0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,608 RC VRN 1976-09-07 Spiritual Happiness and Suicidal Monkey 1 00:00:01,609 --> 00:00:04,328 ANNOUNCER: Next are excerpts from a conversation 2 00:00:04,329 --> 00:00:10,378 with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, 3 00:00:10,379 --> 00:00:34,218 recorded on September 7th, 1976, in Vṛndāvana, India. 4 00:00:34,219 --> 00:00:39,378 PRABHUPĀDA: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, ei ’ta kali-celā. 5 00:00:39,379 --> 00:00:42,748 Here is a disciple of Kali. 6 00:00:42,749 --> 00:00:46,518 Nāke tilaka galāi mālā 7 00:00:46,519 --> 00:00:54,738 But has got a tilaka on the forehead and neckbeads on the neck. 8 00:00:54,739 --> 00:01:01,288 But is Kali-celā—number one disciple of Kali. 9 00:01:01,289 --> 00:01:05,508 You know this song? 10 00:01:05,509 --> 00:01:09,349 Kali-celā. 11 00:01:09,350 --> 00:01:18,869 These persons who are committing sinful life—don’t say anyone [laughs] or publish— 12 00:01:18,870 --> 00:01:22,309 there was a trouble. 13 00:01:22,310 --> 00:01:25,859 But that’s a fact. 14 00:01:25,860 --> 00:01:33,219 Those who are living in Vṛndāvana and acting like monkey, they’ll get next life — 15 00:01:33,220 --> 00:01:43,939 a monkey. To remain in Vṛndāvana, and then next life they will be liberated. 16 00:01:43,940 --> 00:01:53,569 In one life all their sinful activities will be punished. 17 00:01:53,570 --> 00:01:58,859 Because as soon as animal life is obtained, 18 00:01:58,860 --> 00:02:01,689 there is no more further record of the sinful life. 19 00:02:01,690 --> 00:02:09,819 The animals cannot make sinful activities more than what is destined by him. 20 00:02:09,820 --> 00:02:14,429 But their sinful activity is not taken into account. 21 00:02:14,430 --> 00:02:21,429 For this man who is offered this monkey’s body, 22 00:02:21,430 --> 00:02:25,969 he suffers the inconvenience of monkey life. 23 00:02:25,970 --> 00:02:29,269 So his sinful activities are counteracted, 24 00:02:29,270 --> 00:02:34,379 and because he came to Vṛndāvana and lived in Vṛndāvana 25 00:02:34,380 --> 00:02:44,769 by the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, next life he will be… 26 00:02:44,770 --> 00:02:54,839 That is the glory of Vṛndāvana-dhāma. 27 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,360 Otherwise what is the explanation 28 00:02:57,361 --> 00:03:08,430 of these dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana? 29 00:03:08,431 --> 00:03:18,520 If it is dhāma-aparādha, committing offense in dhāma. 30 00:03:18,521 --> 00:03:23,560 Dhāma-aparādha. As dhāma-bhajana, 31 00:03:23,561 --> 00:03:30,110 if one undergoes devotional service out of Vṛndāvana 32 00:03:30,111 --> 00:03:33,820 and one executes devotional service in Vṛndāvana, 33 00:03:33,821 --> 00:03:38,120 that is hundred times better. 34 00:03:38,121 --> 00:03:41,470 Similarly dhāma-aparādha also. 35 00:03:41,471 --> 00:03:45,320 This aparādha, when offense is committed outside Vṛndāvana, 36 00:03:45,321 --> 00:03:53,410 that is not so grievous as committing offense in Vṛndāvana. 37 00:03:53,411 --> 00:03:59,280 Dhāma-aparādha. 38 00:03:59,281 --> 00:04:03,060 So the punishment is there, but the reward is also there. 39 00:04:03,061 --> 00:04:11,410 One life makes pardoned. 40 00:04:11,411 --> 00:04:13,770 Tat te ’nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo 41 00:04:13,771 --> 00:04:22,400 bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam [SB 10.14.8]. 42 00:04:22,401 --> 00:04:29,910 Therefore a devotee in a reverse condition of life, he understands that “I am punished. 43 00:04:29,911 --> 00:04:39,030 Little punished for my previous mischievous activities. 44 00:04:39,031 --> 00:04:43,321 So now I am becoming liberated.” 45 00:04:43,322 --> 00:04:48,131 So he becomes more enthused to worship the Lord, 46 00:04:48,132 --> 00:04:56,951 that “You are finishing my sinful reaction of life with slight punishment. 47 00:04:56,952 --> 00:05:00,531 Thank you very much. 48 00:05:00,532 --> 00:05:03,971 This is devotee. 49 00:05:03,972 --> 00:05:08,041 tat te ’nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ 50 00:05:08,042 --> 00:05:15,451 HARIKEŚA: The dogs and monkeys, they feel grateful? 51 00:05:15,452 --> 00:05:23,221 Yes, when they come to sense they feel grateful. 52 00:05:23,222 --> 00:05:25,911 As dogs they cannot. 53 00:05:25,912 --> 00:05:32,191 As dog or monkey they cannot enhance their sinful activities. 54 00:05:32,192 --> 00:05:34,451 It is stopped. 55 00:05:34,452 --> 00:05:39,441 And whatever they do, that is not taken into account. 56 00:05:39,442 --> 00:05:49,221 And to suffer as dog or monkey means counteracting all previous sins. 57 00:05:49,222 --> 00:05:55,201 One punishment finished. 58 00:05:55,202 --> 00:06:01,891 Then he’s fully liberated. 59 00:06:01,892 --> 00:06:08,841 I was always wondering that if somebody’s desire is to commit sinful activities… 60 00:06:08,842 --> 00:06:16,111 No, in Kali-yuga if you desire it is not sinful. And act… 61 00:06:16,112 --> 00:06:22,331 If they desire to commit sinful activities and before they became monkeys, 62 00:06:22,332 --> 00:06:25,772 but then they were doing it then. 63 00:06:25,773 --> 00:06:30,282 So whilst they’re monkeys their desire must change. 64 00:06:30,283 --> 00:06:35,152 Or is it forced, that change forced upon them by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa? 65 00:06:35,153 --> 00:06:40,182 But if desire changes, then where is punishment? 66 00:06:40,183 --> 00:06:49,852 If he’s repentant, then there is no punishment. 67 00:06:49,853 --> 00:06:54,332 So before they go back to the spiritual world that desire must change. 68 00:06:54,333 --> 00:06:58,792 This is forceful change. 69 00:06:58,793 --> 00:07:02,412 That is the advantage of Vṛndāvana bhajana. 70 00:07:02,413 --> 00:07:05,182 That is very good. 71 00:07:05,183 --> 00:07:10,342 But not that willfully do something wrong. 72 00:07:10,343 --> 00:07:14,532 There is punish… There is punishment. 73 00:07:14,533 --> 00:07:20,222 If one unconsciously, without any knowledge, 74 00:07:20,223 --> 00:07:24,652 does something wrong, that is excused. 75 00:07:24,653 --> 00:07:26,692 But they do willfully. 76 00:07:26,693 --> 00:07:30,992 They know it is wrong, but still they do it. 77 00:07:30,993 --> 00:07:35,022 That is punished. 78 00:07:35,023 --> 00:07:52,482 Knowingly. 79 00:07:52,483 --> 00:07:58,773 Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said, asat eka strī-saṅgī. 80 00:07:58,774 --> 00:08:08,173 Those who are habituated to illicit sex are punishable. 81 00:08:08,174 --> 00:08:09,683 Asat. 82 00:08:09,684 --> 00:08:13,163 It is very, very bad. 83 00:08:13,164 --> 00:08:20,093 And still if somebody does like that, he is punished. 84 00:08:20,094 --> 00:08:39,713 This is going on. “All right.” 85 00:08:39,714 --> 00:08:48,803 Here illicit sex… The bābājīs, I heard, they say, “What is the wrong there? It is love.” 86 00:08:48,804 --> 00:08:51,613 They say like that. 87 00:08:51,614 --> 00:08:56,903 They take it as love. 88 00:08:56,904 --> 00:09:00,323 Gopī’s love,” they say. 89 00:09:00,324 --> 00:09:06,063 Gopī’s used to do that, used to have illicit mixing, 90 00:09:06,064 --> 00:09:14,923 intermingling with Kṛṣṇa. What is wrong?” They’ll say. 91 00:09:14,924 --> 00:09:17,933 They get support from Kṛṣṇa līlā. 92 00:09:17,934 --> 00:09:24,863 Such rogues they are. 93 00:09:24,864 --> 00:09:27,383 Sahajiyās. 94 00:09:27,384 --> 00:09:33,933 There are many so-called gentlemen, they write books on Kṛṣṇa līlā, paint picture.” 95 00:09:33,934 --> 00:09:36,913 This is very nice. 96 00:09:36,914 --> 00:09:48,183 Kṛṣṇa is advocating illicit intermingling.” 97 00:09:48,184 --> 00:09:56,334 They take it as support of their sinful activities. 98 00:09:56,335 --> 00:09:59,104 I have seen personally. 99 00:09:59,105 --> 00:10:05,714 Anyone who is a woman-hunter, he’s being addressed by his friend, 100 00:10:05,715 --> 00:10:13,864 “Oh, you are like Kṛṣṇa.” 101 00:10:13,865 --> 00:10:20,454 They take Kṛṣṇa as a man. 102 00:10:20,455 --> 00:10:23,994 How they will take instruction of Kṛṣṇa? 103 00:10:23,995 --> 00:10:36,994 avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ” “paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ [Bg 9.11] 104 00:10:36,995 --> 00:10:40,254 We are teaching people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, 105 00:10:40,255 --> 00:10:46,654 to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, and the so-called gentlemen, 106 00:10:46,655 --> 00:10:57,264 enlightened gentlemen, take Kṛṣṇa as a debauch. 107 00:10:57,265 --> 00:11:14,984 Black debauch. [splice] 108 00:11:14,985 --> 00:11:26,264 Many monkeys were deported by the government but people protested. 109 00:11:26,265 --> 00:11:27,674 They were capturing monkeys… 110 00:11:27,675 --> 00:11:28,584 Here? 111 00:11:28,585 --> 00:11:31,394 Yes. Government. 112 00:11:31,395 --> 00:11:41,744 And selling at good price in Europe for taking their hormone. 113 00:11:41,745 --> 00:11:51,704 The monkey’s hormone is injected or replaced so one regains his sex power. 114 00:11:51,705 --> 00:11:56,295 They are very sexually strong. 115 00:11:56,296 --> 00:12:00,095 That must interfere with that monkey’s spiritual life. 116 00:12:00,096 --> 00:12:03,535 That interferes with the spiritual life of the monkey? 117 00:12:03,536 --> 00:12:10,555 Because then he can’t die in Vṛndāvana. 118 00:12:10,556 --> 00:12:16,865 It is further from them. 119 00:12:16,866 --> 00:12:20,595 Everything is being done by superior arrangement. 120 00:12:20,596 --> 00:12:25,355 Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. 121 00:12:25,356 --> 00:12:27,262 People should learn all these things 122 00:12:27,263 --> 00:12:30,602 by practical example instead of becoming irresponsible 123 00:12:30,603 --> 00:12:37,822 and without any obedience to the superior law. 124 00:12:37,823 --> 00:12:42,732 They should learn it, but they have no intelligence. 125 00:12:42,733 --> 00:12:45,923 They think, “We are all free.” 126 00:12:45,924 --> 00:12:49,783 Where from the monkey is coming, why there are so many varieties of life, 127 00:12:49,784 --> 00:12:53,593 how it is…? What do they know? 128 00:12:53,594 --> 00:13:00,693 Nothing. 129 00:13:00,694 --> 00:13:12,636 All bluff, vague explanation and that is going on in the name of science. 130 00:13:12,637 --> 00:13:12,638 Subtitles by Gaurāṅga Sundara Dāsa, Causelessmercy.com