Morning Walk Conversation Nitai: January 11, 1974. Morning walk. [break] Satsvarupa: …by reading the books, he’d understood that we should become completely desireless. So he wanted more explanation. And in the car coming out Srila Prabhupada just explained that our desire can’t go away because that’s the symptom of the living entity. We have to have some desire. But real desirelessness means that you have no more material desire. Material desire: someone is always desiring from God, “Give me this, give me this.” But when we become purified, then our desire is that “Krsna, please take me. Please take me. Whatever service I can render, please accept it.” But when one has not enough information, then he desires… His idea of desirelessness is to become like a dead stone. Simply to… Because desire causes suffering and it’s bad, material desire, therefore let me simply stop it and become… That will be desireless. But that is not, that state is not possible because our symptom of life is to have desire. So we answer him in this way, to become purified and simply serve Krsna all the time. Not that we stop any activities. Prabhupada was saying he is working day and night. So you cannot become absorbed in nothing. In order to become purely desireless, you have to have some activity that will always… There is a place, there is a plane of spiritual desire, spiritual activity. So there’s… (pause) Prabhupada: What do you have to say about this? Do you understand, desireless and desireful? Satsvarupa: People some… Pseudo transcendentalists, they sometimes criticize us like that. They say, “Hare Krsna devotees, you’re just too active.” They’re think that we’re fruitive, always running around, always trying to sell books, always very active. That’s because they don’t understand that desirelessness. They talk like that, and then they’ll smoke a cigarette the next moment as they criticize us. They say, “You should not have to do anything if you’re transcendental. Why do you have to work so hard?” And then they’ll show that they have some very gross desire. (pause) [break] Prabhupada: …therefore they see that this, their conception of Krsna, there is mother, there is father, there is friend—“So what is this? Here also we see the mother, father, friend. So how they become free?” They cannot understand. Their brain is so poor they cannot understand. Therefore they: “It is also maya. To think of Krsna, the Supreme, having father, mother, friends, playing pastimes, this is also maya.” Therefore they are called Mayavadis. They cannot conceive that in the spiritual world exactly the same things there are, but the position is different. That is absolute, without any designation. Candanacarya: Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Huh? Candanacarya: Also this morning you said that we should try to only love Krsna. Prabhupada: Yes. Candanacarya: And nothing else. Prabhupada: Yes. Candanacarya: But if we love our godbrothers, is that also loving Krsna? Prabhupada: Oh yes. Because they are of, of Krsna. What are your godbrothers? They are Krsna’s servant. So if you do not love your godbrothers, that means you reject your part of Krsna. Candanacarya: So also our children, like that? Prabhupada: Eh? Eh? Candanacarya: Also… Prabhupada: Yes, if you love children for making them Krsna conscious, then it is loving Krsna. Krsna wants sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if you help… What is our movement? Why I have come to your country? Because to make you Krsna conscious. So there is love of Krsna. Otherwise why what is the business, I have come to you? I have no business. Because I love Krsna, I want to see all, everybody in the world to become Krsna conscious. Otherwise why in this old age we are trying so much? Similarly, if you love your children to make them Krsna conscious, then produce hundreds of children and make them. That is love of Krsna. And if you make them cats and dogs, then one children producing is also sinful. That is also sinful. But if you can make them Krsna conscious, then produce hundreds of children. That is Krsna’s love. The Bhagavata says, pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat. “One should not become father, one should not become mother…” na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum, “…if he cannot deliver the children from the imminent hands of death.” That is the condition. So if you cannot make… Death cannot be avoided unless one becomes Krsna conscious. So if you cannot make your children Krsna conscious and stop their death, birth and death process, then don’t become a father. This is the injunction. And if you can actually do that, then become father of hundreds children. This is the condition. If you cannot make your children… If you can make, that is love of Krsna. Because unless you love Krsna, why you should be interested to make others Krsna conscious? Let them go to hell. Why you should be so much working hard to make them Krsna conscious? Unless you love Krsna? This is the sign of love.” I love Krsna, but I do nothing for Krsna.” That is nonsense. That is nonsense. Therefore I said that our Guru Maharaja’s brother, he criticizes Guru Maharaja. But what he has done for Krsna? And what my Guru Maharaja has done? Unless my Guru Maharaja had produced me, how this Krsna consciousness movement is going all over the world? And what he has done? Simply criticizing is no use. We want to see practical. Do you understand or not? Candanacarya: Yes. Prabhupada: Yes. You were also given the equal chance. Prabhupada, my Guru Maharaja, sat down at Mayapura. But you were given the place of Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s birth place. What, what you have done? It is still jungle. And what is Mayapura there? All Americans are building a palatial building. So simply by criticizing, one does not become a very confidential devotee. Where is the action? What he has done? That is required. Phalena pariciyate. [break] …everything. Unless Krsna gives opportunity, nobody can serve Krsna also. But he gives opportunity to the proper person. That is everywhere. If you want to become manager of a firm, the proprietor of the firm will see whether you are able to do that. Then he will give the chance. “Yes.” This is reciprocal. Just like this sloka we were studying today. Krsna becomes sarathi. Does Krsna go to become sarathi of a rascal and fool? He becomes sarathi of Arjuna. That has to be seen. And without any qualification: “Krsna, become my sarathi.” Krsna’s not so easy. First of all qualify. First deserve, then desire. First deserve, then desire. So how a Krsna conscious person can be desireless? The first is desire. “I desire to serve Krsna.” That is the beginning. Then Krsna will give you chance as you deserve. This is the process. And that is explained: anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11] When you become completely desireless for anything material, then bhakti begins. That is desirelessness. Desirelessness means when becomes free to desire anything except Krsna. That is desirelessness. Desirelessness means not to desire anything material. That is desirelessness. Their Mayavadi philosophy that “Everything is maya, and therefore Krsna is maya.” That is called Mayavadi. They do not know the distinction between maya and reality. Everything maya. Therefore they are called Mayavadis. Gurukrpa: Brahma satyam jagan mithya. Prabhupada: Ah. So Krsna is also mithya. That is their philosophy. And therefore in the Bhagavata it is beginning: param satyam dhimahi. Satyam, not mithya. Mithya you can reject. Unless you find out param satyam. But that they do not know, what is param satyam. Therefore Bhagavata gives: om namo bhagavate vasudevaya, param satyam dhimahi. (pause) The word is anyabhilasita. Anya-abhilasa. Anya means “other than Krsna.” Anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11], being completely freed from any other desires, jnana-karmady-anavrtam… [Madhya 19.167]. Jnana, the jnanis, they also desiring liberation. The jnanis, they have got desire. How they are desireless? Because they are aspiring after mukti. The yogis, they are aspiring after siddhi. Karmis, they are aspiring after better condition of life. So these things should be completely free. Then he’s desireless. If you are desiring mukti, where is your desirelessness? Just see. How they are bluffing! They want to become mukta, and still, they say “desirelessness.” Here is your desire. Just see the defect. Eh? Why you are desiring mukti? Gurukrpa: Then they argue that you also want to, you desire to serve Krsna. Prabhupada: No, therefore I say desirelessness means to desire for Krsna. That is desirelessness. Even if you… We are not after mukti. We, we can go to the hell to serve Krsna. Gurukrpa: Mama janmani janmanisvare… Prabhupada: Ah! Mama janmani janmanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahai… That is… There is no question of desirelessness. We desire for Krsna. That is desirelessness. Just like a diseased man, if he desires for healthy life, is that bad thing? To desire for further disease, that is desire. That is bad. Therefore I say, you cannot give up desire. That is not possible. You have to purify your desires. But when you desire for Krsna, that is desirelessness. To become free from disease, that does not mean you have to stop eating. In the diseased condition, you are eating. As soon as you want to desire, that “Let me, give me this nice food,” but you cannot eat on your diseased condition. It will be tasteless. You simply desire, but you cannot enjoy. But same you, man, when the disease is gone, you enjoy that same food very nicely. When you are free from disease, you just ask for rasagulla. You’ll taste it. But when you are diseased, the same rasagulla will not be tasteful. That is the condition. The desire which gives you happiness, that is wanted. The desire which gives you distress, that is not wanted. Therefore Bhagavata begins with dharmah projjhita-kaitavo ’tra: [SB 1.1.2] “The cheating type of religion is rejected.” Because in every religion there is some desire for material objective, up to mukti. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami. General people, karmis, they want pleasure, material pleasure. The jnanis, they want mukti, and the yogis, they want siddhi. They’re everyone beggars. And a bhakta kicks them all out. “We don’t want anything. Simply Krsna. That’s all.” Therefore he’s desireless. Gurukrpa: Krsna-bhakta——niskama ataeva santa. Prabhupada: Ah! Ataeva santa. There is santi. You have to test whether by, by some desire, whether you have become santa. That is not possible except Krsna. When you serve Krsna, then you will feel transcendental pleasure. Otherwise you cannot. Sakali asanta. For mukti they have to do so many things, so many things. So desireless means to desire for Krsna. This is the conclusion. That Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s teaching: mama janmani janmanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi. This is desire. “My life after life simply My devotion unto You may be fixed up.” That’s all. This is Krsna consciousness. In the beginning He says, na dhanam na janam na sundarim kavitam va jaga… “No, no, no, no,” not this.” Then there must be some positive. And the positive is: mama janmani janmanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi. With simply negative, what you’ll do? Simply negative? You must give something positive. Then you’ll be satisfied. You are serving somewhere. You don’t get sufficient salary. So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don’t get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You’ll starve. Again you’ll go, “Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service.” So that is… The Mayavadis’ position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible. After some time… aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. They undergo very good auster…, severe austerities and reach the brahmajyoti, but there, everything being vacant, they cannot remain there. And they have no information of Krsna. Therefore they again come down. Patanty adhah. He wants enjoyment, but there is no enjoyment. Simply thinking, “I am Brahman.” What is the enjoyment there? You think like a rascal Brahman. Yes, you are Brahman already. Why these sputnik walas, they go…? (Laughter) Devotee: Sputnik walas. Prabhupada: They go very high and again come down? Here is… Why you are coming? You have gone so high. There is no shelter. There is no shelter. He must come down. Similarly, to become desireless, there is no shelter. So you must come to this desire, material desire. Gurukrpa: It says in the Brahma-samhita that they may go for the speed of… Prabhupada: Yes. Gurukrpa: …the mind, but… Prabhupada: Panthas tu koti-sata-vatsara-sampragamyo vayor athapi manaso muni-pungavanam [Bs 5.34]. Just like child. We are experiencing. As soon as we finish, cries. And give him something. “All right.” So there must be something positive. Simply taking away, vacant that will not satisfy. He’ll have to cry again, “Oh, I am vacant. I am vacant.” So Mayavadis’ position is like that. The karmis, yogis, jnanis, all they are fools. Therefore Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya. [Bg. 18.66] “You rascal, you give up all these karmis, yogis, jnani, siddhi… Kick out.” Mam ekam saranam vraja. This is the instruction. “Only unto Me. Then you’ll be satisfied.” Then the karmis may say, “Oh…” Because he has got idea, without working… Just like all these fools and rascals, they are surprised, “How these people do not work, and how are happy?” They cannot imagine that without working hard, one can eat, one can sleep. But when they see that our devotees, they do not work, they are nobody’s servant, “How it is possible?” They cannot think. They cannot think. But it is possible. Therefore the… When Krsna says that mam ekam saranam vraja, that, the karmis, jnanis, they are thinking, “Then how I will live? If I do not…, simply I become a devotee of Krsna, how shall I live?” So therefore Krsna assures: aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami. “I shall give you protection.” This is Krsna consciousness. “You first of all surrender unto Me; Then whatever you want, there will be supply.” Gurukrpa: The karmis, they are always worried. Prabhupada: Eh? Gurukrpa: They are worried. So Krsna… Prabhupada: Karandhara? We made the contract to purchase the Bombay land without money. There was no money at that time. When I signed that contract. Karandhara: Yes. Prabhupada: So wherefrom the money came? Devotees: Krsna. Prabhupada: And not one rupee, two rupees. Eighteen lakhs of rupees. And when I signed the contract, I had no eighteen hundred. (laughter) Svarupa Damodara: You have to make… We have to add one zero… Prabhupada: Eh? Svarupa Damodara: On the right side. You have to add one zero, so that 18 hundred. Gurukrpa: And the time when you signed the contract is the time when Madhudvisa Swami went to Australia. He did not want to stay in Bombay. Prabhupada: No, I asked him that “Whether you can take charge?” He refused, “No, I cannot take charge.” You know that? Gurukrpa: Yes, I heard. Prabhupada: Then Brahmananda give me assurance. “I can take charge.” Therefore I signed. But factually, he was as good as Madhudvisa. (laughs) He made a contract with a, that camp, forty thousand rupees. I settled up for ten thousand rupees. So our work is going on in India and money’s spent. Fifty percent is spoiled by this American brain. What can be done? There is no… They’ll loot. They cheat. Like anything. Just like this camp. It was, it was Brahmananda and Madhudvisa combined together made a contract— forty thousand rupees. Then I said that “Then I am not going to pay you. You go.” In Kumbha Mela also, the contract was ten thousand. So five thousand already paid. So I said, “I have no money. You have to become satisfied with the ten thousand.” So they began some trouble, but after all, accepted. Because they make five hundred percent profit. Gurukrpa: As soon as they see American, it becomes twice as much. Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Twice not. Five hundred times. (laughter) As soon as they face: “They’re Americans. They have got money.” Gurukrpa: Same thing in market. When they go shopping and… Prabhupada: Yes. “Damn cheap.” “Damn cheap, babu.” I have told this story, “Damn cheap, babu”? Eh? Gurukrpa: No. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
January 11, 1974, Los Angeles