Morning Walk
at Villa Borghese
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
May 26, 1974, Rome

Prabhupada: Yajna means to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is yajna. [break]

Bhagavan: ISKCON has a camera.

Yogesvara: Should we take a picture right here? [break]

Prabhupada: …philosophy and the so many bogus swamis’ philosophies, they are different. They offer some material benefit by their philosophy. “If you take this mantra, then your material life will be easier.” People are captivated for material benefit. Spiritual benefit, they do not understand, and neither our philosophy provides any facility for material benefit. Although spiritual benefit includes material benefit, but people do not understand this.

Bhagavan: It appears that by taking to Krsna consciousness, one becomes less materially benefitted.

Prabhupada: That is the benefit they do not understand. Here the philosophy is to make nil material benefit. And that is sometimes havoc for others. Niskincanasya. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says… (aside:) Don’t bring near. Niskincanasya. Niskincana means… Kincana means something and niskincana means even no something. Kincana means something, to possess something, and niskincana means to possess nothing. Niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajana… So go back to home back to Godhead, is meant for such persons who has nothing to possess here. That is very difficult. Niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya param param jigamisor bhava-sagarasya. The real aim, real benefit, is how to be transferred to the other nature, spiritual nature. Param param. They do not know that beyond the sky, there is spiritual sky, there is another nature. They have no information. Even they do not know what are there in higher planetary systems. They think, “Here everything is…” This is an insignificant planet in the whole creation, but their fund of knowledge so poor, they think this is the position. They are trying to maintain what was achieved.

Dhananjaya: We can go down. We can go around.

Bhagavan: The stones seem very rough. Maybe we go back this way.

Prabhupada: I have no objection.

Yogesvara: There are stones on the ground, too.

Bhagavan: A little material benefit, that increase, they take to be spiritual.

Prabhupada: Yes. Gymnastic. Just like a man, by bodily exercise, he becomes a little strong. His digestive function becomes very easy, he can eat more. He can enjoy more sex life. These benefits they want. And if you promise all these benefits, they become attracted. And they cannot understand, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9] After giving up this body, we do not accept anymore material body, but go to back to home, back to… These things they cannot understand.

Yogesvara: Can we take a picture right here, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: It is beyond their understanding.

Bhagavan: We are the only ones who are preaching like that.

Prabhupada: Yes. Spiritual benefits, they do not understand. What is this building? This is also old construction?

Bhagavan: It’s a church. (asking someone:) Is that from the Roman empire? [break]

Prabhupada: …in right position. All wonderful buildings, there is no doubt. Such huge buildings in any other parts of the world is not visible. Just the thickness of the building.

Bhagavan: They kept many slaves the Romans. They had many slaves.

Prabhupada: Yes. Slaves? This word is used in Vedic language also, slave. The Africans, they were meant for becoming slaves.

Yogesvara: Srila Prabhupada, can we take a picture here please?

Prabhupada: Yes. Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah. So the Kiratas, they were always slaves of the Aryans. The Aryan people used to keep slaves, but they were treating slaves very nicely. Later on it degraded. Otherwise, slaves were kept just like family members.

Bhagavan: They had no resentment.

Prabhupada: No, they were very happy. Just like you keep a dog. It is slave but it is very happy under the protection of good master.

Bhagavan: Actually, they like to work hard.

Prabhupada: Yes, they like to work hard and they want good protection. That is their happiness. Even still in Africa, the servants, domestic servants, Africans, I have seen in Indian family, they are very happy. They are very happy, and the master also takes care of them. They want to eat sumptuously, and that’s all. They have no other ambition. They don’t want any motorcar or like this, no. And they work very nicely, domestic work, very clean. But sometimes they steal. That is their habit. My father used to say, “If you do not allow the servants to steal, so don’t keep.” Don’t keep servants. “A servant who does not steal, he is not a gentleman. He must steal.”

Bhagavan: He must steal.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is their satisfaction. So you must allow them. In old zamindar family, they will pay the manager five rupees per month, salary, and allow them to steal. That was simply a token salary that “You are servant.” And the manager was so clever, he would steal, but he would not spoil the property of the master. He will manage very nicely that he will extra, make extra income and steal. The master will not be touched. Master will be happy. Master knows that “I am paying him five rupees. That is nothing.” And he is constructing big building, getting his sons and daughters married very luxuriantly. Master is… Even fifty years before, there was a zamindar, Raja Manindra Candranandi. He was very magnanimous man, making various charities. So if somebody will complain, “Sir, your this servant is stealing like this,” he would be very angry. The man who complains, he will be angry upon him, “Why do you come and complain?” He will not accept any complaint. Rather, he will be angry with the man who complains.

Yogesvara: May we have one more picture, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes. Hare Krsna. What are the history of these buildings?

Bhagavan: These were temples here, demigod temples.

Prabhupada: This style of building, arch, is seen in New Delhi also, constructed by the Moguls. This was also a temple?

Bhagavan: No. This was an arena where they used to watch wrestling, fighting.

Prabhupada: [break] …devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That’s all. Then their bodies changed, and nobody knows what kind of body he has got. This is materialism. Suppose if you are offered some very nice comfortable life, and if you know that “Next life I am going to become a dog,” would you be happy? But they have no information that what next body… Body, he has to take another body. He cannot enjoy. Whatever he has created, he cannot enjoy for good. That is not possible. He has to leave it. Just like these Romans. They have left. They constructed so big, big building just to enjoy, but they had to leave it by nature’s force and accept another body. That they do not know. They are satisfied, “Never mind, I accept the next life a dog’s body. Now let me enjoy this, say, twenty-five years or fifty years, that’s all.” This is their philosophy. No future. “Trust no future, however pleasant.” In India, those who are interested in spiritual life, they take sannyasa. Everybody sannyasa, babaji. Rupa Gosvami gave up his service, everything, and became no possessions voluntarily. Big, big kings, Bharata Maharaja… To practice that “I have no more interest in anything material.” [break] …introduction of my Guru Maharaja that sannyasis and preachers may use big, big buildings, motorcars and…, just to give the information to the western world. Because they, if you ask them, that “You become a mendicant, possessionless,” still, they are not very much interested. Because they see our dress, our living condition is not very equal to their standard, they do not like. Is it not? Yes. So just to give these Westerners facilities at least to understand this philosophy, this method was accepted by Guru Maharaja, to live in nice building, to have cars, to use everything for Krsna consciousness. Otherwise, nobody would take.

Bhagavan: It was revolutionary.

Prabhupada: Yes. Tyaga-bhumika, renouncement. The platform of renouncement. So how this was broken, by war fights or what? Huh? Last war?

Devotee: Yes. The bombs?

Bhagavan: These are all holes.

Prabhupada: Just see, in humanity. The historical buildings, what is there? They destroy them. This building, I think it was constructed later.

Bhagavan: Yeah, this is new building. [break]

Devotee: …couldn’t understand how they put the buildings together, how they stayed so long, what they used to make it stay together.

Yogesvara: Yesterday Dhananjaya said the Coliseum was made of marble.

Devotee: It is the same earth, but they make it…

Bhagavan: Plaster it?

Devotee: Yeah. To be stronger.

Bhagavan: Special earth.

Devotee: (indistinct) [break]

Bhagavan: …spiritual culture, they cannot even enjoy materially very nicely.

Prabhupada: No.

Devotee: This (indistinct).

Prabhupada: Yes. There are so many buildings we see the frog (?)… (end)