Morning Walk Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
April 21, 1973, Los Angeles

Svarupa Damodara: (Hindi) …Bhavananda Maharaja, Sudama Maharaja, very nice. (pause) Everyone was dancing.

Prabhupada: They have discovered one watch machine. You have seen that? You can, you can immediately know what is the time where all the important places.

Brahmananda: By a dial?

Prabhupada: No, by electricity.

Karandhara: Yes. It has a dial on it. You turn the dial and it tells you the time in different places… (pause)

Prabhupada: In Vrndavana, there is a place called Nidhuvana.

Devotee: Nidhuvana?

Prabhupada: Nidhuvana. So that was a place… Still people go to visit. So one Bhagavan dasa Babaji, he was chanting, and in the middle of his chanting he made (makes sound with hands like clapping) like this. So his disciples… (pause) Yes. His disciples asked him: “Sir, why did you (makes clapping sound) do like this?” “So there was a goat entered Nidhuvana. So I drove it away.” So where is that machine by which you can see…? It is not the time, but see the activities of everywhere? But that is possible. Yes.

Brahmananda: Oh, even though he did not see the goat, he knew it was there.

Prabhupada: No, he’s seeing. Otherwise, how does he (makes sound) “Hut, hut, hut.” He’s seeing. Where is that machine? So this Darwin’s theory says that there was no intelligent man or brain but how these books were written, thousands and thousands of years ago? These Vedic sastras. If there were no intelligent brain? Vyasadeva, like Vyasadeva. Before Vyasadeva also, other great sages, they compiled…

Brahmananda: They have no explanation.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Brahmananda: They have no explanation.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, I think it’s easier here.

Brahmananda: They have no explanation for the author who, of the Vedic literatures. They say: “unknown forest sages.”

Prabhupada: Unknown, it may be unknown, but the things are there. Where from they got the brain? That is our question. It may be unknown to you, or unknown to me, but the brain work is there. The philosophy is there, and the… At least, the language, the poetic arrangement, the linguistic strength, everything is there. So you may not know the person, but you can understand the brain. Just like…

Brahmananda: They think our brain is increasing, but actually we see it decreasing. Because we cannot duplicate that…

Prabhupada: Yes. Not only duplicate. You cannot even understand properly. Do you… To understand the Vedic philosophy, you have to tax your brain. Just like Bhagavad-gita. Take, for Bhagavad-gita. It is accepted as a great book of philosophy all over the world. And… Now wherefrom this brain came out. Apart from accepting Krsna as God, take it, the language, take the language, the philosophy, the thoughts. How great they are. Now how can you say that people had no higher brain. Within hundred years everything has grown up. All these rascals. What is the Darwin’s age?

Svarupa Damodara: Darwin says the, he says in his history of the origin, he cannot trace completely.

Prabhupada: Whatever he has traced, what is the history of that tracing history? Tracing age?

Svarupa Damodara: So he started that life started from very primitive, different primitive forms…

Prabhupada: No, no, no. What is the time of Darwin. Which year he was a professor?

Svarupa Damodara: The theory started in 1859, about…

Prabhupada: 1859. So hundred years ago. So all the brains developed within hundred years. All these rascals came out within hundred years. And before that, there was no other rascal. Just see the fun. All the scientific improvement, anthropology, everything came within hundred or two hundred years.

Brahmananda: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Brahmananda: Yes. That is their idea.

Prabhupada: Yes. Before that, there were no brain.

Brahmananda: ’Cause they didn’t understand his theory.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Svarupa Damodara: Because before that, they’re thinking that there’s no intelligent person…

Prabhupada: That, that, I am pointing out, that all intelligent persons, during the British Empire, they came out. The whole aim was to defy the Indian civilization.

Karandhara: They call it the “Age of Enlightenment.”

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: After the fifteenth century, they call it the “Age of Enlightenment.”

Prabhupada: So the Britishers, they wanted to rule over India, and they were advertising, at least in India, that: “We are making you civilized. Before British rule, the Indians were rude, primitive natives.” That’s all. That is their propaganda. The whole propaganda was to make the Indians known that: “We are giving you life and civilization. Before this, you were not even human beings.” That is their propaganda. So they accept this literature, but they date within one thousand years, one thousand-five hundred years. Even this rascal, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he dates Bhagavad-gita within two thousand years. That’s all. Perhaps I am the first person making propaganda that Bhagavad-gita was spoken five thousand years ago. I am the first person. All other so-called scholars, they have dated within two thousand years. (pause) There was a book: “England’s work in India,” written by one rascal Indian, M. Ghosh. In that book… That was taught in the schools in our days. The theme of the book is that before British rule, India was not at all advanced in any way. The incidence of sati… Sati. That was very elaborately explained. Sati…

Svarupa Damodara: Sati dharma?

Prabhupada: Sati dharma. Yes. Formerly, even Arjuna’s stepmother, Madri, he also, she also died with her husband. That was the system. The wife voluntarily used to die along with the husband.

Brahmananda: Gandhari.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Brahmananda: Gandhari, wife of Dhrtarastra.

Prabhupada: Yes. So later on such devoted wife was lacking. So the system was, some cases, they were forced to die. So these things have been elaborately explained in the, that book, and Britishers stopped it. So the Indians were uncivilized. Britishers made them civilized. Everything was misinterpreted. Yes.

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: But they do not know the inner meaning…

Prabhupada: No, inner meaning is there. But they would not explain that. Simply the dark side, they would explain. And prove that the Indian civilization was very crude and primitive. It has no enlightenment. That was British propaganda. Even during national movement, they bribed one American woman, and she wrote a book: “Mother India.” Do you know that?

Svarupa Damodara: No, I, no…

Prabhupada: Ah. “Mother India.” She described all the blackmailing of Indian social activities, and Gandhi remarked it: “Drain Inspector’s report.”

Brahmananda: What?

Prabhupada: “Drain inspector’s report.”

Brahmananda: Drain?

Prabhupada: Drain, that sewage water…

Brahmananda: The sewer.

Prabhupada: Sewage water.

Brahmananda: That’s what she inspected.

Prabhupada: She’s a drain inspection report. And in reply to that, one Punjabi barrister, he wrote one book: “Uncle Sam”. He pointed out all the blackmailing of American government. So these things are going on. Dosam icchanti pamarah. Those who are low class of men, they simply try to find out the faults. Guna icchanti saj-janah. And those who are enlightened, they will take the qualities only. Saj-jana guna icchanti, dosam icchanti pamarah, mukti brahmana icchanti madhum icchanti bhramarah. Yes. That, there are flies, ordinary flies. They are searching after sores, where is sore in your body. And there are bumblebees, they are searching after where is honey. Similarly, those who are rascals, they’ll find out: “Oh, here is a fault. Here is a fault.” Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna.

Svarupa Damodara: So this is a demoniac quality.

Prabhupada: Yes. These Britishers should have tried to assimilate the mass Indian culture with their help, administrative help, to broadcast this culture. No. They wanted to exploit India, and prove that “our ruling over India”… Because they have to show something to the outside world…

Brahmananda: To justify that exploitation.

Prabhupada: Yes. (pause) They would not allow anyone to enter India to make trade. And that is the cause of two big world wars. This is a… Real cause is India. Because the Germans, they were very intelligent. They were intelligent nation. They wanted to trade with India. So Britishers will not allow them. Actually, Britishers were selling goods, purchasing from Germany and Japan, And when German would go to trade, they will enhance the custom duty very, very large amount. So that was the grudge of the German nation. Two times, they fought with that “Finish these Britishers-shop- keeper’s nation.” Yes. Hitler, Hitler was… Hitler or the Emperor Wilhelm, some of them, one of them, was calling the Britishers: “shop-keeper’s nation.”

Brahmananda: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: Shop-keeper’s nail?

Prabhupada: Shop-keeper’s nation.

Brahmananda: A nation of shop-keepers only.

Prabhupada: That’s right. Why the shop-keeper’s nation should predominate all over the world? Kill them. That is their (indistinct). And actually it is the German people who killed Britishers, British lion. Apart, after the Second War…

Brahmananda: British was finished.

Prabhupada: Finished. Everyone in the United Nations pressed on them: “Why you are colonizing? Why you are occupying so much land? You give up.” They were obliged. And there was great national movement of Gandhi. So all United Nations pressed that: “They’re wanting to avoid you. Why you are, by force, staying there?” Still, they would not go. But when the soldiers began to join the national movement, they gave it up. “Now we cannot rule it.” How very nasty! For their political power, they did so many heinous activities in India. That’s a great history. For selling their cotton goods, India’s weavers were cut this finger so that they cannot weave. This is there in the history.

Brahmananda: The, the independence movement of Africa, they took great inspiration from Gandhi’s movement.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

Brahmananda: If Gandhi did it, then, they say: “Oh, now we can do it.”

Prabhupada: Gandhi started the movement from Africa. South Africa.

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. Gandhi was attempted to be killed in South Africa.

Prabhupada: Oh yes. One time he was crossing the street and the man beaten him so severely. He could have died. One Englishman saved him. He was attempted to be killed. After this incidence, when Gandhi returned to India, he became leader automatically. (pause) When Dr. Kalidasa-nama…

Svarupa Damodara: Kalidasa?

Prabhupada: Dr. Kalidasa-nama. Did you hear his name?

Svarupa Damodara: Only just now.

Prabhupada: He was our professor. So he was explaining the different ages of archaeologist, anthropology.

Svarupa Damodara: This is in philosophy, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: No, history.

Svarupa Damodara: Oh, history.

Prabhupada: In my honors class, I had history. He was teaching us history.

Svarupa Damodara: What is the standard of Calcutta University, Srila Prabhupada, at the time when Srila Prabhupada was in the University? How was the…

Prabhupada: Oh, it was nice. Very nice students were coming out.

Svarupa Damodara: The moral standard was very good?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. We respected our professors like our fathers. The relationship between the student and the professors was very good. I had one Scottish professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. He was my nice friend. He was professor of philosophy, psychology. Later on he became vice-chancellor.

Brahmananda:Calcutta?

Prabhupada: Calcutta, yes. A very perfect gentleman. Kind-hearted. Sometimes we joked. We were taking this, what is called, peanuts. So the professor was passing. So some of our friends remarked: (Bengali) So he thought that professor did not know Bengali. So immediately he turned: (Bengali). So we became very much ashamed. Yes. So all the professors from foreign countries, they were instructed to learn Bengali language, local language. That was the system. All officers, big officers, educate… (Aside) Good morning. …big educationists, they were to learn the local language. And they used to learn Bengali. Especially in Calcutta. There was one professor, Mr. Scrimgeour. He was professor of literature, English literature. So while teaching one English literature, he was giving parallel passage from Bankim Candra Chatterjee. Yes. “Your Bankim babu says like this.” He used to say like that.

Svarupa Damodara: Oh, I see.

Prabhupada: That means he studied Bankim literature. Bankim Candra Chatterjee was compared with Sir Walter Scott, of English literary men. Sir Walter Scott. In those days, Charles Dickens.

Svarupa Damodara: Charles Dickens?

Prabhupada: Yes. And Sir Walter Scott were known two very great English literary men.

Karandhara: Novelists.

Prabhupada: After sixth year… Yes novelists. So the relationship was very nice. There were… Otherwise, how the Britishers could rule, unless there was obedience. But as soon as they saw now the obedience is going on, the soldiers are leaving our camp and joining the national camp,” immediately they decided to leave peacefully. Otherwise, there would be some revolution. At that time, all good relationship will go. Better separate with good relation. This was Attlee’s policy, to convince statesmen like Churchill that: “You cannot rule over India any more. Better separate in good relationship.”

Svarupa Damodara: A few weeks ago, there was a supplement in the Times, the London Times. So they were describing about the very relationship between British and India, in the early British period and after the British period. There they talked only about very good points, whereas they never say anything about… All good points.

Prabhupada: No, that… When they discuss, they must describe the good points only. But some of the British rulers were very, very unkind. And the last was that Jallianwalla Bagh massacre, created by Lord Chelmsford. Then the British rule finished. In 1917, and immediately Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. So after thirty years, the Britishers were obliged to leave.

Svarupa Damodara: The Scottish Church College in Calcutta…

Prabhupada: Yes. I was student there.

Svarupa Damodara: Oh, Srila Prabhupada was in Scottish Church?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: It’s very popular among the…

Prabhupada: Oh, Yes. In Calcutta, there are two colleges, Presidency College and Scottish Churches College. All respectable families, son will go there, Scottish Churches College, Presidency College.

Svarupa Damodara: They started almost at the same time?

Prabhupada: No, no. It is very old. Presidency College is government, and Scottish Churches College, by the Scottish Church missionaries. There was one priest, Duff, his name was Duff. He started in Srirampur, a small educational institute, Duff Institute. He was a Scotsman. Later on, all the Scottish missionaries combined together and they started this Scottish Churches College.

Svarupa Damodara: Still now the schools are respected now.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: Still now they have good names,…

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Yes, yes.

Svarupa Damodara: Presidency College and Scottish Church College.

Prabhupada: Now they are ruined due to this Naxalite movement. Subash Bose was in our college.

Svarupa Damodara: Oh, Scottish? Oh.

Prabhupada: He was first in the Presidency College, but on account of his national spirit, he was rusticated from Presidency College. Then he came to our college.

Svarupa Damodara: There is a…

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Svarupa Damodara: …Subash Bose Research Institute in Calcutta in…

Prabhupada: Subash Bose?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes. About the museum.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Svarupa Damodara: In Hazrat, Hazrat road it is in…near, not far from…?

Prabhupada: Mahajati?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, maha…

Prabhupada: Mahajati Sadhana.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, Mahajati Sadhana.

Prabhupada: That is in Central Calcutta.

Svarupa Damodara: There are many foreign scholars from, they’re mostly from Japan, and many…

Prabhupada: I don’t find. I do not know much about it.

Svarupa Damodara: When I was in Calcutta, I used to go there quite regularly. Because I was studying German. They have got German classes better in that institute.

Prabhupada: This is the food for the fish?

Karandhara: Yes, bait.

Prabhupada: Horse dung?

Brahmananda: No, clams.

Karandhara: Clams.

Prabhupada: What is that, clam?

Brahmananda: Shellfish.

Prabhupada: Oh. (pause) So many…

Svarupa Damodara: There are so many flies.

Prabhupada: They are not flies. They’re insect of the sand. They live within the sand. The scientists will say: “You see? The living entities coming out of sand, from matter.”

Brahmananda: Automatically, they say.

Prabhupada: But why don’t you create from sand? Flying like that. You are so advanced. Take some grains of sand and create another fly. They cannot create even an ant, and still they say that life is coming out from matter. And in future we shall create. In future, what is your credit? It is already there. If your science is perfect, that life is coming out of matter, now prove it by laboratory experiment. Take some sand and create some life. (pause)

Svarupa Damodara: So, Srila Prabhupada, they’re concluding, the scientists, that without having the real knowledge of their investigation. Because they are concluding that life started from matter, but there’s no proof.

Prabhupada: No proof. How they can say so? (pause) If they accept that life started from life, then they’ll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that? Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly. And still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?

Svarupa Damodara: What they’ll say manufacture means they will take a seed, that… But

Prabhupada: But that means that is not… Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our sastra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother’s womb and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our sastric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition. Then it develops the body. This is… We, we find in Srimad-Bhagavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected into the womb of the mother. Then you’ll get, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.

Brahmananda: If that semina is misused or wasted, then that disrupts the plan of the authorities.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: It’s a serious matter.

Prabhupada: Therefore this contraceptive method is sinful activity. Abortion, contraceptive method. This is against the, I mean to say, plan of the Supreme. Just like the government is making some plan, and if you spoil it, you are criminal. What is the time now?

Brahmananda: Twenty of seven. Twenty minutes of seven.

Prabhupada: So we can return now. Which way? (pause)

Svarupa Damodara: So their statement that life started from matter can be disproved very easily?

Prabhupada: Oh yes. Any child can disprove it. And that theory is also wrong that lower type of animals were first created. No. All different varieties were, all were existing.

Svarupa Damodara: Prabhupada explains that in, in Bhagavad-gita, in one of the purports.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: Whatever desire the living entities had before the annihilation, that became the, the living entities enter into different bodies according to their…

Prabhupada: Desire.

Svarupa Damodara: …desire.

Prabhupada: He wanted a certain type of life. So nature gives him. “All right, take this body.” He desires in a certain way, means he’s associating with the quality of nature in a method, and according to that association, he’s getting a particular type of body. Mind, mind is the creative force. Thinking. Thinking, feeling, willing. These are the psychological functions. So, first of all, thinking. Then he develops to work. And it is work you get a particular type of situation. [Break] One enters into the body of a pig. Then he’ll have to go under the evolutionary process. Just like if you, if you are on the topmost staircase. Somehow or other you fall down. Then again you have to go, step by step. This is the… The steps are always there. Not that the steps are created for you. No. The steps are already there.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, it is dirty.

Prabhupada: It is loose. On account of hastiness, I could not properly set up.

Svarupa Damodara: Some birds, Srila Prabhupada, like the minah…?

Prabhupada: Minah, yes.

Svarupa Damodara: They can be taught to say something. So if they are taught to chant Hare Krsna…,

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Svarupa Damodara: …then are this, this is a good service?

Prabhupada: Yes. Little service. By hearing Hare Krsna mantra, he’ll be elevated.

Svarupa Damodara: But the bird doesn’t know that he’s chanting…

Prabhupada: No, he doesn’t know.

Brahmananda: Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He could teach animals the chanting of the names of…

Prabhupada: Yes. Caitanya Mahaprabhu can do everything. He can deliver anyone without chanting. For Him, there is no condition. So this morning, I could not wash my face. So therefore, the cookies may be distributed to the devotees. I have not washed my face, you see. Harer nama harer nama… [Adi 17.21]. (end of recording)