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RC STO 1973-09-10 Psychiatrist--Ours Is a Psychiatric Movement
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ANNOUNCER: Next is a conversation
between His Divine Grace
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A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda
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and a psychiatrist, recorded September
10th, 1973, in Stockholm, Sweden.
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PRABHUPĀDA: What your… What do you think?
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That life is a product of chemicals?
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Do you mean to say?
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- DR. HAUSER: That is what I’ve been taught. Yes.
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About the evolution of the earth. And… Therefore, if…
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…all the different stages of life.
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Do you think that’s a fact…
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It’s not a fact. I don’t know
whether it’s a fact. I… But that’s…
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Then that means illusioned.
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You are not confident, but you accept that theory.
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This is illusion.
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But… Yes.
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But… But you should apply
your reason, from practical life,
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whether life is produced from matter,
or matter is produced from life.
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Our proposition is: matter is produced
from life, not life is produced from matter.
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In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said:
Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB. 1.1.1].
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Absolute Truth is that from whom
or from which everything emanates.
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Now that Absolute Truth, whether he’s life or dead stone.
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So that is discussed:
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Janmādy asya yato ’nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1].
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That Absolute Truth must be cognizant.
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So as soon as you say cognizant, then He’s alive.
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abhijñaḥ That, that means if I say:
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“I have produced all these things that is within the room.”
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Then means I must have brain.
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I must be experienced how to do it.
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How I can be dead, matter?
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Has the matter has got such thing?
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The origin of creation must be a living being.
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But somewhere… If I can… But in
this, there is also the creation of life,
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when…
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Where is that evidence, creation of life from matter?
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Is there any evidence in the history?
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No, but as we know,
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the evolution of life has gone through
different stages of… How do you…?
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Darwin’s theory.
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Do you mean to say, Darwin’s
theory? Yes, yes. That is nonsense.
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Darwin was a number-one nonsense.
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Yes.
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Rascal. He has confused the whole world.
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Hmm. Why…?
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Evolution of matter.
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Matter cannot evolve.
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That is not possible.
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But evolution of life…
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What is that life?
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That is different from matter.
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That is a different energy.
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That I am speaking.
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Matter is… Life is the origin of matter.
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The evolution is not of the matter, but of the life.
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That Darwin does not know.
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Therefore I say nonsense.
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He does not know that.
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Yes.
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But I feel in the…
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Just like this is an apartment.
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So from this apartment, you go to another apartment.
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It does not mean that this apartment has evolved to that apartment.
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I, the person, I create that apartment, or I prefer that apartment.
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Not that this apartment has evolved into that apartment.
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Yes, I can see what you mean. Yes. Yes.
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Darwin’s nonsense is there.
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He is changing the apartment.
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Apartment is becoming a different apartment.
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That is not a fact.
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Just try to understand.
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This room cannot develop into another room.
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But I, the resident of this room, I can go from this apartment to another apartment.
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Or I can create another apartment.
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This is evolution.
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And I can create a bigger apartment.
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Yes, bigger, smaller, as I like.
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Not necessarily bigger.
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That is also another nonsense.
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My intelligence might grow also.
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Intelligence, maybe.
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But there must be means.
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You may be very intelligent, but if you have
no means to erect another nice apartment,
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how it will?
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Trial and error.
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Eh?
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Trial and error.
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Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment,
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nicer, but if you have no money, then how can purchase?
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You have to purchase something inferior.
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So these different species of life
is the evolution of the living soul
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according to his karma.
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That is Vedic instruction.
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Karmaṇā daiva- netreṇa [SB 3.31.1].
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So I am a living entity.
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If I want to go to better condition of life, then I’ll have to pay for it.
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Better condition is there already.
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Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition.
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That is another thing.
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Just like the condition in moon planet is different
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from the condition of this earthly planet.
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That is already there.
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You have to transfer yourself from this planet to that planet.
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So that point is missing in Darwin’s theory.
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He says that body is evolving.
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That is nonsense.
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The body is evolving,
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then why the monkey body
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is not producing a human
body at the present moment?
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Where is the evidence?
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The monkeys are already there.
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Where is the evidence in the zoo
that a monkey has produced a human being?
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Do you think it is all right?
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Yes, that, that life might have taken
different forms, that I’m quite sure of.
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And that the human being
might not have existed for about
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a hundred thousand years ago.
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No human beings exists eternal.
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He’s existing.
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But he accepting, he’s accepting different situation.
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PARAMAHAṀSA: There’s proof of this
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in that recently there was a discovery in South America.
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I think it was in Kenya.
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Where they discovered a
skeletal remains that were over
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hundreds of thousands of years old that
was pre, what is it? Mag… What is it?
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HAṀSADŪTA: Pre-magnon.
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Pre-magnon, and it was the same human body as now,
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as we have now. They have discovered.
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And with this discovery, they say,
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completely all of Darwin’s theories have been destroyed.
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This is a fact.
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Immediately see.
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He overlooked.
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He says: “I do not see any proof that
human beings lived, millions of years ago.
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Therefore I think [indistinct] apes were existing.”
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But what proof does he have?
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And how they have discovered bones
and they have proven by tests that
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Pre-magnon era there was the same human body.
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It’s a fact. And completely his, all
his theories have been destroyed.
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Because he again, he was
working with his illusory senses.
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Hmm.
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But there are the dinosaurs for example.
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The dinosaurs, yes.
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Which died and disappeared from the earth.
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And that is also a kind of evolution that has taken place.
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He says there are these prehistoric animals like dinosaurs,
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these big, gigantic animals,
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they are no longer existing now, but they existed at one time.
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So there, there was some evolution there.
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Yes.
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But a… The point is Vedic, Vedic conclusion is that…
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No, but, apart from Vedic conclusion, this example,
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that practically, when I go from this apartment to another apartment,
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so this apartment does not become another apartment.
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I go from this apartment to another apartment.
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He’s missing that “I”. Or “you”. That is his nonsense.
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He’s only talking about apartments.
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Yes, that is his rascaldom.
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Yes, I can see what you mean.
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He does not know.
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The apartment does not change.
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The owner of the apartment goes from one apartment to another.
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That he does not know.
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Therefore he’s cheating.
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He does n… He has no perfect knowledge, and he’s cheating.
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Cheater.
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He does not know.
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The soul, from the monkey’s body is coming to human body.
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That is nice.
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Not that the monkey’s body is changing into human body.
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But some of this cheating, as you call it, must have,
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have still been a great use to mankind
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because it has not been proven at the time when
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this theory has been evoked by some scientist,
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it has not been proven that he’s right,
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but he works according to this principle
that he has got, and then later…
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Yes. That, that is explained in
Bhāgavatam that in the jungle
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one big animal is the leader of other animals.
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That’s all. But they’re animals. Is it not?
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But I don’t really understand.
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In the jungle, in the forest,…
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Yes.
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…the lion is considered to be the king of animals.
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So lion is also animal, only big animal.
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That’s all.
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So you mean the scientist is a big lion.
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Yes. A big rascal. That’s it. A big rascal.
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A big rascal is eulogized by small rascals. That’s all.
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Seducing a small rascal.
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Eh?
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Seducing a small rascal.
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No. This is the position.
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Everything is going on like that.
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Not only in science, philosophy, religion, sociology, politics.
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The, a big rascal and small rascal. That’s all.
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But you must evoke quite a lot of
feelings when you say, for example,
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that Einstein was a very big rascal.
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No.
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He believed in God. Yes. He believed in God.
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He was not a rascal. A sane man.
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Carl Jung also.
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Yes. He believed in God.
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Yes.
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He tried to find out the brain of God.
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So he’s not rascal. He’s sane man.
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Those who are defying God, they’re rascal, demons.
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Einstein believed in God. Yes.
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There are many scientists, they believe in God.
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Harāv abhaktasya kuto [SB 5.18.12].
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Unless one is God conscious, he’s a rascal.
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Immediately, take it. We take it like that.
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As soon as you say godless,
atheist, oh, a rascal. That’s all.
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It may be the understanding of God is not so perfect.
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But he thinks there is God. That is intelligence.
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That is intelligence.
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And the demons will never accept God.
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Just like in Russia. All set of rascals.
They do not believe in God.
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But the interest… The religious interest in Russia is,
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is greater than in any other country in Europe.
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But not the, the leaders are not…
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I say the leaders. Not only in Russia. Everywhere.
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The leaders, the rascal leaders
spoiling the whole world situation.
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