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RC BOM 1977-04-17 Beyond Sense Perception
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ANNOUNCER: The
following is a conversation
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on April 17th,
1977 in Bombay India.
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PRABHUPĀDA: Now you have given
the evolution of from fish to plant,
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plant to insect, bird, animal.
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That can be [a] little
elaborated: Evolution.
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Then human being:
Full consciousness.
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Now, this is the chance
for understanding God.
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And if they are still kept in darkness like
the animals, that’s a dangerous civilization—
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refusing the opportunity
to the humanity.
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By knowing this, you can get out of
this continual evolutionary process.
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That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha
world, where you can actually live.
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na jāyate na mriyate vā
[Bg. 2.20]
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He does not take birth, neither
dies, but dances with Kṛṣṇa.
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That is life.
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That we are wanting.
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We are seeking after.
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It is not possible here.
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Here you have to go through
the evolutionary process
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again and again if you don’t take the
opportunity for going back to home.
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Then it is your misfortune.
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So this civilization [is] keeping people
in their unfortunate condition.
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mām aprāpya nivartante
mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani
[Bg. 9.3]
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This opportunity is to understand
God and go back to Him,
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but that opportunity
is being refused.
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Therefore he is returning again to
the same position of birth and death.
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From animal to man, from
man to…: Up and down.
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But, dehāntara, that
is very dangerous.
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Tathā dehāntara: You have
to change your [body].
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Stop this.
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If you are scientist, stop it.
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Continue as American forever.
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Why you cannot?
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Why you are so proud of your
so-called scientific education?
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Then you are under control.
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You have constructed
this skyscraper building.
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Live here forever.
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Why don’t you live?
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Kicked out.
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In the same house can
become a cockroach
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because you have got attachment.
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“All right.
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Live here as cockroach.”
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Who can check it?
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Cockroach is also life.
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Dehāntara.
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The proprietor
becomes cockroach.
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Can you check it?
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Nature will do.
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Now we are proprietor;
next life a cockroach.
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“Live here in your
skyscraper building.”
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How much valuable time he has wasted
by constructing this skyscraper building.
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He remains there in the photograph,
and actually his life is in the commode.
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Cockroach.
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He is living in the commode, and his
son’s worshiping his photograph.
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This is called ignorance.
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Very misleading civilization this is.
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So we are trying to save everyone
from this misleading civilization.
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This is Kṛṣṇa
consciousness movement.
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We are trying ourself to be perfect
and trying to teach others perfect life.
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Kṛṣṇa begins His teaching from this
understanding: “You are not this body.”
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This is beginning
of Bhagavad-gītā.
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And in the bodily concept of life,
where is spiritual knowledge?
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They talk of spiritual, that life is…
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First of all one has to understand
that “I am not this body.”
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Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
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athāto brahma jijṣāsā.
[Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.1]
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“Then if I am Brahman,
then what is my value?
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So far I have led my bodily
concept of life, but I am Brahman.”
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Then brahma-jijñāsā.
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athāto brahma jijṣāsā
[Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.1]
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How Brahman lives, how Brahman is
produced, what is his real life. [splice]
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What about
transmigration of the soul?
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As a… We were thinking
to do that for a next film,
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- because it seems like a very natural thing.
- Transmigration, how it can be shown?
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The mind, intelligence
and ego you cannot see.
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But you will have to
accept there is mind.
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We have not really
worked out any details.
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Details, you cannot show it.
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It is so fine.
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Just like here is the sky,
but you cannot see it.
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The mind is finer than the sky.
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The air is sky.
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That is sky.
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Where is the proof?
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That you cannot see.
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Śabda, sound.
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Sound is the sign
of presence of sky.
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But you cannot [see it].
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But it is there; this is the proof.
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It can be suggested only.
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That’s all.
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Therefore śruti, which is
beyond the sense perception,
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you have to hear
it from authorities.
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- Just like in the…
- That is knowledge.
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Who has seen it? These
rascals… Who has seen it?
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So grossly educated.
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“Everything can be seen.”
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Why everything?
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The same example we give:
You have not seen your father.
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You have to hear,
“Here is your father.”
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That’s all.
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That is the proof.
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Just like in this last film, we suggested
that there is a soul in the hand sequence—
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when the hands were always
changing, and the body grows old.
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So the idea was that there is
something that’s not changing there.
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So in film there are certain
techniques we can use to suggest,
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as Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami
said, certain ideas.
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Idea’s that… Idea is given there.
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Just like you cannot see the flavor, but
still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice.
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In the air, it is rose flavor.
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It is passing.
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You cannot see what is that flavor and
how it is being carried, but you can smell.
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Similarly, the soul is being carried
by the mind, ego and intelligence.
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You cannot see [it],
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but you have to understand by
hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa.
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…itas tu…
viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām
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jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho
[Bg. 7.5]
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Beyond this material things,
there is another prakṛti.
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That is the…
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That does not die.
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na jāyate na mriyate
[Bg. 2.20]
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And that is being carried by
mind, intelligence and ego.
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By our gross eyes, we see the
body is burnt into ashes, finished.
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Soul and everything is finished.
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The atheist will say like that.
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bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya
tataḥ punar āgamano
[?]
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“Everybody’s already burnt into ashes,
who is coming and who are going?”
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The atheists.
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Kṛṣṇa does not say.
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No.
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na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
[Bg. 2.20]
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So will you accept
the atheists or Kṛṣṇa?
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That is our process.
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Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com