0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,429 RC BOM 1977-04-17 Beyond Sense Perception 1 00:00:01,430 --> 00:00:03,669 ANNOUNCER: The following is a conversation 2 00:00:03,670 --> 00:00:09,239 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:17,769 recorded on April 17th, 1977 in Bombay India. 4 00:00:17,770 --> 00:00:26,479 PRABHUPĀDA: Now you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:34,159 plant to insect, bird, animal. 6 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:41,259 That can be [a] little elaborated: Evolution. 7 00:00:41,260 --> 00:00:46,839 Then human being: Full consciousness. 8 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:56,540 Now, this is the chance for understanding God. 9 00:00:56,541 --> 00:01:07,120 And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that’s a dangerous civilization— 10 00:01:07,121 --> 00:01:16,040 refusing the opportunity to the humanity. 11 00:01:16,041 --> 00:01:26,840 By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. 12 00:01:26,841 --> 00:01:34,890 That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. 13 00:01:34,891 --> 00:01:38,660 na jāyate na mriyate vā [Bg. 2.20] 14 00:01:38,661 --> 00:01:47,200 He does not take birth, neither dies, but dances with Kṛṣṇa. 15 00:01:47,201 --> 00:01:50,970 That is life. 16 00:01:50,971 --> 00:01:52,470 That we are wanting. 17 00:01:52,471 --> 00:01:54,870 We are seeking after. 18 00:01:54,871 --> 00:01:59,041 It is not possible here. 19 00:01:59,042 --> 00:02:03,478 Here you have to go through the evolutionary process 20 00:02:03,479 --> 00:02:11,631 again and again if you don’t take the opportunity for going back to home. 21 00:02:11,632 --> 00:02:14,061 Then it is your misfortune. 22 00:02:14,062 --> 00:02:24,501 So this civilization [is] keeping people in their unfortunate condition. 23 00:02:24,502 --> 00:02:31,331 mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3] 24 00:02:31,332 --> 00:02:37,281 This opportunity is to understand God and go back to Him, 25 00:02:37,282 --> 00:02:40,371 but that opportunity is being refused. 26 00:02:40,372 --> 00:02:50,631 Therefore he is returning again to the same position of birth and death. 27 00:02:50,632 --> 00:02:59,141 From animal to man, from man to…: Up and down. 28 00:02:59,142 --> 00:03:02,831 But, dehāntara, that is very dangerous. 29 00:03:02,832 --> 00:03:08,002 Tathā dehāntara: You have to change your [body]. 30 00:03:08,003 --> 00:03:10,012 Stop this. 31 00:03:10,013 --> 00:03:13,342 If you are scientist, stop it. 32 00:03:13,343 --> 00:03:15,782 Continue as American forever. 33 00:03:15,783 --> 00:03:18,912 Why you cannot? 34 00:03:18,913 --> 00:03:31,222 Why you are so proud of your so-called scientific education? 35 00:03:31,223 --> 00:03:38,892 Then you are under control. 36 00:03:38,893 --> 00:03:42,092 You have constructed this skyscraper building. 37 00:03:42,093 --> 00:03:43,652 Live here forever. 38 00:03:43,653 --> 00:03:45,202 Why don’t you live? 39 00:03:45,203 --> 00:03:47,492 Kicked out. 40 00:03:47,493 --> 00:03:51,798 In the same house can become a cockroach 41 00:03:51,799 --> 00:03:53,702 because you have got attachment. 42 00:03:53,703 --> 00:03:54,403 “All right. 43 00:03:54,404 --> 00:03:59,174 Live here as cockroach.” 44 00:03:59,175 --> 00:04:02,553 Who can check it? 45 00:04:02,554 --> 00:04:05,373 Cockroach is also life. 46 00:04:05,374 --> 00:04:07,493 Dehāntara. 47 00:04:07,494 --> 00:04:11,403 The proprietor becomes cockroach. 48 00:04:11,404 --> 00:04:14,103 Can you check it? 49 00:04:14,104 --> 00:04:17,733 Nature will do. 50 00:04:17,734 --> 00:04:20,883 Now we are proprietor; next life a cockroach. 51 00:04:20,884 --> 00:04:28,273 “Live here in your skyscraper building.” 52 00:04:28,274 --> 00:04:40,293 How much valuable time he has wasted by constructing this skyscraper building. 53 00:04:40,294 --> 00:04:51,303 He remains there in the photograph, and actually his life is in the commode. 54 00:04:51,304 --> 00:04:54,133 Cockroach. 55 00:04:54,134 --> 00:05:01,583 He is living in the commode, and his son’s worshiping his photograph. 56 00:05:01,584 --> 00:05:21,353 This is called ignorance. 57 00:05:21,354 --> 00:05:30,584 Very misleading civilization this is. 58 00:05:30,585 --> 00:05:42,634 So we are trying to save everyone from this misleading civilization. 59 00:05:42,635 --> 00:05:47,544 This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. 60 00:05:47,545 --> 00:06:14,554 We are trying ourself to be perfect and trying to teach others perfect life. 61 00:06:14,555 --> 00:06:26,244 Kṛṣṇa begins His teaching from this understanding: “You are not this body.” 62 00:06:26,245 --> 00:06:36,074 This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. 63 00:06:36,075 --> 00:06:41,174 And in the bodily concept of life, where is spiritual knowledge? 64 00:06:41,175 --> 00:06:46,584 They talk of spiritual, that life is… 65 00:06:46,585 --> 00:06:56,434 First of all one has to understand that “I am not this body.” 66 00:06:56,435 --> 00:07:01,824 Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. 67 00:07:01,825 --> 00:07:03,244 athāto brahma jijṣāsā. [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.1] 68 00:07:03,245 --> 00:07:08,934 “Then if I am Brahman, then what is my value? 69 00:07:08,935 --> 00:07:14,264 So far I have led my bodily concept of life, but I am Brahman.” 70 00:07:14,265 --> 00:07:16,744 Then brahma-jijñāsā. 71 00:07:16,745 --> 00:07:20,035 athāto brahma jijṣāsā [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.1] 72 00:07:20,036 --> 00:07:39,215 How Brahman lives, how Brahman is produced, what is his real life. [splice] 73 00:07:39,216 --> 00:07:42,215 What about transmigration of the soul? 74 00:07:42,216 --> 00:07:46,115 As a… We were thinking to do that for a next film, 75 00:07:46,116 --> 00:07:52,865 - because it seems like a very natural thing. - Transmigration, how it can be shown? 76 00:07:52,866 --> 00:08:04,595 The mind, intelligence and ego you cannot see. 77 00:08:04,596 --> 00:08:09,575 But you will have to accept there is mind. 78 00:08:09,576 --> 00:08:12,332 We have not really worked out any details. 79 00:08:12,333 --> 00:08:15,032 Details, you cannot show it. 80 00:08:15,033 --> 00:08:18,302 It is so fine. 81 00:08:18,303 --> 00:08:23,442 Just like here is the sky, but you cannot see it. 82 00:08:23,443 --> 00:08:28,702 The mind is finer than the sky. 83 00:08:28,703 --> 00:08:31,442 The air is sky. 84 00:08:31,443 --> 00:08:32,772 That is sky. 85 00:08:32,773 --> 00:08:34,933 Where is the proof? 86 00:08:34,934 --> 00:08:37,493 That you cannot see. 87 00:08:37,494 --> 00:08:40,373 Śabda, sound. 88 00:08:40,374 --> 00:08:47,423 Sound is the sign of presence of sky. 89 00:08:47,424 --> 00:08:51,283 But you cannot [see it]. 90 00:08:51,284 --> 00:08:55,543 But it is there; this is the proof. 91 00:08:55,544 --> 00:08:57,293 It can be suggested only. 92 00:08:57,294 --> 00:08:59,683 That’s all. 93 00:08:59,684 --> 00:09:04,163 Therefore śruti, which is beyond the sense perception, 94 00:09:04,164 --> 00:09:16,763 you have to hear it from authorities. 95 00:09:16,764 --> 00:09:20,833 - Just like in the… - That is knowledge. 96 00:09:20,834 --> 00:09:27,513 Who has seen it? These rascals… Who has seen it? 97 00:09:27,514 --> 00:09:35,143 So grossly educated. 98 00:09:35,144 --> 00:09:37,733 “Everything can be seen.” 99 00:09:37,734 --> 00:09:43,364 Why everything? 100 00:09:43,365 --> 00:09:47,104 The same example we give: You have not seen your father. 101 00:09:47,105 --> 00:09:49,084 You have to hear, “Here is your father.” 102 00:09:49,085 --> 00:09:52,854 That’s all. 103 00:09:52,855 --> 00:10:00,044 That is the proof. 104 00:10:00,045 --> 00:10:06,794 Just like in this last film, we suggested that there is a soul in the hand sequence— 105 00:10:06,795 --> 00:10:10,574 when the hands were always changing, and the body grows old. 106 00:10:10,575 --> 00:10:16,614 So the idea was that there is something that’s not changing there. 107 00:10:16,615 --> 00:10:21,334 So in film there are certain techniques we can use to suggest, 108 00:10:21,335 --> 00:10:26,704 as Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami said, certain ideas. 109 00:10:26,705 --> 00:10:30,814 Idea’s that… Idea is given there. 110 00:10:30,815 --> 00:10:42,294 Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. 111 00:10:42,295 --> 00:10:45,954 In the air, it is rose flavor. 112 00:10:45,955 --> 00:10:48,204 It is passing. 113 00:10:48,205 --> 00:11:08,445 You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. 114 00:11:08,446 --> 00:11:15,585 Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. 115 00:11:15,586 --> 00:11:18,205 You cannot see [it], 116 00:11:18,206 --> 00:11:33,235 but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa. 117 00:11:33,236 --> 00:11:35,970 …itas tu… viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām 118 00:11:35,971 --> 00:11:38,505 jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho [Bg. 7.5] 119 00:11:38,506 --> 00:11:43,125 Beyond this material things, there is another prakṛti. 120 00:11:43,126 --> 00:11:48,855 That is the… 121 00:11:48,856 --> 00:11:50,005 That does not die. 122 00:11:50,006 --> 00:11:55,395 na jāyate na mriyate [Bg. 2.20] 123 00:11:55,396 --> 00:11:59,945 And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. 124 00:11:59,946 --> 00:12:07,995 By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. 125 00:12:07,996 --> 00:12:11,425 Soul and everything is finished. 126 00:12:11,426 --> 00:12:13,605 The atheist will say like that. 127 00:12:13,606 --> 00:12:17,746 bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya tataḥ punar āgamano [?] 128 00:12:17,747 --> 00:12:24,526 “Everybody’s already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?” 129 00:12:24,527 --> 00:12:27,586 The atheists. 130 00:12:27,587 --> 00:12:29,246 Kṛṣṇa does not say. 131 00:12:29,247 --> 00:12:30,126 No. 132 00:12:30,127 --> 00:12:32,356 na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20] 133 00:12:32,357 --> 00:12:37,086 So will you accept the atheists or Kṛṣṇa? 134 00:12:37,087 --> 00:12:45,024 That is our process. 135 00:12:45,025 --> 00:12:45,026 Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com