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RC NAI 1975-11-01 Lord's Gigantic Body
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ANNOUNCER: Next
is a conversation with
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His Divine Grace
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
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recorded on November 1st,
1975, in Nairobi, Kenya.
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PRABHUPĀDA: …explaining last
night that earth, water, air, fire,
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they have come
from Kṛṣṇa’s energy.
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Can you explain how it has come?
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Any one of you.
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People may say that
“You can say like that,
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but prove that the earth
has come from Kṛṣṇa.”
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DEVOTEE (1): You said last night… You
mentioned a verse from the Bhagavad-gītā,
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ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
[Bg. 10.8]
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- that Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything.
- That’s all right.
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That is… Your scripture says,
but I am a third person.
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Why shall I believe
in your scripture?
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You prove.
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You are quoting from
your own scripture.
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I don’t take your scripture.
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You give me practical explanation
how earth has come from Kṛṣṇa.
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Well, one has to
accept the scriptures.
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- So that you may accept.
- This is what Kṛṣṇa has left here
five thousand years ago.
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“That’s all right.
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It doesn’t matter.
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- That doesn’t matter.”
- for everyone because you are part of Kṛṣṇa too.
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- That is your saying. You prove that.
- That’s not my saying. That’s the
Supreme Lord’s saying.
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- That’s all right.
- INDIAN MAN OR DEVOTEE (2): …a child
has to accept the authority of her mother,
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- to know about our father.
- That is all right,
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but you give some practical explanation
that how water, earth has come from…
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The only practical explanation we
can have or any living entity has
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is that explanation which
his father gives him,
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- the Supreme Lord gives him.
- He has given us…
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- That is all right. Still…
- …explanation in the Bhagavad-gītā.
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vijñāna means jñāna and viveka.
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Viveka means, personal conviction.
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That is called vijñāna.
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Jñāna and vijñāna.
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One knowledge you get from me,
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and then you practically
apply your consciousness that
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“Yes, what Prabhupāda
has said, it is right.”
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That is called vijñāna.
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One knowledge, accepting blindly
from the authority, that is knowledge.
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But how it is practically made or done,
that understanding is called vijñāna.
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- DEVOTEE (2): We have
so many examples of…
- Give that example; that I wanted.
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We have so many examples of
scientific creations by intelligent brain,
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personalities on this planet, so
many things which we can see,
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like the clothes we wear, and the machines
we are using in our everyday lives,
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- which require…
- So how Kṛṣṇa has prepared earth?
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- That I want.
- So we can see by studying the nature
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- Yes.
- of the construction of this earth
that it is much more intelligent…
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So how earth is
coming from Kṛṣṇa?
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Tell me that.
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DEVOTEE (3): The scientists say
that this earth came from gases,
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but they cannot explain exactly
where those gases have come from.
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That is, that source, that is Kṛṣṇa.
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No, they do not
know, but we know.
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How in your belly gas is formed?
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How?
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There was no gas, but
automatically the gas is formed.
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And therefore sometimes, if it is
much gas, then you go for treatment.
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So this is the practical.
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The gas is also generating
from my body.
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So as I am an individual,
insignificant body,
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if there is possibility of generating
little gas, so Kṛṣṇa’s gigantic body,
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why not gigantic volume of gas?
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This is the explanation.
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JÑĀNA: The materialistic scientists,
they are saying that matter is energy.
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So we understand if it’s energy
there must be an energetic.
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Yes.
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So how the energetic is
producing, this is common.
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Gas is forming.
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Just like you perspire,
there is water.
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So one ounce of water
may come from your body.
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So water is coming from your body, so
why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa,
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the oceans, millions
of oceans, come out?
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This should be the understanding.
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We see practically that water
is coming out from my body.
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So it may be one ounce or less than
that because my body is very small,
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but Kṛṣṇa’s body is unlimited, so
why not unlimited supply of water?
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This should be the common sense.
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And this body, this
body, what it is?
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It is earth.
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When the body will be
dead it will be earth.
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So I am spirit soul, a small particle,
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so much earth is coming from me,
why not Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spirit?
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This is the explanation.
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God is great, I am small.
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From me a small quantity of
earth is coming, water is coming.
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Why not from the gigantic
body of Kṛṣṇa, so huge,
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I mean to say, volume of water, gas,
and everything as we see it is coming?
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So therefore Kṛṣṇa is correct.
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He’s correct, but for our understanding
we can understand like this,
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chemicals, the chemicals
coming from our body.
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There are so many salt.
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And you test the blood
or the perspiration.
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You’ll find so many chemicals.
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BRAHMĀNANDA: For us to…
For our body to produce earth…
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Now, just to understand that
I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa,
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so the chemical and the water and
the earth is coming from my body,
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so why not Kṛṣṇa’s body,
gigantic, the greatest,
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the chemicals, water,
earth, water…?
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When Kṛṣṇa says,
bhūmir āpo ’nalo.
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“It is My energy,” that’s fact.
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Where is the difficulty
to understand?
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We can… We are little
sample of God, a small God.
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So if we can produce, this body… The
spirit soul as I have described yesterday,
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one ten-thousandth part of the tip
of the hair, it is very, very minute.
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From that minute spirit so much
earth, water, fire is coming.
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So why not the supreme spirit, huge
quantity of water, earth, will not come?
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How one can deny it?
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HARIKEŚA: Well, but verbal analogies
don’t prove the scientific a fact.
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Then you are a rascal.
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Verbal analogy is proof.
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A small quantity, a small
quantity producing;
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large quantity, large
quantity producing.
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Where is the verbal?
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This is practical.
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- But that’s assuming that God has
a body, or there even is a God.
- Yes, God has a body.
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Huh?
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But that is… You are blind
rascal, you cannot see.
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That does not mean
that He has no body.
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You cannot see even the
president’s body here.
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That means president
has no body?
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You rascal, you cannot understand.
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Because you cannot see the
president’s body, you cannot say,
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“No, the president is bodyless.”
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That is your defect.
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You become qualified
to see the president.
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You’ll see he has got a body.
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Those who are not qualified to see
him, they can say that he has not body.
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But why he has no body?
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Śāstra says.
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So if you remain fools and rascals, that
is another thing, but He has a body.
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iśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
[Bs. 5.1]
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Brahmā is saying.
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Why He has no body?
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sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha
[Bs. 5.1]
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Vigraha means body.
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But we don’t know, so we’re taking
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- the known and speculating on that…
- You do not know; therefore you have to learn.
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If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still
you want to know, that is not possible.
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You have to know
from the real source.
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Then you’ll know.
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But if you keep yourself in the rascal
platform, then how you will know?
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Just like you have to go to
a school to learn things.
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So how you can learn at home?
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tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet
[MU 1.2.12]
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You have to go in order to
understand that science.
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So how do you argue,
keeping yourself in darkness?
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In darkness you
cannot see anything.
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“Oh, I do not see anything;
therefore there is nothing.”
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Is that very good reason?
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You are blind, you
cannot see the darkness.
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That is another thing.
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But things are there.
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You make your eyes operated
and manifest your vision.
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Then you’ll see.
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Therefore,
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ajñāna-timirāndhasya
jñānāñjana-śalākayā
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cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
[Śrī Guru Praṇāma]
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Everyone is blind, in darkness.
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He cannot see anything.
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So one who opens the
eyes, jñānāñjana-śalākayā,
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by the torch of
knowledge, he is guru.
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This is description of guru.
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If you are blind and have a
blind guru, that is no use.
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Guru means who is not blind.
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I may be blind.
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Then that will be effective.
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This is no reason, “I cannot see.”
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What you are?
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You can see?
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You cannot see even the president,
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and you want to see God
without being qualified?
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This is laymans’, rascal’s
reason, “I cannot see.
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I do not see.”
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What you are?
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What you can see?
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You do not first of all evaluate what is your
position, and you want to see something.
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The formula is there.
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premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
[Bs. 5.38]
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One who has developed love
of God is always seeing God.
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So where is that qualification?
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You are not lover of God, you are lover
of dog, so how you can see God?
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You can see dog.
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That’s all.
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Go on seeing dog perpetually.
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And at the time of death see
the dog and become a dog.
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That’s all.
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