Room Conversation Prabhupada: There is a book, perhaps you might have read, Aquarian Gospel. So in that book I have read there is a Greek word, Christo. Christo… Sometimes we don’t say Krsna, we say Krsta. Dr. Kapoor: Krsta, yes, in Bengali particularly. Prabhupada: Yes. So this Christo word means “anointed.” Krsna’s face is anointed. And love also. And this Christ title was given to Jesus on account of his love for God. So on the whole, the conclusion is Krsna or Christo means “love of Godhead.” Dr. Kapoor: No, Mandakara(?) has tried to argue that the entire Krsna religion of Srimad-Bhagavata has been borrowed from the West. Yamuna: How is this possible? Dr. Kapoor: Eh? Yamuna: How does he do that chronologically? How is that possible? It’s impossible to do that. Dr. Kapoor: There was some exchange, some people came from Greece here, and just… Guru dasa: But the Greek civilization was not developed five thousand years ago. Yamuna: It wasn’t even developed. Dr. Kapoor: But he doesn’t take it so back as five thousand years. Guru dasa: So anybody can say anything. (guest laughs) Prabhupada: Our authorities, they accept Mandakara(?) is not as good as Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Sankaracarya. We… Nobody can give credit to Mandakara more than these acaryas or Caitanya. So how his proposition can be accepted? Dr. Kapoor: So he was knighted, you see, by the British government. Prabhupada: Yes, just see. (guest laughs) Just like Nehru bribed one Mukerjee, Radha-kunda Mukerjee, doctor, to write book where he has supported cow slaughter. Dr. Kapoor: He supported. Hmm, hmm. Guru dasa: If I was the Western government and you handed the most perfect knowledge to me, I would knight you also, in the name of myself. Certainly I would knight you. Prabhupada: So Radha-kunda Mukerjee, he has supported cow slaughter. He was given a post, made a parliament member first of all. So this poor man, five hundred rupees per month, he accepted. Then he induced that “You take more money, write like this.” So if you pay money… British government’s whole policy was that if the Indians are kept strict Hindus, it is next to impossible to govern them. So therefore they adopted this policy. They changed the whole policy how the Hindu will think everything mentioned in the sastra is nonsense. They have trained up, and Nehru is the first-class trainee. Everything mentioned in the sastra, the Arya-samaj, they also wrote Saptartha (indistinct), so many. And Dr. Radhakrishnan also. All the scholars, they would never mention any sastra more than once within one thousand years. That means… Dr. Kapoor: Otherwise they would not be scholars. Prabhupada: No. Otherwise they will not be scholars. Guru dasa: At any rate, where it came from is… Prabhupada: Because according to Darwin’s theory, your forefather was monkey. So their theory is that long before there were monkeys only. How such high philosophical thoughts could come? Dr. Kapoor: It is true that in England there were only monkeys there. (laughter) Prabhupada: On this theory, all their philosophy is going on. So if they give credit that Indians were so high scholars and philosophers, then the whole theory is spoiled. Because brain is developing, and the background of brain was monkey. So how such philosophical highly moral scholarly work can be done? And this is going on. If Bhagavata is accepted as we accept that five thousand years ago it was written, then their whole civilization becomes topsy-turvy. Dr. Kapoor: About the Bhagavata also he says that there is the mention of Buddha in Bhagavata and many descendants of Buddha who lived… Prabhupada: The Buddhists, they don’t accept that verse. Kikatesu bhavisyati, buddho namnanjana-sutah. They do not accept. About Buddha, in Hindu literature, Vedic literature, there is mention, bhavisyati, feature(?). That is insult to them. Therefore, they do not accept this verse. Neither we say Buddha is incarnation of God. Kesava dhrta-buddha-sarira. They do not accept this. They think it is insult. Dr. Kapoor: Insulting them. Prabhupada: Yes, Hindu gods… But in one Buddha temple, I have seen in Penang, there is Visnu-murti. Yes, four hundred years old. That is a Buddhist temple. Guru dasa: Dr. Chandra has found many. Prabhupada: Eh? Guru dasa: Dr. Chandra has found many Visnu-murtis in Buddhist temples. Prabhupada: Yes. Yamuna: Especially in Malaysia. Prabhupada: Malaysia. Yamuna: Especially in Malaysia, so many. Prabhupada: Malaysia, I speak of Malaysia, Penang is in Malaysia. Dr. Chandra (indistinct). Guru dasa: Yes. Prabhupada: So they worship Visnu. And Buddha…Buddha-dharma is an offshoot of the Vedic religion. That is the proof, they worship Visnu. Om tad visnoh paramam padam sada. Guru dasa: But to this man, he says that’s the proof that Vaisnava is an offshoot of Buddhism, that Visnu is in the Buddhist temple. He can say that. Prabhupada: Eh? Guru dasa: This Caitanya who has written this book can say that since Visnu is in the Buddhist temple that this proves that Visnu is an offshoot of Buddhism. Prabhupada: Yes, he can say like that. But the offshoot he cannot say. Visnu is long, long ago mentioned, Buddha is later. Buddha can be from Visnu, but Visnu cannot be from Buddha. Guru dasa: So how do they speak of that chronologically? They don’t accept that Srimad-Bhagavatam as five thousand years old? Dr. Kapoor: No. [break] This bundle… Syamasundara: No, those are documents. Dr. Kapoor: Documents? Syamasundara: Yeah, photocopies. Dr. Kapoor: You promised to give me a photo of Prabhupada. Guru dasa: I’ll give you one. Prabhupada: If you have got any colored photo, you can give him. So we have now increased eighty-seven. Syamasundara: More, ninety-two. Prabhupada: Ninety-two? Dr. Kapoor: Ah, you don’t know yourself. (laughs) Prabhupada: Yes, actually Kapoorji, I do not know how things are going like this. I tell you frankly. I have no credit. But things are going on like this. It is something like—of course, I am not comparing exactly—just like Krsna could not understand about His potency and, therefore He became Radharani’s feature to understand Himself. So… Of course, I… This is a comparison. Things are taking very wonderfully. Very wonderfully. Just see these boys and girls, how seriously they have taken. Dr. Kapoor: Oh, yes, there is no doubt about their earnestness, and people have…This is just what strikes people. How can these people be so sincere and so earnest? Prabhupada: So I simply… Dr. Kapoor: They are beating Indians. (laughs) Prabhupada: I simply advise them that you regularly chant the sixteen rounds. Not more, you cannot make… You cannot imitate Haridasa Thakura. But there must be one sankhya. Sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana. They are observing that and the regulative principles: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling. And they are following other instructions, so they are wonderfully. Dr. Kapoor: You know Dalmiaji’s daughter-in-law, the wife of Visnu Hari Dalmia… Prabhupada: Visnu Hari went to see me in London, perhaps with his wife. Dr. Kapoor: Accha. She told me, she said the movement is all right but they are so strict, such strict rules and regulations are being imposed upon these people, how long will they be able to follow them? Prabhupada: That is a surprise. Dr. Kapoor: This is bound to fail, she said. I say it will succeed just because of this. (laughter) The rules and regulations imposed upon them are like strong fences put around them to keep maya away, you see? Yamuna: They want relgiosity watered down. Prabhupada: Actually, because they are following strictly, maya cannot touch them. Yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karatah, na sa siddhim. Krsna says vidhi. Bhakti-vidhi. Must be followed. (aside:) This is cut piece? Cut piece from the book cover? No. It is original photo? Guru dasa: A copy. Prabhupada: Copy. Dr. Kapoor: It is fine. [break] (laughs) But now I changed so there is a Radha-Krsna photo in the background which is cut. Prabhupada: You can give some of that. It is not very nice. Yamuna: We need the nice ones. Guru dasa: We don’t have any others. Yamuna: We didn’t bring so many things with us, but we’ll give him very nice. Prabhupada: Here Radha-Krsna photo is cut, it’s not good. You have got any in your photo… Syamasundara: Not color. Prabhupada: May not be color. Syamasundara: Doesn’t matter. Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Kapoor: Give me afterwards, there is no hurry. And what about those photos you took in town that day? That lady inquires from me every time I go there. Yamuna: Which one? Dr. Kapoor: Mahaprabhu’s photo, Maha(indistinct)? Guru dasa: Ksirodakasayi has those negatives. Dr. Kapoor: Huh? Guru dasa: I think Ksirodakasayi has those negatives. I’ll inquire. Ksirodakasayi? Dr. Kapoor: He has? Guru dasa: He has those negatives. I’ll inquire where they are. Dr. Kapoor: If you give me the negatives, I will get them developed. Devotee: You want to take massage now, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: So give some prasadam. Dr. Kapoor: You are observing Ekadasi today? Prabhupada: Eh? Dr. Kapoor: Ekadasi today? Prabhupada: Ekadasi? (indistinct) Dr. Kapoor: So you are going for that piece of land, that… Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Kapoor: Garden? Prabhupada: Yes. You like that piece of land? Dr. Kapoor: I like it. Prabhupada: Yes, it is nice. Two sides…three sides road. Dr. Kapoor: Three sides road? Prabhupada: Yes. Three sides road, and good locality. Dr. Kapoor: This one is all right, of course. This land that you have purchased is very well suited. But that orchard, you see. Prabhupada: Orchard, yes. That you can inquire. Dr. Kapoor: If you want to expand afterwards… Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Kapoor: …this piece of land may not be sufficient. Prabhupada: No, no. Dr. Kapoor: And that may not be available afterwards. So if you can go in for it just now… Prabhupada: Yes. So what actually he wants? Dr. Kapoor: (indistinct) must have told you? Guru dasa: He mentioned that he thought sixty thousand, but he was not positive. Prabhupada: Eh? Guru dasa: He was not sure, but they both said sixty thousand, but they were not sure. Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) Since both of us say sixty thousand, I think you can get in touch. Guru dasa: But that is very nice plot. And it is about two times as large as Mr. Dalmia’s land, and Mr. Dalmia was asking fifty thousand. Dr. Kapoor: No, he has purchased it for fifty thousand. Sixty thousand is his entire cost, including expenses and everything. I asked him, he told me. Sixty thousand. So from that point, that land is cheap. Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Kapoor: You have more extensive buildings on it than Dalmia’s. Guru dasa: What about the adjoining land, it is also available? Dr. Kapoor: Which one? Guru dasa: There is some adjoining land behind… Dr. Kapoor: Adjoining which… Guru dasa: That sixty thousand… Prabhupada: Bon Maharaja bought this land very cheap. Dr. Kapoor: Oh, yes. He got it for nothing. Prabhupada: Only thirty thousand? Dr. Kapoor: No, even less, I think. About ten thousand. But he… Prabhupada: He had to spend much money. Dr. Kapoor: He got it… It was requisitioned for the college, you see. It was requisitioned. Prabhupada: Vrndavana University, Vaisnava (indistinct). It was acquired by the government. Dr. Kapoor: Acquired by the government. That’s how he got it cheap. And then he had to go into litigation. Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Much litigation, and he was in danger. Dr. Kapoor: He was in danger. Syamasundara: Still it’s not finished. Prabhupada: Not yet finished. Dr. Kapoor: Not yet finished? That litigation is still going on? Syamasundara: No, I mean the building. Dr. Kapoor: Building huh. The construction is going on? Prabhupada: Now he is getting money. Dr. Kapoor: Now he is getting money. The institution has been recognized by the government. Prabhupada: He is not here. I inquired. Dr. Kapoor: Perhaps not. I don’t know. Prabhupada: He’s gone to Delhi? Dr. Kapoor: He was trying to force me… Guru dasa: Bombay, I think. Dr. Kapoor: …force the professorship of his college upon me. Prabhupada: Eh? Dr. Kapoor: When I came here after my retirement… Prabhupada: Yes, yes. I know that. [break] If you want, you can come sometime to European countries to our different branches. Dr. Kapoor: Why you make me leave Vrndavana now? (laughs) Prabhupada: No, because you have got some background, so you can have very good chance to speak in big institution. Dr. Kapoor: That’s all right. Prabhupada: And if our movement is supported in that way, that will be nice. Dr. Kapoor: I was out from Vrndavana for about a month-and-a- half, that I told you. (laughs) Prabhupada: Yes. That was also painful. Dr. Kapoor: (indistinct) hell. Although I was with my children, you see, small kiddies, lovely people, you see. And still, you see, I didn’t like to stay with them. Prabhupada: That I can understand. Dr. Kapoor: I came away. And as I was coming to Vrndavana, you see, I think it was by way of punishment, you see, for being…, for remaining outside Vrndavana for such a long period that the strange thing happened, you see. And Radharani made me undergo a prayascitta before I came back. (laughs) Syamasundara: A what? Dr. Kapoor: You see, what happened was, it was the… Prabhupada: Prayascitta. Intonation, what do you call? Dr. Kapoor: No. Prabhupada: Prayascitta, what is the exact English? Dr. Kapoor: Penance. Devotee: Atonement. Prabhupada: Atonement. Dr. Kapoor: Atonement, yes. Prabhupada: Atonement. Dr. Kapoor: Atonement. So I was made to undergo atonement, you see. (chuckles) I was coming to Mathura. I had to drop down some (indistinct) at Mathura, and I had a trunk and bedding with me. [break] (Hindi), a big volume, about one thousand pages, that he had given to me for revision. So that thing was there, there was one… Prabhupada: Bengali? Dr. Kapoor: Hindi. Prabhupada: Hindi. Dr. Kapoor: Hindi. One more manuscript. And, of course, there was some jewelry also because my son has been recently married, you see, and there was some jewelry also. That was not so material as this manuscript. Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Kapoor: So I went to the station master, he failed to do anything. Then I ran back to the train. [break] (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Vrndavana, March 12, 1972, (new98)