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MW WDC 1976-07-05 Bengalis--Spoiled by Vivekananda
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The following is a morning
walk conversation
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,
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recorded on the 5th of July, 1976,
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in Washington, D.C.
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SVARŪPA DĀMODARA: I was
going to ask that this soul,
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nature of the soul, we find that…
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PRABHUPĀDA: Salt?
- No, no, the soul, the ātmā, jīva.
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We get a description that the soul,
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the size of a soul is one ten-
thousandth part of the tip of the hair.
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We were just discussing whether does
this imply that it can be measured.
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Yes.
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This is the measurement.
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But we are claiming
that it is nonphysical.
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Nonphysical, that doesn’t mean
it has no measurement. [splice]
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So measurement…
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Actually, Sadāputa calculated
from how much the size is.
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Now from electron microscope, actually we
can get an idea about the tip of the hair,
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how much it is.
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Now you divide it by one
ten-thousandth part,
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so it will come out the size of
the soul is about two angstroms,
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by calculation like that.
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- Two atoms?
- No, angstroms.
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Angstrom is the smallest scale
that science can imagine.
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And it is smaller even
than the hydrogen atom.
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So actually it is atomic,
it is very small in size.
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Yes.
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But we were wondering
whether that is reasonable.
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Reasonable, yes; It is given in Upaniṣads
and Padma Purāṇa, authorized.
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RŪPĀNUGA: It’s just that this one ten-
thousandth tip of hair has no
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material quality.
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It is nonphysical but
still can be measured.
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Nonphysical…
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Just like axiomatic truth point
has no length, no breadth,
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but it has length and breadth.
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You cannot measure it.
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But does this not imply—one ten-
thousandth the size—that doesn’t a…
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does not imply… imply measurement,
that it can be measured?
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Measure… measurement
is there. [splice]
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keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
śatadhā kalpitasya…
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jīvaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa
cānantyāya…
[Cc. Madhya 19.140] [splice]
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If it is not so small, how in the
microbe there can be soul?
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Yeah, it is a small.
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- This is the falls?
DEVOTEE: Yeah. [splice]
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Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Little flies.
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They can manufacture
aeroplanes like this with pilot.
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But they can
manufacture bigger ones.
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That’s all right.
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Do it.
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PUṢṬA KṚṢṆA: Start
with little ones.
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What will be the technique to attract
the Bengali educational class?
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Hmm?
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To attract the Bengalis who are educated,
what techniques will be most effective?
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This kīrtana and
prasāda distribution.
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But it seems that, to me, they
are not so much interested.
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- Hmm?
- This a…
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There was a… A man came from Calcutta…
This a… About two months ago, a Bengali,
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and in fact a… We were class friends in
Calcutta when I was studying in Calcutta.
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And I… Actually I discussed
this problem with him:
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Why a… So-called Bengali intellectuals
are not attracted to our movement.
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His answer was that the Caitanya
movement is mostly for less intellectuals.
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For those who are educated,
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they want to be followers of
Ramakrishna and Vivekananda.
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In fact, they have a society
called Vedanta Society.
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- All the Bengalis get together in the…
- And waste their time.
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- Yeah, and they discuss a…
- The rascals waste their…
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So I was a little mad
at him, this friend.
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Because the real fact is they do not want
to give up meat-eating and fish-eating.
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Therefore they like Vivekananda.
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That is the real reason.
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And Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s
movement, Vaiṣṇava,
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they have to give
up so many things.
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That is the disease of the Bengalis.
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And Vivekananda is
recognized only in Bengal.
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To some part, not all.
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There is also a small Vedanta
Society here in Washington.
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- Yes.
- And
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I had one of our Indian
associates, [splice]
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and he said they could not even
discuss the topics of Bhagavad-gītā.
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They had no conclusions.
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They were arguing in
their own meeting,
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and no one had any… any
idea what Bhagavad-gītā
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was on so many
technical points. [splice]
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They cannot understand.
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…vinā paśughnāt
nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt
[SB 10.1.4]
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They will have no access.
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I think there must be a fundamental
mistake in their outlook.
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Their life is a mistake,
because they are sinful.
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Their life is a mistake.
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Misguided.
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This fellow is a chemist, and
actually he’s very intelligent,
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and he has read all
the Gītās, and a…
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and he has a… studied in many a… a…
a thoughts on Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
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First of all, we have to
talk with them about this:
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“What is life?”
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Then they will talk.
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If they are on the concept…
bodily conception of life,
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they are animals.
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Which is not… First of all, you have
to talk with them on this platform,
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“What is life.”
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Identification.
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To me, I… my feeling was that
they somewhat look down.
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They look down in their feeling.
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- Look down?
HARI-ŚAURI: They think they’re superior.
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- Huh?
- They think that they are superior.
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But you did not talk
with him and argue?
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- Yeah, I argued.
- “What is life.”
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Well, ultimately he has to
accept that, our philosophy.
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They have become less intelligent
on account of their bad habits.
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So, this man… There’s
a Professor Mitra.
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He’s in Emory University in
Department of Sociology.
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They claim he’s a Vedāntist,
and they have a group.
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And then this Das,
actually his name was Das,
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he told me that he has Śrīla
Prabhupāda’s Bhagavad-gītā As It Is
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and he worships, he recites
every day, and he a…
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He told me that he praises very much,
that it’s the best Gītā he has seen.
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So though he’s involved in something else,
but still he’s taking Śrīla Prabhupāda’s.
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Any man who is
reasonable, he’ll come.
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If he’s animal, he
cannot come. [splice]
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First charge is that anyone who is in
bodily concept of life, he’s animal.
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First of all, refute.
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If you are thinking that “I am this
body,“ “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,”
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“I am American,” “I am this,” “I
am that,“ then you are animal.
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This is our first charge.
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What they will answer?
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What is the difference?
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If a dog is thinking “I am dog,”
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and I am thinking “I am Indian” or
“American,” what is the difference?
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What is the difference between
the dog and the man? [splice]
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So it seems to be that we need some
strong preaching in Calcutta, in Bengal.
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We want to attract some
intellectuals. [splice]
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My concern here,
staying here in Atlanta,
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there are many Bengali families,
but they never come to the temple.
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See, there was our
Life Member program,
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and so many prabhus are going to
make Life Members, and these Bengalis,
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they don’t even a… have
even some respect.
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But it is… I was a little a… a… Seeing their
motto [?], I was a little disappointed.
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Because you will ask them
not to eat meat… [splice]
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At our Māyāpur Candrodaya Mandir,
though, lakhs of people are coming.
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Yes.
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Yes, it is, but the common people.
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Ordinary people.
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Because they are godless,
they are uncommon.
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Educated Bengalis,
they are spoiled.
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Yes.
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I’ll tell you what my feeling was: They
do not want to stop eating meat.
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- That is the only…
- I think that is the main reason.
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That is the main reason.
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And Vivekananda says
whatever you like, you can eat.
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Yeah, yata mata tata patha.
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He said; they claim like this also.
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They follow like that.
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Spoiled.
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Bengalis are spoiled.
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Our request is they should join, and they
should help us in spreading the mission.
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…duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
[Bg. 7.15]
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They [are] narādhamas.
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