0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,671 RC NAI 1975-11-01 Lord's Gigantic Body 1 00:00:01,672 --> 00:00:03,726 ANNOUNCER: Next is a conversation with 2 00:00:03,727 --> 00:00:08,909 His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:08,910 --> 00:00:19,369 recorded on November 1st, 1975, in Nairobi, Kenya. 4 00:00:19,370 --> 00:00:28,449 PRABHUPĀDA: …explaining last night that earth, water, air, fire, 5 00:00:28,450 --> 00:00:33,109 they have come from Kṛṣṇa’s energy. 6 00:00:33,110 --> 00:00:36,775 Can you explain how it has come? 7 00:00:36,776 --> 00:00:44,809 Any one of you. 8 00:00:44,810 --> 00:00:49,139 People may say that “You can say like that, 9 00:00:49,140 --> 00:00:57,339 but prove that the earth has come from Kṛṣṇa.” 10 00:00:57,340 --> 00:00:59,479 DEVOTEE (1): You said last night… You mentioned a verse from the Bhagavad-gītā, 11 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:00,709 ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8] 12 00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:02,869 - that Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything. - That’s all right. 13 00:01:02,870 --> 00:01:08,479 That is… Your scripture says, but I am a third person. 14 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,209 Why shall I believe in your scripture? 15 00:01:10,210 --> 00:01:16,849 You prove. 16 00:01:16,850 --> 00:01:19,759 You are quoting from your own scripture. 17 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,359 I don’t take your scripture. 18 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:27,499 You give me practical explanation how earth has come from Kṛṣṇa. 19 00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:30,739 Well, one has to accept the scriptures. 20 00:01:30,740 --> 00:01:34,552 - So that you may accept. - This is what Kṛṣṇa has left here five thousand years ago. 21 00:01:34,553 --> 00:01:35,682 “That’s all right. 22 00:01:35,683 --> 00:01:36,383 It doesn’t matter. 23 00:01:36,384 --> 00:01:39,729 - That doesn’t matter.” - for everyone because you are part of Kṛṣṇa too. 24 00:01:39,730 --> 00:01:44,461 - That is your saying. You prove that. - That’s not my saying. That’s the Supreme Lord’s saying. 25 00:01:44,462 --> 00:01:48,173 - That’s all right. - INDIAN MAN OR DEVOTEE (2): …a child has to accept the authority of her mother, 26 00:01:48,174 --> 00:01:50,849 - to know about our father. - That is all right, 27 00:01:50,850 --> 00:01:59,319 but you give some practical explanation that how water, earth has come from… 28 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,608 The only practical explanation we can have or any living entity has 29 00:02:03,609 --> 00:02:07,259 is that explanation which his father gives him, 30 00:02:07,260 --> 00:02:09,329 - the Supreme Lord gives him. - He has given us… 31 00:02:09,330 --> 00:02:11,709 - That is all right. Still… - …explanation in the Bhagavad-gītā. 32 00:02:11,710 --> 00:02:16,840 vijñāna means jñāna and viveka. 33 00:02:16,841 --> 00:02:24,149 Viveka means, personal conviction. 34 00:02:24,150 --> 00:02:26,073 That is called vijñāna. 35 00:02:26,074 --> 00:02:27,299 Jñāna and vijñāna. 36 00:02:27,300 --> 00:02:31,079 One knowledge you get from me, 37 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:37,409 and then you practically apply your consciousness that 38 00:02:37,410 --> 00:02:40,979 “Yes, what Prabhupāda has said, it is right.” 39 00:02:40,980 --> 00:02:44,059 That is called vijñāna. 40 00:02:44,060 --> 00:02:51,109 One knowledge, accepting blindly from the authority, that is knowledge. 41 00:02:51,110 --> 00:03:04,749 But how it is practically made or done, that understanding is called vijñāna. 42 00:03:04,750 --> 00:03:09,099 - DEVOTEE (2): We have so many examples of… - Give that example; that I wanted. 43 00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:13,439 We have so many examples of scientific creations by intelligent brain, 44 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,319 personalities on this planet, so many things which we can see, 45 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,110 like the clothes we wear, and the machines we are using in our everyday lives, 46 00:03:20,111 --> 00:03:23,299 - which require… - So how Kṛṣṇa has prepared earth? 47 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:26,435 - That I want. - So we can see by studying the nature 48 00:03:26,436 --> 00:03:29,369 - Yes. - of the construction of this earth that it is much more intelligent… 49 00:03:29,370 --> 00:03:32,572 So how earth is coming from Kṛṣṇa? 50 00:03:32,573 --> 00:03:33,659 Tell me that. 51 00:03:33,660 --> 00:03:36,959 DEVOTEE (3): The scientists say that this earth came from gases, 52 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,399 but they cannot explain exactly where those gases have come from. 53 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,489 That is, that source, that is Kṛṣṇa. 54 00:03:44,490 --> 00:03:48,089 No, they do not know, but we know. 55 00:03:48,090 --> 00:03:58,089 How in your belly gas is formed? 56 00:03:58,090 --> 00:03:59,879 How? 57 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:07,389 There was no gas, but automatically the gas is formed. 58 00:04:07,390 --> 00:04:15,169 And therefore sometimes, if it is much gas, then you go for treatment. 59 00:04:15,170 --> 00:04:17,229 So this is the practical. 60 00:04:17,230 --> 00:04:25,029 The gas is also generating from my body. 61 00:04:25,030 --> 00:04:28,929 So as I am an individual, insignificant body, 62 00:04:28,930 --> 00:04:35,919 if there is possibility of generating little gas, so Kṛṣṇa’s gigantic body, 63 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,559 why not gigantic volume of gas? 64 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,069 This is the explanation. 65 00:04:42,070 --> 00:04:46,059 JÑĀNA: The materialistic scientists, they are saying that matter is energy. 66 00:04:46,060 --> 00:04:49,249 So we understand if it’s energy there must be an energetic. 67 00:04:49,250 --> 00:04:50,339 Yes. 68 00:04:50,340 --> 00:04:54,929 So how the energetic is producing, this is common. 69 00:04:54,930 --> 00:04:58,243 Gas is forming. 70 00:04:58,244 --> 00:05:03,730 Just like you perspire, there is water. 71 00:05:03,731 --> 00:05:09,015 So one ounce of water may come from your body. 72 00:05:09,016 --> 00:05:15,572 So water is coming from your body, so why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, 73 00:05:15,573 --> 00:05:20,149 the oceans, millions of oceans, come out? 74 00:05:20,150 --> 00:05:22,009 This should be the understanding. 75 00:05:22,010 --> 00:05:28,579 We see practically that water is coming out from my body. 76 00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:35,959 So it may be one ounce or less than that because my body is very small, 77 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:42,979 but Kṛṣṇa’s body is unlimited, so why not unlimited supply of water? 78 00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:46,969 This should be the common sense. 79 00:05:46,970 --> 00:05:54,779 And this body, this body, what it is? 80 00:05:54,780 --> 00:05:56,899 It is earth. 81 00:05:56,900 --> 00:06:02,289 When the body will be dead it will be earth. 82 00:06:02,290 --> 00:06:05,629 So I am spirit soul, a small particle, 83 00:06:05,630 --> 00:06:13,369 so much earth is coming from me, why not Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spirit? 84 00:06:13,370 --> 00:06:21,306 This is the explanation. 85 00:06:21,307 --> 00:06:24,469 God is great, I am small. 86 00:06:24,470 --> 00:06:29,069 From me a small quantity of earth is coming, water is coming. 87 00:06:29,070 --> 00:06:35,120 Why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, so huge, 88 00:06:35,121 --> 00:06:42,759 I mean to say, volume of water, gas, and everything as we see it is coming? 89 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,589 So therefore Kṛṣṇa is correct. 90 00:06:45,590 --> 00:06:52,439 He’s correct, but for our understanding we can understand like this, 91 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,509 chemicals, the chemicals coming from our body. 92 00:06:57,510 --> 00:06:59,360 There are so many salt. 93 00:06:59,361 --> 00:07:04,920 And you test the blood or the perspiration. 94 00:07:04,921 --> 00:07:09,580 You’ll find so many chemicals. 95 00:07:09,581 --> 00:07:11,840 BRAHMĀNANDA: For us to… For our body to produce earth… 96 00:07:11,841 --> 00:07:18,520 Now, just to understand that I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, 97 00:07:18,521 --> 00:07:24,910 so the chemical and the water and the earth is coming from my body, 98 00:07:24,911 --> 00:07:28,393 so why not Kṛṣṇa’s body, gigantic, the greatest, 99 00:07:28,394 --> 00:07:30,810 the chemicals, water, earth, water…? 100 00:07:30,811 --> 00:07:33,280 When Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo ’nalo. 101 00:07:33,281 --> 00:07:37,400 “It is My energy,” that’s fact. 102 00:07:37,401 --> 00:07:42,450 Where is the difficulty to understand? 103 00:07:42,451 --> 00:07:48,060 We can… We are little sample of God, a small God. 104 00:07:48,061 --> 00:07:56,530 So if we can produce, this body… The spirit soul as I have described yesterday, 105 00:07:56,531 --> 00:08:01,660 one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, it is very, very minute. 106 00:08:01,661 --> 00:08:07,510 From that minute spirit so much earth, water, fire is coming. 107 00:08:07,511 --> 00:08:15,430 So why not the supreme spirit, huge quantity of water, earth, will not come? 108 00:08:15,431 --> 00:08:19,920 How one can deny it? 109 00:08:19,921 --> 00:08:23,600 HARIKEŚA: Well, but verbal analogies don’t prove the scientific a fact. 110 00:08:23,601 --> 00:08:24,661 Then you are a rascal. 111 00:08:24,662 --> 00:08:27,910 Verbal analogy is proof. 112 00:08:27,911 --> 00:08:31,700 A small quantity, a small quantity producing; 113 00:08:31,701 --> 00:08:33,800 large quantity, large quantity producing. 114 00:08:33,801 --> 00:08:35,021 Where is the verbal? 115 00:08:35,022 --> 00:08:36,880 This is practical. 116 00:08:36,881 --> 00:08:41,240 - But that’s assuming that God has a body, or there even is a God. - Yes, God has a body. 117 00:08:41,241 --> 00:08:41,910 Huh? 118 00:08:41,911 --> 00:08:44,880 But that is… You are blind rascal, you cannot see. 119 00:08:44,881 --> 00:08:49,040 That does not mean that He has no body. 120 00:08:49,041 --> 00:08:52,800 You cannot see even the president’s body here. 121 00:08:52,801 --> 00:08:55,550 That means president has no body? 122 00:08:55,551 --> 00:09:01,080 You rascal, you cannot understand. 123 00:09:01,081 --> 00:09:04,310 Because you cannot see the president’s body, you cannot say, 124 00:09:04,311 --> 00:09:07,747 “No, the president is bodyless.” 125 00:09:07,748 --> 00:09:14,120 That is your defect. 126 00:09:14,121 --> 00:09:17,570 You become qualified to see the president. 127 00:09:17,571 --> 00:09:21,720 You’ll see he has got a body. 128 00:09:21,721 --> 00:09:28,420 Those who are not qualified to see him, they can say that he has not body. 129 00:09:28,421 --> 00:09:33,539 But why he has no body? 130 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:36,490 Śāstra says. 131 00:09:36,491 --> 00:09:41,790 So if you remain fools and rascals, that is another thing, but He has a body. 132 00:09:41,791 --> 00:09:44,492 iśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1] 133 00:09:44,493 --> 00:09:46,273 Brahmā is saying. 134 00:09:46,274 --> 00:09:47,840 Why He has no body? 135 00:09:47,841 --> 00:09:49,540 sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1] 136 00:09:49,541 --> 00:09:52,490 Vigraha means body. 137 00:09:52,491 --> 00:09:55,505 But we don’t know, so we’re taking 138 00:09:55,506 --> 00:09:59,390 - the known and speculating on that… - You do not know; therefore you have to learn. 139 00:09:59,391 --> 00:10:06,750 If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still you want to know, that is not possible. 140 00:10:06,751 --> 00:10:11,230 You have to know from the real source. 141 00:10:11,231 --> 00:10:12,420 Then you’ll know. 142 00:10:12,421 --> 00:10:19,450 But if you keep yourself in the rascal platform, then how you will know? 143 00:10:19,451 --> 00:10:23,370 Just like you have to go to a school to learn things. 144 00:10:23,371 --> 00:10:28,980 So how you can learn at home? 145 00:10:28,981 --> 00:10:31,650 tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12] 146 00:10:31,651 --> 00:10:35,150 You have to go in order to understand that science. 147 00:10:35,151 --> 00:10:39,050 So how do you argue, keeping yourself in darkness? 148 00:10:39,051 --> 00:10:41,230 In darkness you cannot see anything. 149 00:10:41,231 --> 00:10:44,820 “Oh, I do not see anything; therefore there is nothing.” 150 00:10:44,821 --> 00:10:46,720 Is that very good reason? 151 00:10:46,721 --> 00:10:49,130 You are blind, you cannot see the darkness. 152 00:10:49,131 --> 00:10:50,376 That is another thing. 153 00:10:50,377 --> 00:10:53,910 But things are there. 154 00:10:53,911 --> 00:11:00,660 You make your eyes operated and manifest your vision. 155 00:11:00,661 --> 00:11:03,403 Then you’ll see. 156 00:11:03,404 --> 00:11:03,980 Therefore, 157 00:11:03,981 --> 00:11:06,863 ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā 158 00:11:06,864 --> 00:11:11,200 cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ [Śrī Guru Praṇāma] 159 00:11:11,201 --> 00:11:13,424 Everyone is blind, in darkness. 160 00:11:13,425 --> 00:11:15,770 He cannot see anything. 161 00:11:15,771 --> 00:11:19,220 So one who opens the eyes, jñānāñjana-śalākayā, 162 00:11:19,221 --> 00:11:23,070 by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. 163 00:11:23,071 --> 00:11:26,780 This is description of guru. 164 00:11:26,781 --> 00:11:33,440 If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. 165 00:11:33,441 --> 00:11:35,720 Guru means who is not blind. 166 00:11:35,721 --> 00:11:37,710 I may be blind. 167 00:11:37,711 --> 00:11:42,791 Then that will be effective. 168 00:11:42,792 --> 00:11:45,860 This is no reason, “I cannot see.” 169 00:11:45,861 --> 00:11:46,917 What you are? 170 00:11:46,918 --> 00:11:47,908 You can see? 171 00:11:47,909 --> 00:11:51,200 You cannot see even the president, 172 00:11:51,201 --> 00:11:58,170 and you want to see God without being qualified? 173 00:11:58,171 --> 00:12:01,829 This is laymans’, rascal’s reason, “I cannot see. 174 00:12:01,830 --> 00:12:03,260 I do not see.” 175 00:12:03,261 --> 00:12:03,912 What you are? 176 00:12:03,913 --> 00:12:09,610 What you can see? 177 00:12:09,611 --> 00:12:19,050 You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. 178 00:12:19,051 --> 00:12:20,486 The formula is there. 179 00:12:20,487 --> 00:12:27,400 premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38] 180 00:12:27,401 --> 00:12:32,560 One who has developed love of God is always seeing God. 181 00:12:32,561 --> 00:12:36,640 So where is that qualification? 182 00:12:36,641 --> 00:12:42,260 You are not lover of God, you are lover of dog, so how you can see God? 183 00:12:42,261 --> 00:12:43,029 You can see dog. 184 00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:44,835 That’s all. 185 00:12:44,836 --> 00:12:47,850 Go on seeing dog perpetually. 186 00:12:47,851 --> 00:12:50,750 And at the time of death see the dog and become a dog. 187 00:12:50,751 --> 00:12:55,943 That’s all. 188 00:12:55,944 --> 00:12:55,945 Subtitles by Gopī Kāntā Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com Sponsored by Dr. Douglas Maki