra.
He’s in Emory University in Department of Sociology.
They claim he’s a Vedāntist, and they have a group.
And then this Das, actually his name was Das,
he told me that he has Śrīla Prabhupāda’s Bhagavad-gītā As It Is
and he worships, he recites every day, and he a…
He told me that he praises very much, that it’s the best Gītā he has seen.
So though he’s involved in something else, but still he’s taking Śrīla Prabhupāda’s.
Any man who is reasonable, he’ll come.
If he’s animal, he cannot come. [splice]
First charge is that anyone who is in bodily concept of life, he’s animal.
First of all, refute.
If you are thinking that “I am this body,“ “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,”
“I am American,” “I am this,” “I am that,“ then you are animal.
This is our first charge.
What they will answer?
What is the difference?
If a dog is thinking “I am dog,”
and I am thinking “I am Indian” or “American,” what is the difference?
What is the difference between the dog and the man? [splice]
So it seems to be that we need some strong preaching in Calcutta, in Bengal.
We want to attract some intellectuals. [splice]
My concern here, staying here in Atlanta,
there are many Bengali families, but they never come to the temple.
See, there was our Life Member program,
and so many prabhus are going to make Life Members, and these Bengalis,
they don’t even a… have even some respect.
But it is… I was a little a… a… Seeing their motto [?], I was a little disappointed.
Because you will ask them not to eat meat… [splice]
At our Māyāpur Candrodaya Mandir, though, lakhs of people are coming.
Yes.
Yes, it is, but the common people.
Ordinary people.
Because they are godless, they are uncommon.
Educated Bengalis, they are spoiled.
Yes.
I’ll tell you what my feeling was: They do not want to stop eating meat.
- That is the only… - I think that is the main reason.
That is the main reason.
And Vivekananda says whatever you like, you can eat.
Yeah, yata mata tata patha.
He said; they claim like this also.
They follow like that.
Spoiled.
Bengalis are spoiled.
Our request is they should join, and they should help us in spreading the mission.
…duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]
They [are] narādhamas.
Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com