Morning Walk Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
April 7, 1974, Bombay

Giriraja: “…want to die. It does not matter whether one is a young man or an old man. So before death takes places we must be fully Krsna conscious.” [break]

Yasomatinandana: They will think it is fairy tale.

Prabhupada: Fairy tale, why?

Yasomatinandana: Because they don’t believe anything that they cannot see with their gross senses.

Prabhupada: That is another foolishness. You cannot see in the sky so many things. Now this plane is going on. It may be unseen for some time. So that is the only reason? Because they cannot see? They cannot see milk? They have seen milk or not?

Yasomatinandana: Their experience of sea is that it has salt water.

Prabhupada: No, this is water. As water is also liquid, milk is also liquid. So if there is ocean of water, why not ocean of milk?

Yasomatinandana: There can be, but,…

Prabhupada: There can be, yes. So how they can say that there cannot be?

Yadubara: They would say that “The milk comes from the cow. So how could it be an ocean?”

Prabhupada: Water comes from man. If you pass urine, there is water. What is the difference? The water also comes from…

Yasomatinandana: It is just that it is beyond their experience.

Prabhupada: That experience should be gathered from authority.

Yasomatinandana: Yes. I also tell them sometimes that “Did you see your grandfather?” They say “Well, no.” “But you still accept that he was there.” They say, “Yes, because my father tells me, somebody else says.” Similarly, I said that “Even though you didn’t see your grandfather, you accept that there is a grandfather.” [break]

Prabhupada: …contradiction of the law of gravitation. According to our sastra the planets are held on the hood of Ananta. He is carrying. But they say they are staying on account of law of gravitation.

Yasomatinandana: That is Krsna’s supreme energy as you explain, tejo-vari-mrdam yatha vinimaya, that is water, He creates, He can do anything. The scientists may make any laws.

Prabhupada: No. But they cannot use that law. They cannot float any other thing in the air by this law. Still they say, “There is law of gravitation.”

Giriraja: “They were also informed of the external…” [break]

Prabhupada: He have to accept so much dowry, how many thousands horses?

Giriraja: Fifteen thousand.

Prabhupada: So who will take dowry like this? (laughing) And how many? Four hundred elephants. Who can maintain four hundred elephants? Nowadays horses and elephants are not selling because nobody can maintain. Yes.

Yasomatinandana: Only the zoos.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] …animal-eaters, later on, they will not find animals to eat. They will eat themselves. Because animals are not being maintained, they may be, according to Darwin’s theory, extinct.

Satsvarupa: In the US and everywhere they maintain them just for slaughter. So will that dwindle out?

Prabhupada: Yes, slaughtering, slaughtering. When there will be no more, where this question of slaughtering?

Yasomatinandana: Yes. When there are no more animals, where will reproduce?

Prabhupada: They maintain elephant also for slaughtering?

Satsvarupa: No.

Yasomatinandana: When I was in America I heard last year there was a beef shortage. There was a meat shortage.

Prabhupada: Yes. Meat shortage, yes.

Yasomatinandana: They import a lot of beef from Australia.

Prabhupada: Hm. Go on reading.

Indian man: Here also scarcity will start. Slaughtering means… [break]

Prabhupada: This example is given. Suppose we are walking. This step, when I assure that “This is all right, it is not, it will not go down,” then I take up this. Then again this. This example is given. Similarly, change of body like that. As soon as it is settled up what kind of body he is going to accept or which is being offered to him, daiva-netrena, by higher authority, then this man leaves this body and again enters in the womb of the body which he is destined to get. This is the process of death.

Yadubara: Is that immediate, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Immediate. Just like immediate I am walking. When it is fixed up, then I take up. Then when it is fixed up, then I take up, like this. Immediately.

Yasomatinandana: What about hell? How does the jiva soul go to hell?

Prabhupada: Yes. They go. Those who are going to hell, that is fixed up very quickly. It doesn’t take much time. Hell means he is getting the next body, hellish body. That’s all. Suppose he is going to get the hellish body to become the worm of stool, so in that way he enters the worm, mother worm, to get the body and enjoy the hell. That’s all.

Satsvarupa: Don’t they sometimes have to go to Yamaraja first for practice?

Prabhupada: Yes. That is daiva-netrena. These things are finished very quickly. And if it takes little time, then this man who is dying, he remains in coma and does not die. Because the judgement is going on, the decision waiting, coma. You have seen sometimes a man is in coma for seven days, eight days? Yes. That means his judgement is going on, that… Such kind of death means very sinful death. Not yet settled up, very complicated case. Therefore it takes time.

Yadubara: What about persons who die in their sleep? Is that a sinful death?

Prabhupada: Yes. Dream or awakened, everything is dream, gross dream and subtle dream. That’s all. This is also dream. What do you mean by dream? Dream means existent for a little period. That’s all. So night dream is for two hours and this dream is for twenty-four hours.

Yasomatinandana: So in other words when it says that one goes to hell, any lower species is also like hell. If one is going to assume a dog’s body, then does he go to hell before he assumes a dog’s body?

Prabhupada: There is statement like that, that one is put into the hellish condition for practicing little, and then he is put into the womb of such mother.

Yasomatinandana: Is that a long duration of practice or just…, very short?

Prabhupada: No, very short. Short mean their short. It may take little more time.

Giriraja: Now they have machines that when the person is in coma, the machines artificially keep the heart beating and the other processes…

Prabhupada: Then heart beating will go on, either you apply machine or no machine. Heart beating. But when the heart stops, no machine can revive it. So what is the use of machine? But by nature’s way when the heart beating will stop, no machine can help. That is not possible.

Giriraja: So the doctors face a dilemma, that they keep the heart going by the machine, but they don’t know whether the patient is actually living or dead. So they are afraid to stop the machine. They don’t know how to decide when to stop the machine.

Prabhupada: But when they stop it…?

Giriraja: Then the patient is dead. (laughter)

Yasomatinandana: That is the modern science, so imperfect. They don’t even know whether a person is live or dead.

Prabhupada: What do they know? They know something, but everyone knows. Even the birds and beasts, they also know something.

Giriraja: “In this way, one after another the body changes and the soul transmigrates. See how the plant worms change from one twig to another so carefully. Similarly the living entity changes his body as soon as the higher authorities decide on his next body.” [break]

Prabhupada: …the modern civlization is that they have no knowledge about the change of body. Almost 99 percent people, they do not know.

Yasomatinandana: Even the so-called religions, the religions even don’t teach.

Prabhupada: They do not know.

Giriraja: “This body is exactly like one of the bodies which we always see in dreams. During our dream of sleep we create so many bodies according to mental creation.” [break]

Prabhupada: …the psychologically whatever mental condition we prepare throughout this life, that means you are preparing next life, and in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajanty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6] The situation of the mind at the time of death will carry you to the similar body. Just like one who likes to eat some special foodstuff, so… Suppose the meat-eaters… So the mentality is “How to eat meat, how to eat meat.” So they are given next life the canine teeth to give facility for eating meat. Canine teeth means dogs, cats, tigers, like that.

Giriraja: “Unless we have a particular type of body, we cannot enjoy or suffer according to our mental proclivities inherited from the previous life.” [break]

Prabhupada: …another example. Asango ’yam purusah. It is said that this living entity is untouched by this material body. Asango ’yam purusah. So the example is given that the moon reflected on water appears to be moving, but moon is separate from that movement. (Hindi) Go on. (Hindi) [break] …good example. Unnecessarily he thinks that “I belong to this country, I belong to this society.” That means he creates another body. And if he knows perfectly well that “I do not belong to any of these bodies,” that is brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. That teaching required, that every being is unattached to this body. Therefore yasyatma-buddhih kunape… Anyone who is maintaining himself under bodily concept of life, he is no better than the animals. [break] The demonic person does not accept any good lesson. Murkhayopadeso hi prakopaya na santaye. Because he is foolish, if you give him good advice, he will be angry. Still, we have to do that.

Giriraja: But it is better to find some innocent persons, for preaching.

Prabhupada: Yes, better field, those who are innocent. That is the duty of the preacher, four things: isvare tad-adhinesu balisesu dvisatsu ca. The preacher should see four things. First of all isvara, the Supreme Person, God. So that vision must be there. He knows what is isvara or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then tad-adhinesu, those who have taken shelter of that isvara. That means devotees. Tad-adhinesu. And then balisesu. Balisesu means those who are innocent, have no sufficient knowledge, innocent. And dvisatsu. And there is always a class of men who are envious of God, dvisat. Dvisat means envious. So preacher has to see these four classes of men or three classes. One, isvara, and the other three classes. So he has to behave like that. To behave with isvara— prema, how to love. That is his business. How to increase love for the Supreme. Prema. Maitri, how to make friendship with the devotee. And to the innocent—krpa, how to become merciful. And to the envious—upeksa, negligence, not to talk with them. Four behavior. Isvare tad-a… This is madhyama adhikari. And the position of the preacher is madhyama adhihkari. Therefore they have to point out, “Here is a jealous man, envious man.” But people do not want it. They say, “Why you are pointing out? Why you are pointing out?” But this is business of the preacher. Otherwise how he will preach?

Giriraja: They want to be artificially the uttama adhikari, to see everyone as nice.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, everyone as nice, except himself. Uttama adhikari vision, that everyone is nice. Then the preacher is also nice. Why you find out fault with the preacher? So imitation uttama adhikari will not help.

Giriraja: [break] “…those who are demoniac or atheistic by nature can hardly assimilate any good instruction, however authorized it may be. That is the difference between a demigod and a demon.” [break]

Prabhupada: Therefore, at the present moment, bhogaisvarya-prasaktanam tayapahrta-cetasam. Demons, they are too much attached to material enjoyment, bhoga and aisvarya. So they cannot take to it. Therefore our general principle is to perform sankirtana, not to talk philosophy. When one is interested, then he can talk philosophy. Otherwise this talk should be amongst inner circles, with the students and the teacher, those who are submissive. Otherwise it should be avoided. It will create misunderstanding.

Satsvarupa: What about programs at schools and colleges?

Prabhupada: Because they are innocent. The children, they are innocent. So if possible, give them some enlightenment, krpa, to become merciful upon them. So far children are concerned, they hear, they try to learn. Just like in Dallas, whatever we say, they accept. They do not protest. Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna. Then?

Giriraja: “Vasudeva thought of his wife as follows: ‘For the present let me save the life of Devaki and later on, if there are children, I shall see how to save them.’ He further thought…”

Prabhupada: This is the consideration. By policy if he could save his wife, that first. He was following like that…

Giriraja: “ ‘If in the future I get a child who can kill Kamsa, just as Kamsa is thinking, then both Devaki and the child will be saved, because the law of providence is inconceivable. But now someway or other let me save the life of Devaki.’ ” [break]

Prabhupada: …jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.

Giriraja: “Similarly, a living entity may be very careful and fearful in the matter of executing his duties, but it is still very difficult for him to know what type of body he is going to get in the next life. Maharaja Bharata was very faithfully executing the duties of self- realization, but by chance he contacted temporary affection for a deer, and he had to accept his next life in the body of a deer.” [break]

Prabhupada: Yes. Not liberal. He was truthful. He used to bring all the sons as soon as born to Kamsa, and he was killing.

Giriraja: “Kamsa knew the value of Vasudeva’s word of honor and he was convinced by his arguments. For the time being he desisted from the heinous killing of his sister. Thus Vasudeva was pleased and praised the decision of Kamsa. In this way he returned to his home. After due course of time Vasudeva and Devaki gave birth to eight male children as well as…” [break]

Prabhupada: Demons are known as sura-dvisam, sura-dvisam, those who are envious of the demigods, sura-dvisa. Sammohaya sura-dvisam [SB 1.3.24] This word is used in the Bhagavata: “just to cheat the demons,” sammohaya sura-dvisam. [break] That is the instruction of Narada. You see? Then?

Giriraja: “Within the prison, shackled in iron chains, Vasudeva and Devaki gave birth to a male child year after year. Kamsa, thinking each of the babies to be the incarnation of Visnu, killed them one after another.”

Prabhupada: Yes. He killed his brother. He was merciful upon the father only, kept him in the prison. Otherwise he killed the whole family—brother, brother’s son and everyone. [break] …present kings, such incidences are very many in the history, killing everyone. There is another story that Pana, Pana?

Yasomatinandana: Panavada.(?)

Prabhupada: Yes. The child was to be killed and the…

Yasomatinandana: Sarvan sevya.(?)

Prabhupada: Yes, Hare Krsna. The maidservant, she changed her own son and kept the real royal family, defended him. Her child was killed.

Yasomatinandana: Is it a true story?

Prabhupada: Yes, why not? [break] …and maternal uncle of Ravana.

Yasomatinandana: Did Kamsa also achieve the grace? He was immediately transferred to the spiritual planets after he was killed?

Prabhupada: Yes. [break]

Giriraja: …being killed by Visnu in his previous life he wasn’t transferred?

Prabhupada: No, three times he had to take birth. Hiranyaksa.

Yasomatinandana: Is that Jaya and Vijaya?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Yasomatinandana: He was one of them?

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] …becomes envious of others, they take birth as dogs, snake, sarpa krura khala krura. So much subtle laws are working. They do not know.

Yasomatinandana: Their limited intelligence.

Prabhupada: Limited intelligence, yes. [break]

Yasomatinandana: …nirmatsaranam.

Prabhupada: Ah, paramo nirmatsaranam satam vastavya vastu vedyam atra. Not for anyone. Paramo nirmatsaranam. That means devotees. Devotees are nirmatsara, not envious. Otherwise everyone is envious. [break] …like a vehicle like this. In U.P. there is, called tanga.

Yasomatinandana: Surat also, they have a lot of these.

Prabhupada: Tanga? Like this?

Yasomatinandana: Not like this. (end)