RC NY 1976-07-11 Can God Directly Talk to Man
ANNOUNCER: Next is a conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda,
recorded on July 11th, 1976, in New York.
INDIAN MAN: Why, how the caste system has crippled our society so much,
- was accepted by… - SRILA PRABHUPADA: Wrongly - wrongly.
Kṛṣṇa says,
cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]
So according to quality and work… That is fact.
If you have got engineering qualification and if you can work as engineer,
people will call you engineer-sāheb.
Is it not?
So there may be a class of engineer, but that depends on quality and work.
But if you have no quality, no work, how you become engineer?
If you have no qualification of becoming an engineer,
and you do not work, you work as a clerk,
and if somebody addresses you “Engineer-sāheb,”
he is a fool, you are a fool.
So if he’s not a brāhmaṇa,
if you call him a brāhmaṇa, then you are fool and he is also fool.
So that is going on, fools’ paradise.
A rascal who is not in qualification a brāhmaṇa,
if he’s addressed and given honor of a brāhmaṇa, he’s sees,
“Oh, for nothing I am getting this honor, that’s right, very nice.”
And who is giving him honor as brāhmaṇa, he’s also rascal.
But it is not that.
cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]
Not by birth.
One must acquire the quality of a brāhmaṇa.
śaucaṁ samaḥ damaḥ titikṣa ārjavam
jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]
He must be truthful, he must be self-restrained,
self-controlled, full of knowledge, very simple.
All these qualifications, when he acquires, then he becomes a brāhmaṇa.
No, even in the Rāmāyaṇa and Mahābhārata,
we find this kind of… Ekalavya was discriminated,
- Karṇa was discriminated… - Because he was not accustomed to the practice of brāhmaṇa.
One must be brāhmaṇa by practice; that is wanted.
This is a kind of discrimination though.
- Hmm? - This is kind of discrimination though. - Yes.
Kṛṣṇa says,
māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye ’pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg 9.32]
Never mind if he’s born in low-grade family,
but he’s eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead.
te ’pi yānti parāṁ gatim [Bg 9.32]
Do you mean to say, unless one becomes a first-class brāhmaṇa,
he can go back to home, back to God… No, that is not possible.
So,
kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ… śudhyanti [SB 2.4.18]
The purificatory process… Just like these Europeans, Americans,
they are being recognized as brāhmaṇas because they are pure devotees.
That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission, He says,
kṛṣṇa-bhajane nāhi jāti-kulādi-vicāra [Cc. Antya 4.67]
Kṛṣṇa-bhajane, if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no such discrimination,
even if you make that, because as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious,
you become the best brāhmaṇa.
That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]
He immediately becomes on the brahma platform.
And brāhmaṇa means one who knows brahma.
brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa [Manu Smriti]
So every devotee,
if he’s purely engaged in devotional service, he’s more than brāhmaṇa.
And so-called brāhmaṇa, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is not recognized.
avaiṣṇavo gurur na syād vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ [Padma Purāṇa]
If a dog-eater, caṇḍāla, he has become a Vaiṣṇava, he can be guru.
But a brāhmaṇa…
ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ
avaiṣṇavo gurur na syāt [Padma Purāṇa]
If he’s expert, Vedic chanting and everything, mantra-tantra-viśārada,
but if he’s not a Vaiṣṇava, he cannot become guru.
So according to our Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s… That is actually,
according to Vedic injunction.
If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become more than a brāhmaṇa.
Try to understand Kṛṣṇa, and then your life is successful.
And Kṛṣṇa is being distributed by Lord Kṛṣṇa.
Not only He’s giving Kṛṣṇa, He’s giving kṛṣṇa-prema,
kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-
nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ [Madhya 19.53]
Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind, merciful, He’s not only giving Kṛṣṇa,
He’s giving kṛṣṇa-prema, which is very, very rare. [splice]
Find out that, when Lord Buddha appeared, that verse.
sammohāya sura-dviṣām [SB 1.3.24]
His propaganda was to cheat the atheist class of men.
Atheist class of men,
they did not recognize existence of God, so He became one of them.
sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam [Daśāvatāra Stotra 7]
This atheist class, they were killing animals in the name of yajña like anything.
So, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]
so He came as Buddha to stop this animal killing.
His real business was stop the animal killing,
that these rascals are going to hell, in the name of religion,
so at least stop their activities of animal killing.
So therefore he started the mission, ahiṁsā paramo dharma: “Don’t kill animals.”
But in the Vedas there is recommendation, in the yajña,
as you were saying, that there is…, animal killing is recommended.
So people presented that, “Here is animal killing recommended in the yajña.”
Therefore he denied the authority of Vedas.
nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam [Daśāvatāra Stotra 7]
So this Buddha incarnation is cheating the atheist class of men.
He said that “Don’t kill animals.
If you are killed you feel pain, why you should kill animals?”
That was his mission, to stop animal killing, sinful activities.
So what was your question?
I just asked why he has preached impersonal form of God.
Yes, because they were all godless, so he said, “There is no God,
but you stop this animal killing.”
That was his mission.
And he said, “There is no God, but whatever I say, you accept.”
So they agreed.
But he is God, that is cheating.
Superficially he said there is no God, but he is God.
Somehow or other, if people stop animal killing and accept Lord Buddha,
then he becomes at least one step forward to God realization.
So in a cheating process he made good to others.
DHṚṢṬADYUMNA: Tataḥ kalau sampravṛtte sammohāya sura-dviṣām
buddho nāmnāñjana-sutaḥ kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati [SB 1.3.24]
Translation.
“Then in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha,
the son of Añjanā, in the province of Gayā,
just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theists.”
To delude them.
Read the purport.
“Lord Buddha, a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead,
appeared in the province of Gayā (Bihar) as the son of Añjanā,
and he preached his own conception of nonviolence,
and deprecated even the animal sacrifices sanctioned in the Vedas.
At the time when Lord Buddha appeared, the people in general were atheistic
and preferred animal flesh to anything else.
On the plea of Vedic sacrifice,
every place was practically turned into a slaughterhouse,
and animal killing was indulged in unrestrictedly.
Lord Buddha preached nonviolence, taking pity on the poor animals.
He preached that he did not believe in the tenets of the Vedas,
and stressed the adverse psychological effects incurred by animal killing.
Less intelligent men of the age of Kali,
who had no faith in God, followed his principle,
and for the time being they were trained in moral discipline and nonviolence,
the preliminary steps for proceeding further on the path of God realization.
He deluded the atheists because such atheists,
who followed his principles did not believe in God,
but they kept their absolute faith in Lord Buddha,
who himself was the incarnation of God.
Thus the faithless people were made to believe in God in the form of Lord Buddha.
That was the mercy of Lord Buddha: he made the faithless, faithful to Him.
Killing of animals before the advent of Lord Buddha,
was the most prominent feature of the society.
They claimed that these were Vedic sacrifices.
When the Vedas were not accepted through authoritative disciplic succession,
the casual readers of the Vedas are misled,
by the flowery language of that system of knowledge.
In the Bhagavad-gītā, a comment has been made on such foolish scholars.
The foolish scholars of Vedic literature who do not care
to receive the transcendental message,
through the transcendental realized sources of disciplic succession,
are sure to be bewildered.
To them, the ritualistic ceremonies are considered to be all in all.
They have no depth of knowledge.
According to Bhagavad-gītā, the whole system of the Vedas,
is to lead one gradually to the path of the Supreme Lord.
The whole theme of Vedic literature is to know the Supreme Lord,
the individual soul, the cosmic situation and the relations between all these items.
When the relation is known, the relative function begins,
and as a result of such a function, the ultimate goal of life,
or going back to Godhead, takes place in the easiest manner.
Unfortunately, unauthorized scholars of the Vedas,
become captivated by the purificatory ceremonies only,
and natural progress is checked thereby.
To such bewildered persons of atheistic propensity,
Lord Buddha is the emblem of theism.
He therefore first of all wanted to check the habit of animal killing.
The animal killers are dangerous elements on the path of going back to Godhead.
There are two types of animal killers.
The soul is also sometimes called the animal, or the living being.
Therefore both the slaughterers of animals,
as well as those who have lost their identity of the soul, are animal killers.
Mahārāja Parīkṣit said that only the animal killer cannot relish,
the transcendental message of the Supreme Lord.
Therefore if people are to be educated on the path of Godhead,
they must be taught first and foremost,
to stop the process of animal killing as above mentioned.
It is nonsensical to say that animal killing has nothing to do with spiritual realization.
By this dangerous theory many so-called sannyāsīs,
have sprung up by the grace of Kali-yuga,
to preach animal killing under the garb of the Vedas.”
Now there are so many rascals in this dress of sannyāsī, they are eating meat.
That is going on.
They say, “What is the wrong of eating meat?
Can eat.”
They eat meat.
Then?
“The subject matter has already been discussed in the conversation
between Lord Caitanya and Maulana Chand Kazi Shaheb.
The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted
- animal killing in the slaughterhouse.” - There, your question.
“Because the asuras,
- or the so-called scholars of Vedic literatures…” - Now you were referring to the Vedic principle,
but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse.
But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse.
You think it is Vedic principle?
Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed,
in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony.
Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse?
Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish,
therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse?
Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, in some awkward circumstances,
but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse.
In the Ten Commandments he says, “Thou shalt not kill.”
When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing,
but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill?
They are not even human being, those who are animal killers.
vinā paśughnāt [SB 10.1.4]
All those who are animal killers, they are not even human being,
what to speak of religious system.
Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-’bhirāmāt
ka uttamaśloka… [SB 10.1.4] If you are animal killer, your,
God consciousness is finished.
You’ll never be able to understand what is God.
Then your life is finished.
This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer,
then your God understanding is finished.
May I ask a question, Prabhupāda?
Something that I’ve wondered about, perhaps you could explain it briefly.
I believe that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme God, so don’t get me wrong,
but since you mentioned Christ, was he an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa?
- Was Jesus Christ sent here by Kṛṣṇa from… - He said that he is son of God; that is accepted. [splice]
Subtitles by Gopī Kāntā Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com