RC BOM 1977-04-01 From Skyscraper Constructor to --etc
ANNOUNCER: Next is a conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
recorded on April 1st, 1977, in Bombay, India.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So your answer to his question,
“Do you consider the message of Jesus Christ to be universal?”
You say yes.
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Because he says, “Thou shalt not kill.”
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: But none of them are following.
PRABHUPĀDA: No, all bogus.
And going on in the name of Christian.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: And he says he lived in our temples,
but he is not satisfied with the Christian faith,
but he is finding a great deal of satisfaction now living in our temples.
PRABHUPĀDA: First of all become Christian,
that you are following all the ten commandments.
“Judge not others lest you be judged.”
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: His second question is,
“Considering that the Bible describes Jesus as the savior of the people of God,
not only of Israel but of every man’s sins,
does it not minimize his actual position to say that he is simply an avatāra,
and does it not contradict the teachings of the Bible…?”
First of all he says isn’t that minimizing him to say that he’s an avatāra?
PRABHUPĀDA: We accept him as avatāra, śaktyāveśa-avatāra,
empowered incarnation of God.
That we accept.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah.
He says, “Like any other revealed scripture, the Bible’s teachings are absolute,
but are they to be understood literally or symbolically,
and are they applicable for all men?”
PRABHUPĀDA: Literally, not symbolically.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says, “What is the actual meaning
of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?”
PRABHUPĀDA: It has no meaning.
The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him.
Because he was speaking of God.
So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were.
He had to deal with such rascals
that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first.
He preached, “Thou shalt not kill,” and they killed him first.
This is their intelligence.
Now people are advanced.
Those doctrines, they are not [indistinct]. That’s all. The answer.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says,
“Did Jesus die on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?”
PRABHUPĀDA: This is another sinful thought—
Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities.
That’s a plea, what is called plea for the sinners,
that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract.
This is most sinful conviction.
Instead of stopping sinful activities,
we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins
unless they stop sinning.
PRABHUPĀDA: Then what is the use of his preaching?
They will continue sinful activities,
and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them.
How nonsense idea this is!
Bhavānanda, do you think it is good idea?
BHAVĀNANDA: Not a good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
PRABHUPĀDA: Nonsense rascals.
These people should be immediately hanged.
“Our religion is very good.” What is that?
“We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us.”
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Rascals.
PRABHUPĀDA: How rascaldom it is!
Nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ [?].
Nāma-aparādha.
“I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so no sinful action will be.”
It is like that.
That means “I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian,
become a Vaiṣṇava, become a chanter.”
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Nāma-aparādha.
PRABHUPĀDA: See whether I am answering correct.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Oh, you are answering very good.
He gives a lot of quotations from the Bible.
So I’ll just read you two of them, and it is very easy to…
PRABHUPĀDA: What is the use of giving me quotations from…?
We are talking about practical things. TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah.
The only point I was going to bring out was that
it is clear how they misread the Bible.
Just like one of them says,
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son,
that whoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
But you pointed out that to believe means to follow his teachings.
That they don’t understand.
They say, “We believe in Jesus,” but they don’t follow his teachings.
PRABHUPĀDA: Then where is his belief?
Where is the question of belief?
Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief.
It is bogus principle.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah, it’s all… His next question is,
“The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our saviour and redeemer,
but the final test of one’s faith in Christ rests upon one’s hope
that he will come back down to earth from heaven
to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever.
Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one,
or will he actually come back?”
PRABHUPĀDA: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: What does he say? PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Well, he quotes,
“And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven,
and then shall all the tribes of earth mourn
and they shall see the son of man
coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
In other words… “And shall he send…”
There is so many statements in the Bible to allude that Christ will come again.
PRABHUPĀDA: What is the harm if he comes again?
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Practically that is the whole basis
of the Christians’ faith is they are awaiting
the day when Christ will come. PRABHUPĀDA: For the time being,
you follow what he has said. Rather, what is the use of waiting for him?
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: Yeah, if you don’t follow what he said,
then even if he comes he won’t take you.
He says if that happens, if Christ comes back,
what will be the position of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu
and His Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?
Nasty question. PRABHUPĀDA: That you shall see when he comes.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: [laughs] That we shall see when he comes.
Right.
For the time being the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here.
Next question: “What is this end of the world?”
Then he says, “In your…”
PRABHUPĀDA: The world will be devastated,
and everything material… Your body is there.
It is being maintained, and it will be finished.
Similarly, the whole world body will be done in the same way.
There is no other way.
It is created, it is maintained, and it is finished.
Naśa. It is called naśa in Sanskrit.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: What is that, n-a-s-s, naśa?
PRABHUPĀDA: N- a-s-h-a. No—n-a-s.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: N-a-s means?
PRABHUPĀDA: Naśa means devastated, finished.
Apakṣaya-naśa.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says,
“In your introduction to the Bhagavad- gītā you refer to Hinduism, Buddhism,
Christianism and other religious faiths as sectarian designations,
but isn’t Kṛṣṇa consciousness just another kind of designation
in order not to call it Kṛṣṇa-ism, another ism?”
PRABHUPĀDA: No.
That you have to understand later on.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: “What is the difference between a pure Christian,
or at least a sincere one, and a sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa?”
PRABHUPĀDA: No difference.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: He says he read a passage of the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa
written by Vyāsadeva three thousand years before Christ
foretelling Jesus Christ’s presence in the Himalayas in 78 of the Christian era,
and his meeting with King Shalamoyi.[?]
Are there any other prophecies in the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa
or in any other scriptures telling more accurately Jesus Christ’s birthday?
PRABHUPĀDA: Everything is accurate there.
TAMĀLA KṚṢṆA: In that particular Purāṇa?
He says he is sorry to take your very precious time,
and he prays that you answer all of his questions, which you have done.
So he thanks you very much for reading this letter and for your expected help.
He asks one last question in a P.S, which I think is practically an important question.
He says,
“To practically follow Jesus Christ for a sincere searcher of the truth
who does not recognize
and accept the external manifestations of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement,
is it possible to attain love of God?”
No.
PRABHUPĀDA: Love of God means God’s mercy.
If God is pleased, He can do anything.
So that pleasure of God can be awakened by love.
This is called in Sanskrit kṛpā-siddhi.
Perfection out of affection.
Out of mercy.
Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com