Morning Walk Conversation Harikesa: Morning walk, June 18th. Prabhupada: …their own food, it takes working eight hours for three months. So three months, if they work hard—hard means eight hours, not more than—then the whole year’s provision is there. Siddha-svarupa: Yes. Simply they have to harvest, time, maybe two hours a day. Farming or being in the countryside also seems to be, in itself working in the countryside rather than in a factory, seems to be more conducive for thinking, even while they’re working. Prabhupada: No, it is a fact. This factory working is most demonic. It is not required at all. For the interest of a few persons this device has been invented. Therefore the Communist movement is there. And the China has found the Communistic movement in Russia is defective because although it is Communistic, the whole idea of exploitation by the powerful is there. Siddha-svarupa: Yes, that is their argument actually. Prabhupada: Yes. And that is the fact. And Chinese Communism will be perfect if they take little instruction from us. We are also Communist, Krsna Communist. We want that everyone should be happy. The Communistic philosophy is also like that. They want to see everyone happy. But they have made a materialistic center. That will not help. People are attracted to these bad habits of materialistic civilization. The most important is that sex and intoxication and meat-eating and gambling. So their attraction has to be changed. Otherwise, although these Chinese, they are pushing in the village, that village also will be a brothel. They must have some attraction. So where is that attraction? Just like the hippies. They do not like this civilization, but the attraction for the sex and intoxication they could not give up. So they remain the nasty again in a different way. The process should be mayy asakta-manah partha yogam yunjan mad-asrayah. That attraction. Mayy asakta. “The attraction which you…, should be changed to Me.” This yoga should be practiced. Then it will be all right. The same example: if you keep the dogs as dog, there is no possibility of making a peaceful dog society. That is not possible. You have to change their doggish quality. Then there will be peace. How you can expect peaceful society amongst the dogs? Siddha-svarupa: Actually the Chinese are attempting artificially to keep the people… Prabhupada: But they do not know that where is the defect. Defect is that everyone has got some attraction. Somebody has attraction for his personal self. Somebody has got attraction for wife, children, family, then attraction for society. In this way they talk of many things. They have come to attraction of humanity. They are all nonsense. The attraction is for sense gratification under different names only. My attraction for family is not for their benefit. By my sense gratification the family members help me, therefore I am attracted. The wife gives me pleasure; therefore I like wife. The wife also likes husband because husband gives pleasure. Otherwise, there is no attraction. As soon as the husband and wife fails to give pleasure, divorce. The son goes out. The daughter goes out. So everyone is prone to some attraction. So if you keep them in the material attraction, then you can change the name; the disease will continue. That is the difficulty. You can change the name from this ism to that ism but every ism is material. Mudha nabhijanati. That is also… “The mudha, these rascal, they do not know mam, Me, Krsna,” param avyayam, “inexhaustible pleasure.” Krsna is the reservoir of all pleasure. In the Vrndavana there is sporting. There is association with young girls, father, mother. Everything is exactly like this. And in any circumstance they are happy. It is not that in Vrndavana Krsna is a sannyasi. He cannot see the face of woman. It is not like that. (chuckles) But because it is spiritual, it is all-attractive. There are also the trees, animals, the river, the fruits, the flowers, the father, the mother, the beloved girls, beloved boys, sporting among the cowherd boys, going to the forest, the cows and calves, everything. So that attraction is required. The Mayavadi philosophers, they are thinking, “Again attraction like this? So make it zero, no attraction. Become zero.” So their philosophy is zero philosophy. That is also no information of the spiritual world, Buddha philosophy and Mayavada philosophy, sunyavadi, nirvisesa, without varieties or zero. Without varieties means zero. So two philosophers. But therefore they invent: “Anything is all right.” They invent. After all, they want zeroism. [break] …partha yogam yunjan mad-asrayah. [break] …one increases the attraction for Krsna, they will never be happy. [break] …simply changing attraction on the material platform under different names. That will be failure. [break] Dr. Wolfe is missing that evolution? Paramahamsa: Dr. Wolfe? Is he missing the evolution? Prabhupada: He was speaking biological? Paramahamsa: Yeah, I think he was not understanding it so well. Prabhupada: Means his understanding, that biological, not ours. Paramahamsa: Yeah, he’s thinking biological evolution instead of transmigration of the soul. [break] Prabhupada: …go-kharah. Anything evolving on the bodily concept of life, he remains an animal. That is the defect of the western philosophy. [break] …philosophy, the dog’s tail. He is always this way, material way. [break] (yasyatma) buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma-idya-dhih yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13] Go means cow; kharah means ass. [break] …also nowadays it has become a fashion to keep dog. Bali-mardana: Yes, and to put stool on the sidewalk. Wherever there is dogs, there is stool all over the sidewalk. Prabhupada: That is the modern civilization. They are avoiding cow dung and associating dog stool. (laughs) This is modern… Cow dung is so beneficial. That they are avoiding. And they are associating dog stool. The dog mentality. The master and the servant, and the, er, dog, both of them watching. The master writes by signboard. What is that? “Keep away. Private property.” And the animal also making, “Gow! Gow! Gow!” Both of them are dogs. He is making “Gow! Gow!” by signboard, and he is doing it as nature, but both of them are dogs. One is two-legged dog, another is four-legged dog. Siddha-svarupa: Man keeps dog as an extension of his doggish mentality, as an extension of himself. Bali-mardana: The dog… Sometimes the dog and the person, they look the same. Siddha-svarupa: They look alike. (laughter) Prabhupada: Eh? Siddha-svarupa: It’s often seen that an owner of a dog looks just like that particular dog. They look very much alike, and they have similar personalities. Prabhupada: Yes. That’s a fact because the subtle body is doggish and he is going to be a dog next life. Tad-bhava-bhavitah. Because he is always thinking of his dog, always, therefore he is going to be a dog. Bali-mardana: By association. Prabhupada: Yes. Sangat sanjayate kamah. The desire becomes according to association. Ambarisa: Everybody that’s walked by today has had a dog. (laughs) Prabhupada: Oh, why you are laughing? [break] …two without association of dog. They have developed that consciousness, dog consciousness. [break] Bali-mardana: …thinking when the dog has to pass stool ’cause then they have to take him outside. [break] Prabhupada: [break] …the statistics, how many dogs are there in the United States? Siddha-svarupa: Yes, there are. There are more dogs than… Prabhupada: Than human being? Bali-mardana: No, no. Siddha-svarupa: I think there might be. Bali-mardana: There are many millions, though. Siddha-svarupa: Maybe dogs and cats combined. [break] Bali-mardana: The people, they feed their dog and cat so much food that millions of human beings could be fed from the food. Because so much grains are required… They feed them meat, but so much grains are required to produce that food. Siddha-svarupa: More money is spent on food for dogs in the United States than for babies. Prabhupada: Accha? Siddha-svarupa: Yes. [break] In the recent food crisis in the United States, 18% of the people started eating dog food because there’s so much… They use such high quality beef and based on so many grains and everything. And they use grains themselves. Milk products. [break] They’re even learning how to eat dog food. [break] Prabhupada: …dogs in the beach, you cannot walk without seeing dog. More footprints of the dogs than human being. [break] Siddha-svarupa: …actually give dogs more rights also, in a sense. For instance, if you… [break] …and a human being, every time you walked, if there was a human being yelling at everyone who walked by and was going, “Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! You get away! Get away! Get away!” then soon the man would be arrested for being a nuisance or a threat to people. But a dog is allowed to do that. He can stay there and yell and yell at everybody… [break] Prabhupada: (in car:) …and Russian, they are different country. Chinese, Oriental; Russian, Occidental. Siddha-svarupa: Yes. Like all Occidental countries or at least in the United States, there is the philosophy that, if you have sex, that your sexual energy will not be lost. In other words, their feeling is that one doesn’t lose his health or strength from having too much sex or from using his sexual energy, whereas the Chinese, they are very… Everyone in the society for centuries and centuries have accepted that even for physical strength and, mental strength it’s very important not to… Prabhupada: Indulge in sex. Siddha-svarupa: …indulge in sex so that it’s just a cultural thing that they actually try to control that just for health and mental power, whereas in the west the leaders and the people in general… [break] Prabhupada: …and because they indulge too much in sex, therefore they cannot understand. That is the proof they are fools. Siddha-svarupa: Yes. [break] …control themselves. The colonialists will go in and… [break] Prabhupada: Unless they are taught about spiritual attraction, everyone will be finished. [break] …very childhood they should be given spiritual education. [break] …by repressive method you will never be successful. Siddha-svarupa: Yes. Repression is also due to frustration. That they can’t convince someone… [break] Prabhupada: Russians are doing that by repression. Siddha-svarupa: Yes. Then whenever their back is turned the people do something else. Or they will stab them in the… [break] Prabhupada: They do that? [break] Leaders? Siddha-svarupa: Yes. [break] Yes. So the only way that they can attract them is to just let them free in the school. But I said that… [break] Prabhupada: I have seen in the Hawaii University, all hippies. Siddha-svarupa: Yes. In Hawaii it’s very loose. For instance, even the high schools, they’re mostly very loose. But when, after it gets too loose, then the students go so much into sense gratification that then there becomes… [break] Prabhupada: …solution, they will not take it. Siddha-svarupa: Yes, because it would mean they would have… [break] Prabhupada: He is very intelligent. Siddha-svarupa: He speaks straight from his heart so you can… [break] …that Yogi Bhajan’s philosophy though. He wants everybody to come to the… [break] Prabhupada: …is responsible for the mistake of the followers. Siddha-svarupa: Yes. So now he must have many leaflets printed up with this information about the prime minister’s guru. But now it’s out of date. It will be out of date. He will have to print new thing. Prabhupada: He was distributing leaflet like that? Siddha-svarupa: Yes, literature inviting people, you know, about the conference. [break] Is Canakya Pandita widely available in India? Prabhupada: That is not very important thing. It has nothing to do with spiritual…, but moral instruction. Siddha-svarupa: For ksatriyas? Prabhupada: No, for everyone. You can get from India, Canakya Pandita. It is called Canakya-sloka, “Verses composed by Canakya,” Canakya-sloka. [break] …western country, they have come to a stage in which by nature they are now seeking after some spiritual importance. And that is available in India. But these rascals, they are taking advantage of it and exploiting, this Guru Maharaja, these yogis, these… But these people, western people, they are searching after this. So it is our duty especially to give them the right thing. They are searching after, and they are taking advantage of it and exploiting them. [break] …is one of them. Siddha-svarupa: Yes, that’s why they’re not allowed in the United States. They’re not accepted as… [break] Prabhupada: It has gone to India. [break] Yogic asana exercise is very popular. They think it is spiritual, exercising the body. [break] Siddha-svarupa: This way is longer. You have more room to keep walking. That way you have to stop after awhile. Prabhupada: Harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam [Adi 17.21] [break] …them something substantial. They are eager. This is the proper time. By nature the turn comes. [break] …brahma-jijnasa. [break] “…drinking. No dog.” This is our principle. [break] “…smoking.” [break] …don’t say anywhere, “No illicit sex.” That is allowed. Go on with it. [break] Tomorrow we shall come for morning walk? No. Manasvi: You’ll have to leave the temple about 8:00, before eight. Devotee: 7:30 Siddha-svarupa: There’s time. There’s time to take a walk. Srutakirti: You would have to take massage in the morning, so I don’t there would be ample time. Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Writing advertising, “World famous…?” Devotee: “World famous steak and lobster.” It’s a restaurant. Siddha-svarupa: It’s different advertisement. [break] Here it is not allowed, so the companies are going to use cars. Prabhupada: [break] …the samosa? Devotee: Lilananda. Prabhupada: It is very nice. Why don’t you make it in the morning? Devotee: For breakfast? Prabhupada: Yes. [break] …khalu sarvatah syat. Visaya means sense enjoyment. Now, that boy and the girl, they’re taking dogs. The dog is also male and female, and the man is male and female. So visaya means sense enjoyment. The sex enjoyment is both; the dogs and the man, they will have. But the man can get Krsna; the dog cannot get Krsna. That is the difference. Visaya, that sex enjoyment, is available both for the dogs and the man. But the man can achieve Krsna; the dog cannot. That is special. Visaya khalu sarvatah syat. [break] …of eating, sleeping, mating. That is available in every life. [break] …another passage is there in Prema-vivarta, janame janame sabe pita mata paya: “In every life, one can get father and mother.” Krsna guru nahi mile bhajahun re bhai(?): “But Krsna and guru cannot be had in every life.” That is only in human life. Otherwise, as soon as there is birth, there is father and mother. Either you become human being or tiger or snake or bird, the father mother is there. But the spiritual father and Krsna, that can be obtained in human life, not in every life. janame janame sabe pita mata paya krsna guru nahi mile bhajahun re bhai.(?) So we should take full advantage of the human life. That is civilization. And in sense gratification it is not civilization; it is animal life. [break] …for sense gratification. This is the modern civilization. [break] …nice place is made for sense gratification. And as soon as you perform kirtana, the police will harass you. This is civilization. [break] …nice place, there should be so many temples. People will come early in the morning, take bath in the sea, go to the temple, have some spiritual inspiration. That program is there. And running. The dog is running and the man is running. [break] This sense does not come that “The dog is running; I am also running. Where is the difference between him and me? She has got a female mate; I have got a female mate. Where is the difference? How I am civilized?” That, this sense, does not come. [break] …thinking, “I have chained the dog, but I am not chained.” But you are chained by maya, invisible chain. That he does not know. He is also chained. [break] …maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [SB 7.9.43]. Maya-sukhaya. [break] …peacock? No, cranes, sarasa. [break] …football? Football ground. Devotee: Soccer. Prabhupada: Soccer or football? Manasvi: Football, that’s football. [break] Prabhupada: No, rugby is different. Siddha-svarupa: Football they call soccer here. [break] Prabhupada: …men in one party? Manasvi: Eleven. Devotee: Did Krsna play that? (laughter) Prabhupada: Hmm? Unless Krsna played, how you can play? [break] …play is very popular in India, and rugby. What is that called, rugby? Manasvi: No, that is hockey. Prabhupada: Hockey, hockey, yes. [break] Upendra: (in car:) …a recipe for these potato patties. What was that recipe again? Potatoes and then you mentioned some… Prabhupada: Sabudhana. [break] Siddha-svarupa: From observation and experience, I think that there’s a higher rate of sickness in the temples than outside the temples, than the normal population for some reason, and I was wondering what could be done to bring this down. Like I know every time I’m living in close quarters, for instance, here in the temple I get some type of flu. And I can think of what it might be, but I think that in many of the temples, from what I’ve experienced, there seems to be more sickness. I don’t know whether it’s… Prabhupada: For you or for all others? Siddha-svarupa: Well, I know myself for sure. But I see a lot of other people always… There seems to be epidemics always going around or something. Manasvi, what do you think in the Honolulu temple? Prabhupada: Manasvi is not sick. Manasvi: No, there is not anything like flu or anything. Some of the devotees have like chronic diseases. Siddha-svarupa: But in general. Manasvi: I have rheumatism, you know. That is from the beginning. Some people are like that. Honolulu temple is not so sick. Once it happened about three months before. At that time I was told it was all over happening. But no, generally Honolulu temple, there is not much sickness. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu