Room Conversation
with Indian guest, member of Quasi-spiritual society
His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
July 11, 1973, London
Guest: Same as you were saying. Nehru was not a brahmana only because he was called “brahmana.” So…
Prabhupada: No, why Nehru? Everyone.
Guest: Everyone.
Prabhupada: Everyone. Unless he follows the principles of brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, how he becomes? Therefore we have concluded, everyone is a sudra. Kalau sudra-sambhavah. That’s all. But there is no disappointment. Krsna says,
mam hi partha vyapasritya ye ’pi syuh papa-yonayah striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te ’pi yanti param gatim
So even one is sudra, we can give him deliverance by this Krsna consciousness movement. That is our perfection. It doesn’t matter he has become a sudra, but Krsna says, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye ’pi syuh… Even lower than the sudra. Te ’pi yanti param gatim. If he accepts Krsna, then he also attains the perfection, goes back to home, back to Godhead. So there is no cause of disappointment because everyone has become sudra. There is remedy also.
Guest: Even the sudras can…
Prabhupada: Yes. Lower than sudras.
Guest: Yes, lower than sudras.
Prabhupada: Why sudra? Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah, ye ’nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah sudhyanti. They become purified if they accept the real representative of Krsna. Prabhavisnave namah. Yad-apasrayasrayah. Everything is there in the sastras. If we take advantage of the benefit of the sastras, everything can be remodeled, and everything can be good. There is no cause of disappointment. But unfortunately, they’ll not agree. Yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karatah, na sa siddhim avapnoti. One who is acting whimsically, without any reference of the authoritative sastra, he’ll never get success. Na sa siddhim avap…na sukham, neither happiness. And what to speak of going to the spiritual world. That is impossible. So we have to take the advantage of the instruction in the sastra. Now, Krsna is accepted the Supreme Authority by all the acaryas. The molder of destiny of India’s culture, all the acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnusvami, Nimbarka, Lord Caitanya…
Guest: Sankaracarya.
Prabhupada: Sankaracarya. They all accept Krsna, oh, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. They accept, all. So how you can defy all these acaryas, and you become greater than them? That is nonsense.
Guest: But all these acaryas interpret in different, different ways.
Prabhupada: No. No.
Guest: No?
Prabhupada: On the principle, they never. Just like Sankaracarya and Ramanujacarya. He’s impersonalist-personalist. But both of them accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You’ll find from their notes, comments on Bhagavad-gita. Sankaracarya, although he’s impersonalist, he says, narayanah paro ’vyaktat. “Narayana is beyond this cosmic manifestation. He’s transcendental.” That means he says, “He is person.” Narayana, as soon as Narayana, the Personality of Godhead… So we have nothing to touch in his spiritual understanding. He’s talking of the material understanding. His philosophy… He started the philosophy, brahma satyam jagan mithya.
Guest: Hm. Brahma satyam jagan mithya.
Prabhupada: So he wanted to stop these material activities, jagan mithya. Sankaracarya never advocated for nationalism, for starting schools or college or hospitals or… Never. Why? Why should he do? If he says, jagan mithya, then why should he bother all these things?
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: So who is following Sankaracarya. They say, “We are followers of Sankaracarya.” And they’re engaged. Sankaracarya follower means he must become first of all a sannyasi. Then talk anything else. So who’s take, going to do that?
Guest: And all those Sankara matha and Sankaracaryas of various places in India don’t live as jagat was mithya. (laughs)
Prabhupada: No. Jagan mithya, we don’t say jagan mithya. We Vaisnavas, why shall I say jagan mithya? If God is truth, what is created by Him, that is also truth. That is also truth. Because Krsna says,
bhumir apo ’nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca ahankara itiyam me bhinna prakrtir astadha
Me, “My.” So why shall I take Krsna’s things as false? If Krsna is truth, His things are also truth. So we don’t take that this material world is false. We don’t say. Our philosophy is that this material world may be temporary, but because it has connection with Krsna, it can be used for Krsna’s purpose. That is called bhajana, bhakti. Prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunah. Just like here is microphone, here is a tape recorder. Now, it is material. And if we say, “No, no, no. We are Krsna conscious. We cannot touch this material thing”… We don’t say like that. Prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunah. Everything has connection with Krsna. So why shall I call it as material. Parityaga. This is condemned by Rupa Gosvami. Prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunah mumuksubhih parityago vairagyam phalgu kathyate. The mumuksu, the Sankarites, they are after salvation. They give up this world…
Guest: “He who wants liberation.”
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: Mumuksu.
Prabhupada: Mumuksu. So these mumuksu, they are giving up these material things, but they do not know there is connection with…, hari-sambandha.
Guest: Yes. Hari-sambandha.
Prabhupada: They do not know this art.
Guest: “Krsna connection.” Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: Now, people know only “French connection.” They have forgotten Krsna connection. (laughs.) Yes, quite true.
Prabhupada: But we see everything has got Krsna connection. Therefore we utilize it for Krsna. Just like your talking about Krsna, it is being recorded. So it is useful for Krsna’s service. Why shall I give it up? Because the airplane is there, therefore my preaching has been easier. In… Every year I am wandering all over the world, twice, thrice. Because it is aeroplane. So why shall I give it up? It is giving me facility to preach my Krsna consciousness movement. Why shall I give it up? “It is mithya.” Just like the Jains, they do not ride on car. But if by going in a car, I can go and preach very swiftly and come back again, why shall I give up this car? So our philosophy not like that. Nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate. It is yukta-vairagya. We have no attachment for all these things. We are sitting in this palatial building. That’s all right. But we can talk these things underneath a tree. But if I sit down underneath a tree, nobody will come to me. (laughter) You see? So why shall I do that? This is our philosophy.
anasaktasya visayan yatharham upayunjatah nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate
Yukta-vairagya. After all, we have to practice vairagya, non- attachment. But in connection with Krsna, non-attachment is required. Otherwise, this non-attachment will not stay. Just like these… Now we are talking of mithya, how do they consider mithya. Because this artificial non-attachment will not stay. Therefore they say, “It is mithya,” but they’re accepting it.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: Under a different name. “Now let us start this school. Now let us start this hospital.” They’re coming to the mithya platform under some disguise of philanthropic activities. If it is mithya, why you are starting a school?
Guest: Yes. On the way to sannyasa order.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is not sannyasi’s business. For starting a school, the government is there, public is there. Why you are…? That means brahma satyam you could not understand. You are coming to school-starting. You could not perceive that brahma satyam. Although he tried to do it, but he could not understand it. Therefore now he has to maintain himself. So people will not give him alms. So he must show that “I am starting this school. I am starting this hospital. I am doing this. Give me some candala.” That’s all. “Give me some subscription, and taking subscription, I become fat.” That’s all. This is going on. If brahma, jagat is mithya, why you are coming again to this mithya platform?
Guest: Yes, yes. So detachment is there.
Prabhupada: Detach… That is required.
Guest: Anasakta.
Prabhupada: Yes. Detachment and jnana. Jnana-vairagya.
Guest: :Jnana-vairagya.
Prabhupada: This is the real achievement of human life. That jnana-vairagya can be achieved simply by bhakti-yoga. Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogah prayojitah [SB 1.2.7], janayaty asu vairagyam. Janayaty asu vairagyam. Just like these boys here.
Guest: Quick detachment. Instant. Instant. Asu.
Prabhupada: Immediate detachment.
Guest: Asu vairagya.
Prabhupada: Asu vairagya. They were attached to so many things. Now, these young boys, they never ask me that “Give me some money. I shall go to the cinema. I shall smoke, or I shall go to the club.” They’re all young men. Why? Janayaty asu vairagyam. They have kicked out all these things. Practically you can see.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: Or if you ask them, “Let us go to cinema,” they’ll never go. Even at your expense. (laughter) This is vairagya. They do not want anything except Krsna. They do not want anything except Krsna. These boys, young boys, from twenty to thirty years old. They have got to enjoy so many things, especially in this country. In the western countries, how they have given up? Jnana-vairagya, janayaty asu…
Guest: Vairagya, yes.
Prabhupada: Asu, very immediately.
Guest: Instant.
Prabhupada: Instant.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogah prayojitah, janayaty asu vairagyam [SB 1.2.7].
Guest: Is this in the Gita?
Prabhupada: No, in Bhagavata.
Guest: Bhagavata, yes.
Prabhupada: So this is practical. Big, big politicians, they are sticking to their position up to the point of death. Even Gandhi, unless he was fired, he could not give up.
Guest: But he was not in power or position.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, he could not give up the politics. I wrote Gandhi that “You have got so much respect now. Now you have got svaraj. You give up this business. Let us preach Bhagavad-gita. People will hear you.” Before starting this movement. Long ago. I wrote him letter. But… [break]
Guest: He was praying. He was going to pray
Prabhupada: No, political emancipation.
Guest: Hm? [break]
Prabhupada: No, we don’t want to discuss. But the thing is, that these politicians, they do not grow vairagya even up to the point of death.
Guest: Yes, true.
Prabhupada: We have seen Jawaharlal Nehru, the Pantha(?). They stuck to their position up to the point of death. Neither they did know that there is necessity of vairagya. But Vedic philosophy says… All the acaryas, they’re all vairagis. Either Sankaracarya or Madhvacarya, Ramanujacarya, they all were sannyasis. Caitanya Mahaprabhu. All vairagis. Even Jesus Christ. He was a vairagi. Even Lord Buddha, vairagi. So this is required. And where is the vairagya? They’re simply attached to these material activities. And they’re talking of high, high things. Their preliminary things is not finished, vairagya. This is the first step, vairagya. Bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat [SB 11.2.42].
anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam anukulyena krsnanu-silanam bhaktir uttama [BRS 1.1.11]
That is sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66] This is vairagya.
Guest: Yes, yes. yes.
Prabhupada: Sarva-dharman parityajya means vairagya [Bg. 18.66].
Guest: Yes, means vairagya.
Prabhupada: Otherwise, we are embarrassed with so many dharmas, social dharma, political dharma, national dharma, international dharma, this dharma, brahmana dharma, sudra dharma, so many. Therefore Krsna says, sarva-dharman.
Guest: “All.”
Prabhupada: All give up. This is vairagya. Jnana-vairagya-yuktaya. Jnana-vairagya-yuktaya. Bhakti-yoga means jnana-vairagya-yuktaya. Jnana and vairagya there must be. Can you find out that verse?
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam, brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate [Bhag. 1.2.11]. (pause)
Pradyumna: Tac chraddadhana munayo jnana-vairagya-yuktaya, pasyanty atmani… [SB 1.2.12].
Prabhupada: Tac chraddadhana munayo jnana-vairagya-yuktaya [SB 1.2.12]. Jnana and vairagya. Without jnana and vairagya, you cannot make any spiritual advancement.
Guest: No.
Prabhupada: Then?
Pradyumna: Pasyanty atmani catmanam bhaktya sruta-grhitaya.
Prabhupada: Bhaktya sruta-grhitaya. Sruta-grhitaya. By hearing from authority. Sruta.
Guest: Hm. Sruta.
Prabhupada: Grhitaya. Jnana-vairagya-yuktaya. This is the process. Tac chraddadhana munayo jnana-vairagya-yuktaya, pasyanty atmani catmanam sruta-grhitaya, bhaktya sruta-grhitaya [SB 1.2.12]. This is the process.
Guest: By devotion, by listening, you receive, and see the self in himself.
Prabhupada: Yes. Within self. Yes.
Guest: Yes. Atmany atmanam.
Prabhupada: What is the purport?
Pradyumna: “The Absolute Truth is realized in full by the process of devotional service to the Lord Vasudeva, or the Personality of Godhead…”
Prabhupada: This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gita: bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. Never says, “by jnana abhijanati,” or “paramatma abhijana…”
Guest: No. Only bhakti. Yes.
Prabhupada: Go on.
Pradyumna: “…who is the full-fledged Absolute Truth. Brahman is His transcendental bodily effulgence, and Paramatma is His partial representation. As such, Brahman or Paramatma realization of the Absolute Truth is but a partial realization. There are four different types of living beings: the karmis, the jnanis, the yogis, and the devotees. The karmis are materialistic, whereas the other three are transcendental. The first-class transcendentalists are the devotees who have realized the Supreme Person. The second-class transcendentalists are those who have partially realized the plenary portion of the Absolute Person. And the third-class transcendentalists are those who have barely realized the spiritual focus of the Absolute Person.”
Guest: Who are those three? Jnanis…?
Prabhupada: Jnanis, yogis…
Guest: And karmis.
Prabhupada: Karmis, jnanis, yogis…
Guest: And bhaktas.
Prabhupada: So karmi are not transcendentalists. They are materialists. But jnanis, yogis and bhaktas, they are transcendentalists.
Guest: So the jnanis are third-class.
Prabhupada: Yes. Jnanis are third-class.
Guest: Why?
Prabhupada: Because they simply approach the impersonal manifestation of the Absolute Truth.
Guest: I see. They are intellectuals.
Prabhupada: Brahman. Brahman realization. Aham brahmasmi. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. They get relief from the material conception of life. So much. But that is not full understanding of the Absolute Truth. Therefore they are third-class. Or in the third grade. The second grade, yogis, they realize Paramatma, Visnu within the heart. And the first class is the bhaktas. They are talking, personally. Just like Arjuna is talking. Arjuna is directly talking with Krsna. This is the result of bhakti.
Guest: You feel the presence.
Prabhupada: Not feel. Actually talk. Just like we are talking. Actually talking.
Guest: Yes. You think Mirabhai was a bhakti?
Prabhupada: Yes. She was devotee. She was a devotee.
Guest: Yes, yes. She had this quality of…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: …presence of…?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Guest: Direct by Lord.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Otherwise, how she could tell the King, “No, you are not husband. I have got already my husband, Giridhari.”
Guest: Yes. And the King sent the poison. Eh? And she drank it.
Prabhupada: Yes. (pause) I think you people, you can understand this philosophy very nicely and do good to the people. What is the name of your paper?
Guest: “Resurgence.”
Prabhupada: “Resurgence.”
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: That gentleman, I talked with him. He’s also very intelligent. John. So this thing is meant for intelligent class of men. Because we are… Even the jnanis, they are also in the third grade. So how much the position of the bhaktas. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita: brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. When one gets the brahma-jnana, brahma-bhutah, and identifies himself, aham brahmasmi, “I am Brahman,” so prasannatma, he immediately gets relief from all material anxieties. They have nothing to do with this material world. Na socati na kanksati. Then he can see everyone on the equal level. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. Then mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. After being brahma-bhutah, then he can begin bhakti. This is the position of the bhaktas. Real bhaktas, the suddha-bhaktas, unalloyed bhakta. And bhaktas, they have got three stages: kanistha, madhyama, and uttama. Just, at least one comes to the madhyama-adhikari, not to remain in the lowest stage, kanistha-adhikari.
Guest: It’s a very high stage to reach.
Prabhupada: How long you are here in London.
Guest: I have been on and off for two, three years, and I will stay two, three more years.
Prabhupada: So you are family man?
Guest: Yes, this is my wife.
Prabhupada: You have married here.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: Children?
Guest: One child.
Prabhupada: That’s nice.
Guest: And we have called our child “Mukti.”
Prabhupada: That’s nice. (laughter) But another thing… (laughter) Rupa Gosvami says, bhukti-mukti-sprha yavat pisaci hrdi vartate, tavad bhakti-sukhasyatra katham abhyudayo bhavet. That so long the pisaci… Pisaci, you know?
Guest: Yes, yes.
Prabhupada: The pisaci of bhukti and mukti. Bhukti means karmi’s business? “How shall I enjoy?” Bhukti. And mukti means, “I shall become one with the Supreme.”
Guest: Yes, yes.
Prabhupada: So these two things are described as pisaci.
Guest: Really?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: Pisaci is witch. That’s… That’s…
Prabhupada: The bhukti-mukti-pisaci yavad hrdi vartate.
Guest: “As long as…”
Prabhupada: “So long these two pisacis are there within the heart, how one can enjoy the company of bhakti?”
Guest: Atma. But if you are one, the concept one, you cannot be one with the perfect one without bhakti.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: Therefore bhukti and mukti…
Prabhupada: No.
Guest: …do not come together.
Prabhupada: No.
Guest: From bhukti, have to go to bhakti, and then it can be…
Prabhupada: You have to go to mukti, and then bhakti. Just I explained.
brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54]
So after being mukta. A bhakta is already mukta. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita:
mam ca yo ’vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]
So a bhakta is already brahma-bhuta. So he hasn’t got to ask for mukti.
Guest: No.
Prabhupada: He’s already mukta.
Guest: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupada: Just like Bilvamangala Thakura said,
bhaktis tvayi sthiratara bhagavan yadi syad daivena nah phalati divya-kisora-murtih muktih svayam mukulitanjali sevate ’sman and dharmartha-kama-gatayah samaya-pratiksah
The dharmartha-kama, this is karmi’s position. And moksa is mukti’s position. So he says that “If I have got unflinching devotional attitude upon You, my Lord, then Mukti is at my door with folded hands, and these dharmartha-kama, they are at my command.” Simply by bhakti, the… People are after dharma-artha-kama-moksa. So these four things become at the order of a bhakta. Muktih svayam mukulitanjali sevate ’sman dharmartha-kama-gatayah samaya-pratiksah.
Devotee: Prasadam.
Prabhupada: Prasade sarva-duhkhanam hanir asyopajayate. (Guest and devotees talk in background.)
Guest: But calling… krsna-arpanam. Calling mukti, with bhukti, pisaci is a rather strong expression.
Prabhupada: That… Just try to understand what is the bhakta’s position. They can use strong word against mukti also.
Guest: Yes, yes. They can. The attachment is bhukti, materialistic attachment, and mukti… [Break] I was very impressed with the account, how they…
Prabhupada: And this will be New Gokula.
Guest: New Gokula?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Guest: Very good.
Prabhupada: We have got New Vrindaban, New Navadvipa, New Jagannatha Puri, New Dvaraka,…
Pradyumna: New Gaya.
Prabhupada: New Gaya. And this will be New Gokula. (pause) You are in touch in politics. Therefore I am talking something of politics, that the politicians of India, they wanted the, from the British government, India, a strong, united nation, but they could not achieve that goal. Pakistan was taken away. You see. And then all lamenting. Or there is some always unsettled and anxieties due to Pakistan.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: So so far this movement is concerned, we are spreading the Indian culture, Krsna consciousness, all over the world. So the politicians are lamenting for division of India, and here is a movement that everyone will glorify India for this culture. Why do they not join? It is practical.
Guest: Yeah. But the trouble is that politicians are not interested in Indian culture. They are interested in power.
Prabhupada: Therefore they are mudhas. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15] They are. So India cannot be happy being guided by the duskrtina, mudha and naradhama. It is not possible. This request I made to Gandhi, that “You are…” People accepted him as a spiritual man all over the world. So if Gandhi would have taken this movement sincerely and scientifically, it would have grown thousand times.
Guest: Yes, yes. But then what Gandhi said? Did he reply to your request?
Prabhupada: No.
Guest: No.
Prabhupada: Means it did not go to his hand, hands of the secretary. They thought, “What is this nonsense proposal? Now let us become Prime Minister.” That’s all.
Guest: Yes. But how problems of India like poverty…?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Guest: Like poverty and this lack of balance between rich and poor, how these problems can be solved?
Prabhupada: That… That… Gandhi wanted to solve it, but you rejected. Gandhi wanted them to…, village organization. He started that Wardha asrama. You have rejected. What Gandhi can do? That was a good proposal, to remain satisfied in one’s own place. That was Gandhi’s proposal, that “Don’t go to the city, town, for so-called better advantage of life. Remain in your own home, produce your food, and be satisfied there.” That was Gandhi’s policy. The economic problem he wanted to solve by keeping cows, by agriculture, by spinning thread. You want food, shelter and cloth. You produce here, and remain here. Don’t be allured by the capitalists and go to cities and be engaged in industries. But Jawaharlal Nehru wanted overnight to Americanize the whole India. That is the folly.
Guest: I agree.
Prabhupada: Yes. The Congress side, the followers of Gandhi, should have followed Gandhi’s principle. From political point of view only. Village organization. But they won’t do that.
Devotee: Ksira?
Guest: Oh.
Prabhupada: That’s all? You don’t need more?
Guest: No.
Prabhupada: The… Actually, by destroying the Manchester millionaires, Gandhi gave opportunity to the Ahmedabad millionaires. And the consumers, instead of purchasing Manchester cloth at one, eight per pair, now they are purchasing thirty rupees pair. This is advancement. I know. My father had cloth business. The Manchester cloth, very nice cloth. One rupee, six annas per pair, retail sale.
Guest: Now same thing for thirty rupees.
Prabhupada: Just see. And where the money going? To the Ahmedabad capitalists. That’s all.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: So frying pan. From frying pan to the fire. (Guest laughs) You see.
Guest: Yes, quite true.
Prabhupada: Everything is due to lack of God consciousness.
Guest: Quite true. And therefore nothing is working. And not going by car, as you said. (laughter)
Prabhupada: And you are not plucking your hairs?
Guest: I was plucking. Eighteen times, all these hair. Two times in one year, plucking all hair.
Paramahamsa: The whole head, you pull your hair?
Guest: Whole head, yes. It’s an extreme form of ascetic…
Paramahamsa: It’s an austerity.
Guest: Yes. And then I came to… I left it, and came to Benares, and…
Prabhupada: So when you joined this Sad-buda(?) Movement? At Benares?
Guest: Yes. I was… I met Vinoda Bhave, and…
Prabhupada: He’s still living?
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: What is his philosophy?
Guest: His philosophy is… He is a bhak…, a devotee, I think. He’s a very much devotee. But he is also preaching what Gandhi was preaching, for village organization and simple living and producing food and clothes in the village and not going to the city. This is his principle. On the economic scale. And on spiritual and religious, he’s brahma-vidya, he’s seeking brahma-vidya. And he has in Pumnath (?), Brahma-vidya Mandir. So he’s a follower of Sankaracarya.
Prabhupada: Mukti, mukti.
Guest: Eh?
Prabhupada: Mukti.
Guest: Mukti, yes.
Prabhupada: Pisaci. (laughter) Bhukti-mukti-pisaci.
Guest: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: …of men. Bhukti and mukti. So they have manufactured so many “isms.” Bhukti-ism and mukti-ism. Therefore Krsna says, “Give up all these ‘isms.’ ” Simply take, surrender unto Me. That’s all. This is real love.
Guest: Yes. (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) (end)