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RC JOH 1975-10-21 Border Between Matter & Spirit
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ANNOUNCER: The following
is a room conversation,
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with His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on October 21st,
1975, in Durban, South Africa.
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GUEST: The questions in
order is… The first one is,
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“Within Vedic culture, what
is meant by bhakti-yoga?”
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- The second one… Shall we take it in…
PRABHUPĀDA: Yes.
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You just learn it first of all.
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Vedic culture is that
we are living entities.
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Some way or other, we have
fallen in this material world
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and encaged in this
body or other body.
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So material world
means the spirit soul is
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wandering throughout the
universe under material conditions.
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And the Vedic knowledge is to get
him out of this material condition
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and take him again
to the spiritual world.
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This is Vedic knowledge.
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And bhakti…
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Bhakti-yoga is the direct method.
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There are many
methods recommended.
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Karma, jñāna, yoga,
and at last bhakti.
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They are different steps of the
same staircase going upwards,
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and bhakti-yoga is
the topmost level.
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- And bhakti is a devotional surrender.
- Yes; yes.
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Spiritual world means there
the Supreme Lord is supreme.
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Nobody else.
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And all others, they are
engaged in His service.
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This is spiritual world.
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Here, in the material world,
everyone is trying to be master.
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In the spiritual world
there is no such attempt.
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They know the master is only God
and all others, they are servants.
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That is the difference between
material world and spiritual…
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I think that covers that.
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Second question.
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We were talking about that in this
documentary, “In Search of Truth.”
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Do you think there is any other way
to actually realize God in truth and…
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God can be realized
through bhakti, surrender.
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Otherwise even it is realized,
it is partial: Not complete.
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Well, that answers that.
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Bhakti… Just like I have
got some official servant,
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and I have got very
confidential servant.
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So, to my confidential servant
everything is disclosed.
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He knows everything.
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But official servant, he
may not know everything.
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Therefore bhakti is the confidential
part of understanding God.
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Otherwise they understand vaguely,
impartially… Not sufficiently.
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In the Bhagavad-
gītā there is a verse:
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mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
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asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ
māṁ… [Bg. 7.1]
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You can quote it.
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That is the first śloka of
the Seventh Chapter.
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PUSTA KṚṢṆA: Sri bhagavān uvāca
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mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
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asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
[Bg. 7.1]
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“Now hear, O son of Prtha, Arjuna, how by
practicing yoga in full consciousness of Me,
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with mind attached to Me, you can
know Me in full, free from doubt.”
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- That answers it.
- Can I have that…
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- Chapter…
- Bhagavad-gītā, Seventh Chapter, first text; seven, one.
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Prabhupāda, I believe that answers all
the questions I went through before that.
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- We’d just like to say it’s been very nice to meet you.
- Thank you very much.
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We’re both, in our own way,
trying to find truth ourselves.
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Āsam [?] These two
words are very important.
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Asaṁśayaṁ: “without any doubt.”
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Everyone, every religion, they have
no doubtless understanding of God.
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Everyone has some doubt.
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Neither complete.
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That is only in bhakti-yoga.
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We’re just discovering veils of
ignorance; we’re trying to…
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Any religious system, ask them,
“What do you understand by God?”
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They will not be able to explain, because
that is not complete, not doubtless.
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Therefore these two words have
been used, asaṁśayaṁ samagram.
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Our reading has only drawn forth
a lot of conflicting answers so far.
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We’ve been reading
into Hindu philosophies,
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and most of the answers
conflict with each other.
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So which book you are reading?
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Well, we’ve been just reading mainly
biographies by swamis and yogis,
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Aurobindo and Resynthesis of…
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They have no realization.
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They have simply jugglery
of words; that’s all.
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- It’s new for us, so I’m not very…
- Yes, yes.
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It’s brand new for us; we’ve only
been doing it for a few months.
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Read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is
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I’ve got it; I am reading it.
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Each time I read it, I find
I read it a little better.
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Aurobindo has no
clear knowledge.
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And which other swami
you are reading?
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- We’ve read… Which one did you read?
WOMAN: Maharishi.
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No, he has no…
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We’ve started practicing that
Transcendental Meditation.
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We have found that by
practicing the meditation
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we have had a change
in consciousness.
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It has led us into further inquiry,
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so we’ve found that it has
been valuable in a certain way,
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and that’s the only actual practice.
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We have been reading things like
Muktananda and kundalini-yoga
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and that sort of stuff,
the haṭha-yoga.
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So it’s just been an inquiry of our
own which we’ve never done before.
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We’ve only been exposed to
our own Christian scriptures.
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And we find in bhakti-yoga and
Christianity a lot of similarities.
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They are the same,
as far as we can see.
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It’s difficult, though, to
understand our scriptures in…
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No, in the Bhagavad-gītā
everything is clearly explained.
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That’s right.
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Our scriptures are interpreted,
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and we’ve been taught to interpret them in
a certain way, and it hasn’t been very clear.
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- What scripture you are… Bible?
- Well, the Bible.
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But we only know the
Bible as we’ve been told it,
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and it’s been told to
us by unrealized men,
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and we ended up being virtually
atheistically inclined, until that led to…
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So in Bible what is the
conception of God?
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It’s very unclear.
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That [indistinct] I was speaking.
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- In every religion…
- To identify with it.
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- There is no clear conception.
- That’s right.
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And I think this is the
reason that leads you away.
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We’ve been led away from
the Bible because of that.
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There is nothing clear,
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and everybody who has read it to us
has read it to us in a different way.
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But I would say that the finest book
we have read is Bhagavad-gītā.
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There’s no question.
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Subtitles by Pratyatoṣa Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com