Room Conversations
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Vrndavana, September 10, 1974

Prabhupada: …within the fire, that will increase appetite. That is the psychology. Within the fire. Long, long years ago I did it, and I got very good appetite. And whatever nonsense it appears, it was very sweet.

Gurudasa: Yes. I used to cook myself before meeting Yamuna.

Prabhupada: Long, long ago?

Gurudasa: Yes.

Prabhupada: And it was very nice?

Gurudasa: It was nonsense, but I enjoyed it.

Prabhupada: In India amongst the brahmanas, this self cooking is very much (indistinct).

Gurudasa: I think it… (break) …prasadam in a very simple way. When you cook yourself, very simple.

Prabhupada: Yes. (break)

Gurudasa: …Radha-Damodara, did you cook yourself?

Prabhupada: Hm.

Gurudasa: Sarajini helped?

Prabhupada: Sarajini simply washed the dishes, cleansed the room, set out the bedding. I was cooking. (break)

Devotee (1): Soviet, Soviet Land, I forget the exact title. And this one woman was a poet.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee (1): She was a poet. In one article in the magazine. And she was…, stated in her magazine how much she was sorry about her youth.

Prabhupada: Youth.

Devotee (1): Yeah, that she was living very poorly, and her father had to work all day very hard as a goldsmith or tinsmith. And how she remembers her mother, that she was kept in such poor conditions that all her life she was very miserable. And she said that she was thinking that her mother might have been a great poet or a great scientist, but because of being oppressed by the higher class of Russia that she could not develop, she simply was forced to live a very poor life. So I was able to understand that actually they are thinking that being oppressed by the higher classes, the lower class cannot properly develop their qualities.

Prabhupada: That is a fact. But this higher class and lower class will continue to exist. Even it is existing in communistic countries. That cannot…, you cannot stop in this material world. The tendency is that everyone is thinking that he shall be the best enjoyer, best enjoyer. So this is called struggle for existence. Naturally, this higher class and lower class will remain. You cannot stop it. Even in communistic country, this Khrushchev was driven away. He was taking all advantages for his family, for himself. As soon as he got the post, he misused it. He gave his son-in-law very big post, his family members. That was detected, and he was charged that “You are using your influence, nepotism.” Therefore, he was driven away. So this natural tendency, as soon as one gets power, he will try to utilize it. This psychology you cannot stop in the material world. That is not possible. That sacrificing spirit, that “My life is dedicated to Krsna,” then it is possible. Otherwise, as soon as one will get some position and power, he will try to utilize it for his personal benefit. How you can stop it? It is like if you try to make the lion nonviolent. Is it possible? Why lion? Even an ant is violent. Even an ant it is violent. As soon as it gets opportunity, it will bite you. So this tendency of artificial supremacy means material life. That is material life. So how you can stop it? That separation is going on. You see in the spiritual life also. My Godbrothers, they are trying to suppress me. They are writing articles that in foreign countries these things…, Ratha-yatra is going on, so many temples have been, but they will never mention my name. They have suppressed. They want to… They write articles in such a way that Bon Maharaja has done so much and they have done so much, and my name is not mentioned. This spirit, “Oh, this man is going so high.” Therefore, Bhagavata says nirmatsaranam. You know the meaning of nirmatsaranam?

Devotee (1): “Without envy”?

Prabhupada: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhagavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsaranam, those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Krsna and in relationship with Krsna loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other’s money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop’s Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to…, he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that “Another dog is carrying, so I shall take.” So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

daivi hy esa guna-mayi

mama maya duratyaya

mam eva ye prapadyante

mayam etam taranti te

This material nature can be avoided only by one who is Krsna conscious. Otherwise, it is not possible. That example is given by Ramananda Raya. He is touching naked woman, washing, dressing, touching, because he is not in the material world. That is the example given by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. In the material world, as soon as you think of woman, you will be (indistinct). In the spiritual world, you can touch even a naked, beautiful, young woman but you will be (indistinct). That is the difference. Hrd-rogah kamam.

vikriditam idam ca visnoh vraja-vadhubhir

sraddhanvito ‘nusrnuyad atha varnayed yah

bhaktim param (bhagavati) pratilabhya kamam

hrd-rogam asv apahinoty acirena dhirah

Acirena dhirah. So advanced spiritual life means he becomes dhira. He is no more disturbed by these material laws, and he becomes free of all lusty desires. This is spiritual perfection. So long you have got lusty desires, any position immediately you will try to same way snatch (indistinct). Never satisfied. Hrd-rogah kamam, that is the heart disease. It has been described as heart disease. Lusty desire within the heart. Just like one who has got heart disease, he succumbs to that disease, similarly, all these living entities they have succumbed—what is called, succumb?—by lusty desires. By spiritual advancement means that heart disease is cured. Then you will be… Then there is no more envious that “I shall become superior. I shall become Krsna. I shall become God.” These are different symptoms of the same material disease. Somebody is thinking “I shall become minister,” somebody is thinking “I shall become leader,” somebody is thinking “I shall become millionaire,” and at last, “I shall become God.” So even the so-called religionist, that heart disease is there. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi kami. Bhukti means ordinary karmis want to enjoy in this material world. And mukti, they also want “I shall become God, I shall become one with God.” That means “I shall become God.” One with God means I’ll become. Bhukti-mukti and siddhi. The yogis, they want to show some magic power and gain. Just like this rascal is doing, (indistinct) Baba. He has some yogic siddhi, so he has some (indistinct). Otherwise what is the attraction? He is a most wretched man, always he’s smoking, and he sleeps too long, no regulation of life. But people are attracted because they have been captivated that “If I pay him one lakh, I shall get two lakhs.” This is the propaganda. It is a…, what is called, gambling. You put one rupee, and if you are successful you will get four rupees. Siddhi. Because material world, they think “If I get more money, then it is perfection.” Everywhere, the whole world is thinking—nationwise, individual—how to become. You will find in Europe the same propensity. Napoleon is trying to make Paris the most opulent city in Europe. Or Englishmen, Gladstone and others, they are trying to make England, London, most opulent city in the world. Similarly, czar was very accomplished. (indistinct) it is burst out into war. So we see the propensity. In Paris, the Place Concorde, so many beautiful buildings are there for museum, how they have conquered. In Rome, how they have conquered over Egypt, that pyramid they have brought. You have been in Rome?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: You have seen?

Devotee (2): They have a pyramid?

Prabhupada: Yes, they have brought.

Devotee (1): It’s a long obelisk that are there, brought from Egypt.

Prabhupada: And in the British Museum you will find so many things plundered from here, plundered from here. In the Rome, they are also maintaining such museums, and Paris I saw. This is their competition—wholesale plundering, wholesale plundering.

Devotee (2): They take it… (break)

Prabhupada: We take that it is a competition of the thieves. All rascals. That’s not the civilization. And Mahabharata history also we find so many demons. Just like…, what is called, that asura, he simply plundered all the beautiful princesses.

Devotee (2): Bhaumasura?

Prabhupada: Bhaumasura, something like that. They all of them became Krsna’s wife. They prayed to Krsna to be rescued from the hands of… Then Krsna rescued them, killed that Bhaumasura, and excused them, then they were set free. Then their plea that “We are set free, that’s all right, but we cannot go home because we were kidnapped. So we shall not be married. Nobody will accept us.” “Then what do you want?” “You become our husband.” “All right.” Krsna becomes (indistinct). This is going on. Somebody is thinking of money, somebody is thinking of woman. These two things, money and woman, and whole struggle (indistinct). The Musselman nawabs, they used to keep… That one nawab, they have got his quarters in Lucknow, he had 160 wives. Even in recent, you know this (name withheld)? His elder brother, (name withheld), practically he is the origin of the (name withheld) concern. So I was a guest of the (indistinct). So he has got three wives—one Bengali wife, one (indistinct) wife, and his original wife being Jain. He had three, four wives. And each wife’s establishment, ten thousand rupees per month. So he is earning money and he is spending it. Earning money by black market, this way, that way, and his whole day’s business is that go to some wife’s house, remain there for some hours, then next wife, remain there for some hours, and he thinks, “I am a king.” Still he is living. He is of my age, old man. And each wife has got dozens of children. They’re not his.

Devotee (2): He cannot keep them satisfied.

Prabhupada: How it is possible? He’s an old man and the wives are young. But they have got dozens of children, and he is trying to give each child five lakhs of rupees. That is to keep the wife. Everyone is trying that. Natural affection, beget children as many as you like, and then bring money and give them. That is (indistinct). This is that heart disease. How you can stop it? The rascals, they do not know it cannot be done. The lower class, still they are maintaining. Manager class, the worker class. That is going on. That higher and lower level must continue in the material world. You cannot stop it. Individually, nationally, communally.

Devotee (1): They have simply taken the sides of the low class against the upper class.

Prabhupada: That is a sympathy. But you cannot change it. That is not possible. It is very good sympathy.

Devotee (1): This poet, in her poetry, her business was to try to create that sentiment.

Prabhupada: (Sanskrit) He is not poet. Poet means he must have full knowledge. Then if he writes poetry, that will be beneficial. The rascal’s poetry, just like in your country, one line, three lines, one line. This is rascaldom; it is not poetry. (aside:) You should not show your feet before the Deity. That is possible only in Krsna consciousness. We teach our men to address his fellow man as prabhu: “You are master, I am servant.” In the material world, everyone is trying to become master; nobody is trying to become servant. And we are teaching that you try to become servant. Just the opposite. Nobody will agree. Therefore, they say the Vaisnava religion is slave mentality. They say. They do not know that it is success of life to become slave of Krsna. They do not know. Who has become happy trying to become master? (indistinct)

Devotee (2): They’ll all be cheated.

Prabhupada: No, not a single person. Actually he remains slave, artificially he thinks that “I am master.” Just like Nixon was thinking. He was actually slave of the nation, but he was thinking, “I am master.” When he was pressed too much, he had to admit, “Yes, I am your slave.” He was pressed. Rather, oppressed. Nobody is thinking. Idam adya maya labdham imam prapsye punar dhanam. Everyone is thinking, “I have got now so much money (indistinct) …lot of money, so who is better than me?” (indistinct) She has become poet. Nonsense number one, and she is poet. Does not know the human psychology or animal psychology. The human psychology, animal psychology, that you have seen on the road, the sex. The animal does not require any education. The animal knows how to use sex; the man knows how to use sex. Where is the difference? Simply she is animal, she does the sex intercourse in a public street, animal (indistinct) an apartment, very nice apartment (indistinct). It is (indistinct), either you are dog or a human being, the fact is. He also sleeps. He sleeps on the street anywhere, and we sleep in a nice apartment. He also eats, and the human being also eats. He eats the stool and we eat very nice, palatable foodstuff. That sleeping propensity is there, sex life is there, and he is also afraid of enemies. Where is the difference? Difference is that dog cannot be taught Krsna consciousness but a man can be taught. That is the difference. So if man does not take advantage of this human life, how to become Krsna conscious, then he is no better than a dog. He has no (indistinct)

Devotee (1): So her poetry is just like the braying of the ass.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (1): Her poetry was just like the braying of the ass.

Prabhupada: Yes. Thinking, simply imagining that they shall be happy in this way. And accusing others. You cannot become happy in that way, that he will accuse, “He is the cause. He is the impediment of my perfect happiness.” Envious, the same enviousness.

Devotee (2): Therefore, let me eliminate you.

Prabhupada: Yes. Same enviousness. Nirmatsarata(?). Yaya sammohito jiva.

bhakti-yogena manasi

samyak pranihite ’male

apasyat purusam purnam

mayam ca tad-apasrayam

Yaya sammohito jiva. Vyasadeva, by bhakti-yoga, he saw two things: the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the maya on the back side. Which maya? Maya… Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has many maya features. Yaya sammohito jiva. That maya by whom the whole material world and living entities are captivated. Yaya sammohito jiva, atmanam tri-gunatmakam. And being captivated by this maya, although he is pure spirit soul, he is thinking, “I am material. I am this body.” Atmanam tri-gunatmakam, manute, tat- krtam cabhipadyate. In this way he thinks, and influenced by maya he acts. This is the position he saw.

So this is called anartha, a position which is false. Anarthopasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje. In order to deliver him from this illusory position, anartha upasamam bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yogam adhoksaje lokasya ajanatah. The whole world does not know it. Vidvams cakre satvata-samhitam. Therefore, Vyasadeva, the most learned, he compiled this Srimad-Bhagavatam. Anarthopasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje. These things are there in the Bhagavata. Same process. Vyasadeva did for the benefit of the whole world, the Gosvamis did for the benefit of the whole world, and we are also trying to do the same thing.

anarthopasamam saksad

bhakti-yogam adhoksaje

lokasyajanato vidvams

cakre satvata-samhitam

This is parampara system. The Gosvamis also did it. Nana-sastra- vicaranaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau lokanam hita- karinau, for the benefit of the (indistinct). We are pushing this Krsna consciousness movement for the benefit of the whole world, not that for our individual person. Vaisnava, whatever he does, he does for the whole world, not for his person. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami, they do for their own person. Karmis, jnanis, yogis, for their personal benefit. That is also materialism. Vaisnavism, lokanam hita-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau. Therefore, honored all over the three worlds, their activities and their person. Tri-bhuvane manyau saranyakarau. Therefore, they should be taken shelter of. Vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau. Narottama dasa Thakura confirmed, ei chaya gosani yara, tara mui dasa, “One who has taken shelter of the six Gosvamis, I am his servant, nobody’s servant.”

ei chaya gosani yara, tara mui dasa,

tan’ sabara pada-renu mora panca-grasa

“I want to only eat the dust of the (indistinct).”

tandera carana sevi bhakta-sane vasa

janame janame haya, ei abhilasa

Everything is there; simply we have to learn how to utilize it. Our Acyutananda Swami has written that introduction, he’s realizing (indistinct). This Krsna consciousness means the life of realization, self-realization, what I am. As Sanatana Gosvami presented himself (indistinct), “What I am?” (break)

But if you remain diseased, then just like I have got this disease, no appetite. First-class things are being made—nothing is giving me any taste. Disease is there. Therefore, if you want to taste what is God, then you first of all try to cure your disease. Our disease, material disease is the lusty desire. Lusty desire is so strong that you will find it is existing amongst the so-called religionists performing religious rituals. But the same disease is there, that “If I execute the rituals, then I shall be promoted to the heavenly kingdom (indistinct).” Similarly, the so-called monist philosophers, meditation, this, that, the disease is there: “I shall become God.” Similarly, the yogis, they can perform so many gymnastics, but the disease is there. The disease is cured when he is a devotee of Krsna. Krsna-bhakta niskama, ataeva ‘santa’. By krsna-bhakti, you cure the disease. Hrd-rogah kamam apahinoty acirena dhirah. This is the only… Unless you have cured your material disease, you have to remain in this material world in any form and fulfill your material desire. The ant is also trying and Lord Brahma is also trying. Hrd- rogam. (break) He cannot sit down peacefully. At any moment, (indistinct). Padam padam vipadam. The material world means in every step there is danger. Every step. However you step… (end)